Forums Feature Suggestions More colors, instead of K0-15/16

Think theres 16 colors, but anyway. Im sure this has been requested befor, or maybe not, but id like to see more colors, or a way of combining colors to allow those already 16 colors to make basically any color. like "k3/4,0/0" where / combines the two seperate colors. I know it seems like a waste, and i relized only those with mIRC could see it, but it would be nice if that existed. Or something along the lines of that, basically i just want more colors.

So aside from the fact that i sound like some 10 yr old girl who wants pretty shades of pink, is it possible? if it is, think it would ever be added?

And a side note, are requests actually being taken? I admit i dont read the changelog of mIRC every version, well i skim through it to see if its relivant to my coding style, but are the hundreds of requests, if they are even possible, even considered?

Indeed, you may wish to use the search feature for other posts requesting more colours and see what other people's points of view on the matter are. If you don't know already, there is a (type of) colour wheel in mIRC that you might like to use: Press ALT+K and right click one of the colours. Then click on 'Define Custom Colors > >'.

Khaled does read all (or at least the vast majority) of bug reports and feature suggestions. He very very rarely reveals what will be included next version or ever in the future, so it's unlikely you'll receive a response. It could be several versions before a feature is incorporated - it is of course possible some suggestions will never be incorporated - perhaps it Khaled just doesn't like the idea?

Regards,

do other people over irc see those custom colors? Thats what i want, not so much you seeing w/e colors you want. Thanks

Nope, ALT+K colours change how you see text. Yanno, most people can't stand people talking in colour, using colour codes can clash with some people's backgrounds (either make your text horribly bright or invisible), annoy others or get you banned from channels. Why force others to see your text in a different colour? *shrugs*

Regards,

You can have the almost every colour in mIRC, the limitation however is on the quantity, you can only use 16 colours at anyone time.

i.e.

//echo 2 This is dark blue.
//color 2 $rgb(255,179,236)

Will firstly, echo a dark blue line, then it will replace the darkblue in your palette with RGB value '255/179/236' (a pretty pink).

Use, /color -r 2 to reset it back to blue.

Eamonn.
Eamonn.

lol yee who cast the first stone shall be banished into the world of... colors :tongue:

This is not for my benifit, i run a multiuser MuD through dcc, and the whole game including many parts inside text is customizable for the USER, so the USER can tell the game to send messages to the USER in a specific color, so this is for the USERS BENIFIT. The reason im asking is cuz many different events in the game can be customizable and it would be cool if they could have different colors. But basically everyone has a desired theme more or less, and in the given color scheme there is only a small number of colors that work with the users color scheme. Like me personally, i use default colors, i cannot stand K11.

So if my USERS like blue, i was hoping my bot could send them text in many blues, assuming they set it up in the ColorCP section of my bot ofcourse.


So again, this is for my USERS benifit, not for the sake of using many annoying colors in channels. Dont lump me with those idiots befor you have all the facts, thank you very much

I was not lumping you with any 'idiots', I was asking why you need to force others to see colours, and now you've explained, no need for rudeness (:

Anyway, personally I'm not for more colours, I think the majority who use them, use them excessively (like in automated scripts that enter rooms and say '<ascii crap> I use Walaikum Script 2K4 <ascii crap>', and adding more colours would make them even more colourful. For personal use I strip a lot of colours, but I do care about what channels I'm in have to put up with in general too. Also, as someone who had to use ircle every weekend for months I know how frustrating mIRC colour codes can be interfering with general chat, so to add even more...

My 2 cents

Regards,

Ya i fully understand your point of view on the matter. The few always ruin it for the masses

Hmmm.. anything that parse rgb colors creating a 'stantard' would be useful, and a option that transforms automatically rgb colors in irc 4-bit colors (transforming into the closest color) will make who don't liket this feature happy

and maybe a $rgb2mirc(text) and $mirc2rgb(text), both like the $ansi2mirc(text)

but i am not sure what standard would use..

It wouldn't make it much worse imo, considering some of mIRC's default colours are pretty bright and annoying (^8 for example), I think irc client developers should just add ^<rgb value>, and maybe khaled could add a feature to strip rgb ranges, so you can strip out 155-255 (dark red to light red) for example.

that sounds like a great idea! That way everyone wins, stripping out annoying RGB color ranges makes everyone happy, you still get color you like, none you dont. Plus i can use it for my needs, yay. All i know is RGB colors would vastly increase my MuD's looks. Allowing for basically unlimited combinations so you dont have two messages the same colors.

or transforms the 155-255 range into the "normal" red, that is not very bright

That is one of the most silliest suggestions I've heard in a long time. Forcefully strip out a range of 'colours' just because you don't like them or find them annoying? Not only does this discriminate against many people, but there are still uses for 'bright' colours. I bet you use a white background? Or white somewhere? That is the brightest colour (I know it's not a colour, don't start on that) you can have. Also ^8 looks perfectly fine on a black (or another dark) background.

You do realise that there are 3 ranges, red, green, and blue. Just because 1 of these ranges is above 155 doesn't mean the colour is bright. Even two of them below doesn't mean it. There are plently of shades of gray which are useful above in these ranges. And we've all lived with the 16bit palette for many years without too many issues, many of these colours which would be deemed as 'bright'.

Just out of curiosity, why does it bother you if I strip certain colours on the client i'm using? I'm not saying he shouldn't add certain colours to mIRC, i'm saying you should be able to strip rgb ranges if you don't like a colour in that range, that's a perfectly reasonable suggestion to me.

In other words, i'm saying he should add full rgb support, but he should also add an option to strip colour ranges (like $strip(), but to strip ranges, not all colours).

Edit: yeah I know there are 3 ranges, but 155 ($rgb(155,0,0)) is dark red, and 255 ($rgb(255,0,0)) is light red.

well, each user will strip/change the colors as he/she wants - if you do not want strip any colors, that's fine. it would be a feature of the mirc, not a standard. the standard should be "all users see all colors", but some people will want do not see some colors.

Oh. I thought you meant Khaled would hardcode that colours in those ranges wouldn't be displayed. Disregard.

no, it would be scripted or setted by mirc options. (or both)

maybe a new control code, like R that you would give it the RGB color codes after it? Rxxx,xxx,xxx

the only problem is.. not everyone uses mIRC and those users that didn't would see a bunch of crap text added in. (As mentioned earlier, if ASCII isn't enough for script makers ) I think if more colors were to be added, it would have to be a shared standard between the different clients that use color codes and such.

ctrl-r is already a control code that reverses colours.

the other clients can implement this, i think that it's not very hard

and, can be ctrl+c, that opens a window of "choose any color" instead of only 16 colors =)

--

but i think that it should be talked with the admins of main irc networks and write a RFC, because it would be a new irc standard (like dcc or ctcp)

Having 'RGB' colours (by which I assume people are talking about 24-bit RGB support) isn't suitable to a run-time environment. I've already made this statement half a dozen times in threads exactly like this so instead of repeating myself: here's a link.

Huuuuuuuuuum.. ok, there is problems in implementation of a new standard for irc colors; but what about an meeting with the main clients delevopers and main irc networks admins? its sounds crazy for me, but the ones who have the 'power' to made changes on irc maybe like this idea; and, hum. maybe an new mode (like +C or +R) can be realesed, and if it are not setted on by the client the ircd will strip the rgb colors, for some months (or years) until it becomes standard - so users that do not have an early version have nothing for lose, anyway

and, about the difficult of remember rgb codes, when i type ctrl+c should appear the character for rgb color and a window named "select color", with a full select color pallete (basically a plane and a line, just like the windows color select), so the final users should dont worry with the codes

(i decides to reply in this post because it's more recent; but by the way, the forum should organize the order of post not by it's creation date; by it's date of last post, instead)

all i know is id like the option for my scripting, you guys can fiddle with everything else all you want lol.

And as for other users on IRC, well fiddle sticks to them lol. Its the users choice to use a color system that they may not be able to see. But overall, personally, im suprised it was limited to the color system it is now for so long, i know its just colors, but still, why limit when you dont have to lol.

And i kinda agree with the opinion that a full range of colors wont make a dif, when i think about it, K8 vs some bright RGB color dont really matter to me. But at the very least, maybe i could get some love from Khaled and make it a DCC only option, that way i win and everyone else can stick with their boring color system hehehehe. But i doubt such a thing would ever happen hehe

Bersirc has the availability of the 32 bit colour range for local GUI use, the same as mIRC has for it's border colour choices. Sadly Khaled has not extended this to cover events on the screen and nickname list colouring.

I see no need to extend this to information transmitted to IRC though. Remember that most clients base their colour capabilities on 'mIRC compatability' so there is a standard in place which has stood the test of time. Given that half the colour range is barely readable on the screen anyway there's really no point in extending the colour choice beyond 16 for chat use. Many busy rooms also ban the use of colour anyway, either by +c or a +b.

ya most rooms ban it, so why complain :tongue:. And its only "barely readable" if you use a white background. Unfortunetly i doubt such a nice little feature will be added due to the masses who are doomed to live life inside the colorblind box. Aparently walking and chewing gum is easy but reading and seeing color is not, go figure :tongue:

The way i look at it is,
You have a argument ofcourse:
A. Abuse of colors to annoy people
Answer: Well your all ready annoyed, is it possible to get more annoyed lol? I personally dont see the dif, and dont try to say i like colors, I chat the same as you scaredies, colorblind :tongue:

B. Theres too many colors already!
Well i dont see that as being nearly true, colors along with everything else is an option. All of you have the ability to keep colors 10 feet away from you. So use it :tongue:

C. Another Control Code or a change in the current Color Control Code will bring an end to IRC and the internet itself, bringing chaos to the world and reducing us all to infints allowing the true rulers of earth (Ants) to reign supreme!!
Well you yourself (You being the previous post) said that mIRC is used as the standard, if it changes, others will follow. And seeing as all the none mIRC users would be annoyed if their software didnt change, well id assume they would change.

D. The current system is a tried and true system, it stood the tests of time so why change?
Well hey, i see your point. I mean that makes so much sense to me im selling my car and using nothing but my feet, afterall man kind used them for so long why upgrade? And omg, im never going Cable, im sticking with 56k thank you very much. Theres no need for more speed. Hell with that reasoning you wont make it far in life if you cant upgrade now and then. I understand constantly changing is no good, but were not constantly changing the color system now are we?


And theres my argument:
A. It will make me happy, wee! :tongue:

- Just because something can be turned off doesn't mean it should be added. By your thinking if I suggest that we make a control code that makes other user's mIRC's close down it should be added. After all, people who don't like it can just turn it off right? My point is that something must have a valid and widespread use and be an improvement over any existing features. The ability to turn something off is not a reason to include a 'feature'.



- IRC was completely different a decade ago. The number of users was probably around 2-300,000 users at most and only a couple of dozen IRC clients and IRC libraries with no specific accepted colour standard. By contrast today there are millions of IRC users and literally hundreds if not thousands of IRC clients and IRC libraries and mIRC's current colour scheme is widely accepted as the standard. Simply changing mIRC will not convince all those thousands of developers to immediately change their programs to follow suit, especially considering that for many platforms 24-bit colour is impossible.



- The examples you've listed are all things which are improvements. I've yet to see anyone explain why 24-bit colour is an improvement, whereas I can think of half a dozen drawbacks to such a system. Use the Search feature and take a look at the other 20 or so threads that have been made about colour. It's getting really boring having to make the same points every 3 months.

Because it will support a greater range of colours, simultaneously and independent of a users custom colour settings and any 'standards' that are associated with the current range. Tah-dah! Perhaps it isn't an improvement *to you*, but the fact you find yourself making the same points is probably a good indication it is to others.

/me gets a profound sense of deja vu

- Why not support 48-bit colours then? Hell, lets go for 1024-bit colour, because hey, more is better! What's the point of having a greater range of colours if half the people you chat with can't see them because of limited colour displays or incompatible software? If colour support were to be extended it could be done to prevent major incompatability by utilising the remaining 83 colours of the double digit format. That way it would provide enough colours that people wouldn't need to change the display of any colour, it would display just fine on limited-colour displays (older computers, PDAs, mobile phones, etc.), and it would actually be practical for IRC.



- This forum gets thousands of visitors a day. One thread every three months or so hardly constitutes an overwhelming demand.

Again, clearly it isn't an improvement to you. You seem intent on painting anyone that wants this changed as a zealot.

If compatability really is an issue to you, why do you insist mIRC lock itself into a future-incompatible scheme? One that, if extended, suffers the same inherent flaw as the old system? But hey, more is better, right?

I'll see your 1024 bits and raise you 16.

[edit]

And I wouldn't want to ignore your other point:



Compared to what?

- Well it confounds me that there are people who would sacrifice compatability and therefore the ability for clean and clear chat between all IRCers for the sake of seeing an ASCII picture of a rose in the perfect shade of vermillion instead of just red. Isn't forsaking the main function of IRC for their own niche use an act of zeal?



- Assuming it were put up to 99 colours (0-98) using the double digit format, why would a future extension be necessary? I'm pretty sure humans aren't going to evolve so that they can see infra-red of ultraviolet within the lifetime of IRC, so if 99 colours created a reasonable level of colour accuracy why would that ever need to be extended further? I can understand to some degree that 16 colours might be frustrating for some since some fairly simple colours are not available, however I cannot see how 99 colours is not enough.



- I'm saying that if we guess that 50,000 unique users visit this site and one thread gets made about extending colours in that time period in which perhaps 2 people come out in favour of the idea, that's 0.004% of the users of this site who really feel strongly that more colours should be added. Even if it's 1000x as many people it would still be the vast minority.

Same post every few months, guess that means no one wants it. The reason it is an upgrade is you get more, more options, ect.

But eitherway, as i said, go live life colorblind i dont care. Its a simple thing thats made to be such a big deal, i for one am not going to fight for it like you fight against it. I have yet to understand why everyone is so deathly against it... or lemme restate that, a reason that makes sense.

But as i said "i doubt such a nice little feature will be added due to the masses who are doomed to live life inside the colorblind box". So w/e, in the coding aspect i drool over the thought, iv the theme aspect i drool over the thought, in my simple default font and white background i still drool over the thought (shades of blue! wee), but ppl are afraid of simple change, and for good reason. After all, it is change right? Change is evil! :tongue:

Or maybe they have read these threads befor and relize it is a pointless effort to try and improve mIRC and IRC itself due to people like you. I would love to see IRC go more mainstream due to all the teeny boppers with their Aim and MSN.

Dont try and take the unvoted and make them on your side. If i wanted i could make the same statement because they havent all posted on how to use irc that none of them use irc. Or because they have stated an opinion on liking irc they all hate it.

I'll believe they dont want more colors (whatever they may be) when all 50,000 post against me. So go you freedom fighter, speak for the unspoken for to justify black and white! POWAH TO DA PEOPLE!

hehe

I'm sure he could keep the current system too, then let you choose which one you want to use.

- I never said no-one wants it. 'More' does not equate to 'better'. Haven't you ever heard the phrase "less is more"? Lets add an option that allows you to make all the vowels on the page flash blue and red when I press F12, more is better after all.



- Which reasons don't make sense? The fact that 24-bit colour won't work on low-colour displays? The fact that the average person doesn't know and doesn't care about RGB colour values and wouldn't have a clue what colour AE564B is (nor shold they have to)? The fact that it's completely infeasible to expect people to type 6-digit codes while chatting in order to make a colour. The fact that breaking compatability with thousands of peices of software hurts IRC as a chat medium (you know, that little thing known as it's *purpose*)? Which of these reasons do you not understand? Which don't make sense? Please tell me so I can explain them better for you.



- Right. I disagree with one thing that you suggest with half a dozen reasons so obviously I'm against all change as a rule. That's 100% true. I'm against everything but the norm. It's clear that you've read all my posts and understood them correctly because you have summed me up perfectly. Well done.

- See my post above where I congratulate you on your sterling pschoanalysis. Just out of curiousity, what the hell does AIM and MSN have to do with IRC?


- Read what you quoted again. I never said anyone was 'on my side' or that everyone who didn't post a thread like this was against extra colours. I said "that's 0.004% of the users of this site who really feel strongly that more colours should be added.", as in the other 99.996% of users don't feel strongly that more colours should be added. Nowhere do I say that they're against extra colours.

Yes but that still doesn't help John_Smith using non-mIRC 6.2+ client who starts seeing ab2f5eh0a3498eaf6829lab2f5el9087d3o there appear on their screen because their software doesn't support it.

Who cares?

If there's a newer version of the software available then you should either upgrade or put up with any compatibility issues you have.

If you're talking about a different client, not a different version, then the same rule applies, they should update their software or put up with the issues.

It's like people complaining about mIRC 6.03 being affected by the dcc exploit.

- People who use IRC to chat.


- Why should any other software have to follow pseudo-standards made by a single random peice of software?

- If client developers cared enough about their users, they would gladly update their software to suit the users needs, and extra colours can only help chatting (providing there is a way to strip them too).
I would much rather read something in turqoise (not on a white background, though) than plain old black or blue - I know I can change my own colours, but i'd rather see the colours people are using.



- They shouldn't... unless they want to keep the compatibility.
Saying he shouldn't add it because it will break compatibilty is silly, if you thought of everything that way then nothing would ever change!

Ah yes, F12, well we all know if microsoft did that they would FORCE you to press F12 and use it :tongue:

As for everything else, aparently im not being literal, im trying to prove a point. But w/e, im busy and dont care as you have your opinion and i have mine. I happen to like it, you dont. Simple as that.

- Well my need is to chat, not draw ASCII pictures, therefore my needs are already fulfilled. How do more colours help chatting?


- That's the most ridicuous thing I've ever heard. If I make a client and make a control code that makes my client play the Village People - YMCA should mIRC and every other client support the same for compatability? I've already pointed out a way that things could change and retain compatability, use the existing system's remaining 83 colours, it'd even have turquoise just for you. And notice that compatability isn't the only thing wrong with it, I keep listing several serious problems with 24-bit colour support.

- ASCII pictures aren't the only thing extra colours would be good for, they would also be useful in making themes.



- It's like a newspaper, I find tabloids much more interesting because they aren't as dull and plain as broadsheet newspapers, more colours would make mIRC a lot more interesting to look at because it's not as plain and dull.



- If they don't mind seeing your control codes in the text, then no, otherwise, yes.



- 99 is plenty of colours, but it's still no way near as good as full rgb support, you still can't know whether the colours you're seeing are the ones the person sending the message is seeing.



- Like I said, allow people to choose between the two colour systems, and if somebody decides to use the old system then it shouldn't be too hard to strip the new colours, he could even change them into normal colours:

New colour system user sees: ^k16777215hi
Old colour system user sees: ^k1hi

Or even strip them completely.


Anyway, I don't care whether you can send and receive full colours across IRC, i'd settle for full support on your side only, eg, being able to /echo any rgb colour you like without having to change an existing colour using /colour.

It's like a newspaper, I find tabloids much more interesting because they aren't as dull and plain as broadsheet newspapers...

I like broadsheets better because there is more politics, business and news and fewer ads per square millimetre than tabloids have. There is also less journalistic diatribe from freelance columnists who consistently seem to have an opinion on everything.

That aside, it is a source of amusement for me that this thread contains so many posts carefully disected and commented on in order for you all to make yourselves appear more correct than the poster before you, and all over the humble addition of a few extra concurrent colours.

Overall id happily agree with mofia in the fact that 99 colors is plenty. Would support my needs fully. However RGB support would be nice also, as it is another option, expanding the ranges of "things possible" lol.

Expand it to 99 colors and im amazingly happy, for my needs it would work perfect.

However i think adding RGB support is great too, atleast rgb for echoing, for use of themes and whatnot, as tidy pointed out.

What feature request do you feel is in "overwhelming demand"?

I can understand your frustration having to make the same points over and over. I've already explained that some 'other' changes to mIRC would allow greater flexibility here, but that I don't think expanding to 99 colours will suffice (How is that zealous?). You've explained why you think it's a bad idea, and that you think 99 colours will be ample. See where I'm going here?

I feel like this has become an argument for arguments-sake (just like the last thread), so I'll contribute nothing further. I'd completely understand if you feel the need to reply to this though.

- None especially. Although Unicode support will benefit a lot of users, even though many don't realise it yet.

I agree there's little point for us to carry on in this thread, I think everyone's said their peice and anything more will be well beyond the realm of useful discussion.