Forums General Discussion 6.11 worse than 6.1?

Is it just me, or is 6.11 even worse than 6.1? It still has bugs, for example the "script editor" button on the toolbar still wasn't fixed, 99% of suggestions that were "claimed" to be added in 6.1 still aren't added (though the website still says that it addressed "most" requests), and NONE yes that's right NONE of the changes that we complained about in 6.1 were removed/made-optional, they all remain. But Khaled, you've out done yourself, I didn't think anything could be worse than 6.1 but I guess you just couldn't pass up an opportunity to prove me wrong...

Well seeing as how Khaled, in my opinion, no longer gives a damn about what the mIRC users want, guess it's time for me to start looking for a new client... Maybe if others do the same, he'll actually start listening to people again.

* codemastr waits for this post to be deleted.

This posting is not even worth replying to.

Well then why did you?

Rather than find another client, how about writing your own? I'd be happy to beta test it if you released it on Linux as well as Windoze

Because I don't have much free time or else I would.

Build atop of an existing one. Most of the work has been done for you that way. I'd love to have a 'lighter' graphical IRC client than xchat. And if you really wanted a challenge, you could try and make it mIRC script compat.

I say do it. Incorporate the features you want to see in a client

As I said, I don't have time. Plus I'm already looking at other clients and I already found a couple that I kinda like...

Shame. Never mind

no need to be so ignorant about it

ignorant about what?

your original post.

Sorry, I don't like spending good money on something that the author couldn't give a damn if were happy. So rather than remain an mIRC user (remember, if everyone says "that sucks" and continues to use it, nothing will change, think MS), I've decided the only way to get my point across is to not waste my time with mIRC. He doesn't care if I'm happy, why should I use his software? Like I said, if others do the same, maybe things will change. If not, well at least I'll be happy since I'll have a client where the author actually listens to people.

Do as i did.. stick with the nice mIRC 6.03, the best version of mirc "so far", and i hope that Khaled will make a new version that will look like the older one cos it's nicer.. I dont know why everyone asking for "new" fetures", it's great the way it was..

first person: id like <some feature!>

khaled adds it..

second person: id like <some feature removed!>

whats khaled to do?

------

first person: id like <some feature!>

second person: that isnt a good idea because of <this, this and this>

whats khaled to do?

------

first person: id like <some feature!>

second person: great idea!

khaled cant manage it/get it right

just a few reasons why he cant add everything people want..

Yes I did stick with 6.03, and, I was hoping 6.11 would be the one with the "older style" but it wasn't, so I'm guessing, that means Khaled has no intention of changing it back. Not to mention I don't like the fact that I'm running 6.03, a version with numerous bugs. I don't intend to, when 6.5 comes out to be sitting around saying "I'll use 6.03 for one more release, and maybe 6.51 will change it back." If he was gonna change it back, my feeling is he would have done it in 6.11 since so many people complained.

i prefer 6.1
im aware of 'many bugs', but i still havent found a bug in something ive needed to use yet

Who asked Khaled to redesign the mIRC toolbar?
Who asked Khaled to redesign the mIRC menus?
Who asked Khaled to redesign the options dialog?
Who asked Khaled to resize all the buttons?
Who asked Khaled to remove the "hide about" window?

I don't remember anyone asking for any of those. Also, what's wrong with optional things? mIRC has a "visual styles" section doesn't it? Why can't there be a "[ ] show grip bar on the toolbar" "[ ] show grip bar on the switchbar" etc.?

maybe he got bored of the old look and decided to make a new one?
he still might change it back, i dont think waiting 1 version for that is a sufficient amount of time to decide "he isnt changing it back"

maybe a bug fix of the "older" style, then let ppl DL the style they like best? and i cant say i have found any "dangerus" bugs in 6.03, and what i feel its more stabile then the new version "6.1", when i tryed the new version i had 10x more connection reset by peer and other problems.. cant say about 6.11 tho, and wont be able to say cos i wont be using/testing it :tongue:

"There also was an irc:// link overflow, which has also been fixed..." that's from Krejt's post on 6.11. To me, that sounds as though if someone sets up an irc:// link just right, and you click it, it creates a buffer overflow. That sounds pretty serious to me.

...and again you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. And instead of asking what might be the case you suggest it must be something pretty serious...

Frankly, I no longer want to tolerate your senseless discussions on these message boards. I'm sick and tired of your sour comments, demands and rants. Go away and find yourself a better place, a better IRC client, a better life - I don't care, but don't bother me with it.

I already have, bye! Too bad there's no way to delete an account, maybe you'd rather just ban my IP so that you never have the possibility of hearing from me again? I mean that's what you abusive moderators do, right?

Bye!

heh, cheap shot ;p

Well I assume you won't be replying to this what with the melodramatic *exit* and all but still... you're complaining that Khaled didn't fix all the things that we (read: you) wanted fixed, instead he only fixed some bugs and added a few new things. So if so little has been fixed or changed in 6.11 how can you claim that it's worse than 6.1? Even if you still don't like it, the fact that 50-odd bugs have been fixed is surely a step in the right direction? The way that you're so quick with the stupid proclamations of *worst version ever* etc. just goes to show that you're just looking for something to whine about and the constant claims of *moderator brutality* got old after the first post, and got just plain monotonous after the 11th or so. Why keep on about it? It's a freaking messageboard.

GUI grips. *gasp*
Other non-descript additions to 6.1 not removed. The horror!
etc.

exactly what i was thinking.

*rolls eyes*

I upgraded to v6.1 and will be upgrading to 6.11 too when I get back to my Windows PC. I don't see why people can't be happy that the text gets to the other person - isn't that what it's all about in the end? Grips, $ bugs and all that other bunkem, I really, truly couldn't care less about - and I wouldn't blame Khaled or Krejt for not caring about it either heh.

Sure, I can't lie and say I think 6.11 is perfect, because it's not - but what is? (apart from codemastr, of course *wink*). I mean, the whole moving the Options popup to the "Tools" menu, and moving the Perform section...*shrugs* - It just takes time to get used to. 2-3 years down the line, everyone will be so used to doing that they'll not want him to change it back!

I wish codemastr the best of luck in his future IRC life, with his client that will be cared for by the author. I'm sure that will make ALL the difference. :tongue:

Happy chatting!

Regards,

"Because I don't have much free time or else I would."

tell that to your 3000posts

Why? It took a month and a half to produce another buggy, lacking version. Yeah, 6.1 took a year, but at least it had some new stuff in it. This took over a month, and still not everything is fixed. Even things that have been "fixed" are just broken differently now. For example the /fwrite -n was "fixed" to report the "correct" value. In 6.1, it always returned 2. In 6.11, it now returns actual_value-2. A simple test should have shown "hmm I'm writing 4 bytes, and it says it wrote 2... perhaps something is wrong here." To me that shows either a.) lack of testing or b.) lack of caring. Then we move on to /hdec. In 6.1, the function of /hdec was changed so that if the variable doesn't exist it initializes to -1 (just like dec) [btw this was something requested by users]. Now in 6.11 it was changed back to initializing to 1 claiming it is a "bug fix." Well then why was it added in the first place? It wasn't added accidentily, it was added because someone asked for it to work like that, and it specifically says that's the new functioning in the 6.1 versions.txt. Again, simple testing would have shown that the problem was actually not fixed. Then in versions.txt I see "17.Fixed Control+KN color bug when N was larger than 15." could be just me, but any number > 15 that I enter still results in black, not the actual color like it did in pre 6.1. Additionally the same oddities that it had in 6.1 are still in 6.11, ex. type /echo 31 test (it prints test in white), type /echo ctrl+k31 test (it prints test in black). Shouldn't color code 31 be the same in both cases? And again, in 6.03 it would have displayed in light gray. Again, simple testing would have shown the problem was actually not fixed. Those are just some examples, I'm sure as time goes on more problems will be found. This goes back to, as Tjerk liked to put it my "ranting" and "demanding" about knowing about the beta testing process. Shouldn't someone have realized "it says A is fixed, yet A is not fixed, either 1.) actually fix it or 2.) don't lie and say it is fixed when it isn't." If I managed to find that all those bugs still exist after playing with 6.11 for less than 30minutes, how come the beta testers couldn't find them in the month and a half since 6.1 was released? It doesn't seem like there is a problem there to you?


Bugs that I wanted fixed? Half of them I didn't even report:
-Received files folder toolbar icon doesn't update if you change the received folder via alt+o, drop down menu will still say $mirddir\sounds
-"grayed text" was renamed "gray text" breaking all MTS themes
-ctrl+break and ctrl+scrollock don't work correctly under WinXP
-Pressing f in a window that has no editbox no longer triggers the find dialog
- Received files folder toolbar icon doesn't update if you change the received folder (for sounds) via alt+o, drop down menu will still say $mirddir\sounds
-$decompress can crash mIRC and/or the entire PC
-$dll(file.dll,function,) no longer works

I didn't report any of those. While yes, I do want them fixed (just as I'd want any bugs fixed in any program), I'm sure other people want them fixed as well, or else the people who reported those bugs wouldn't have bothered reporting them, would they?

As for leaving, I am reconsidering leaving the forums. This has nothing to do with me, it's for the simple fact that I've received a few PMs now from people who actually value what I have to say and have asked me not to leave.

Dude, if youre worried about the look, ask Khaled for theme support! I want mIRC to look more like bitchx anyway.

Answering your subject, no, it's not, it currently can't be (less than 1 day to judge the entire release?), regardless of what you say. Go hunt a reasonable number of annoying bugs, find them and then mIRC 6.11 could have a chance to be worse than 6.1.

To me, this is more a freaking bugfix release than anything. Right, it didn't fix all the bugs yet. For example, I still can't use 16+ colours, they're still all the same as the earlier 99. Well I guess I'll abandon mIRC because Khaled doesn't care about me anymore? Argh, come on.
"OMG, the lack of options is still there, Khaled doesn't care about us!!!!"? "Oh the gripes!!!!"? "Oh the button!!!!"? After a lot of fixes, which you probably didn't even test yet, you're just filtering what's not there (yet?) that you insanely bring up as major flaws. Reading your rants, it seems to me you're just looking for them.

New features? Yeah, like we should expect anything completely new after such a bugged version that was 6.1 (LOL, a "better" 6.1, btw.. sorry, this is laughable).

Good luck with a new client.

Theme support has been suggested enough times already, I doubt my asking for it as well would make it actually happen.

i for one would hate to see codemastr leave and not like my opinion matters at all about mirc , seeing as i am a paying customer and all but im going to stick with 6.03 as these newer updates are completely useless. so what it fixed a exploit in userhost..... i dont go to anyones server that it would be an issue mIRC has taken a sorry turn in my opinion and if there was something better for windows at this point i would switch...... all we ask for is that the improvements actually be improvements, not what they have become

My concern for your well-being deepens. I have calculated it, and assuming you do take days off now and then, it's safe to say that you are posting about 10 posts/replies per day. You are a [censored] loser.

Thanks, your opinion means a great deal to me. I'm sure you've learned a great deal about me and these forums, enough so to make such a judgement... in the one day that you've been here.

Hrm, regardless of my strong disagreement with what you said, I think I was unnecessarily harsh on my last reply and I don't want to take it to/participate of any useless arguing or anything worse like name calling (which I've just read now) etc. My apologies for that.

Whilst it cannot be denied that codemastr does have the ability to be intelligent, because he has come up with some strong arguments in completely unrelated threads, you, _D3mon_, and codemastr are both, quite simply, whining about nothing.

In fact, this entire thread seems to just be a repeat of the whole "6.1" thing and it's simply tedious. The moderators will simply see this as lame posts going nowhere, especially as that kiddo had to swear in his last post for some reason.

And also, it's not just about you. *I* don't want this, this bugfix doesn't affect *me*, *I* wouldn't be affected by this bug, *I* asked for this to be added, *I* want this, *I* don't want that, *me* *me* *me* *me* *ME!* O.o
There will be however, hundreds of thousands of users who DO upgrade to mIRC v6.11 because the bugfixes *do* help them, and they will actually LIKE the added features. And this has been passed off as a bugfix version far too hastily. Just because it's called v6.11 and not v6.2 doesn't mean it's just some lame version - new features have been added after all.

To be honest, I can understand why the Moderators/Admins may take a dim view of this thread, it does simply look like childish, out-of-control bickering about absolutely pointless things.

Just don't be so selfish, and instead of whining, stay with the version you like the best, or use another IRC client. If there is nothing better for Windows, stop the whinging and get on with it - Now THERE'S an idea!

Regards,

No need to appologize, I wasn't offended by it in anyway, my posts on this thread wheren't exactly "friendly" therefore I wouldn't expect everyone to reply in a friendly manner. But I would like to point out, that already a few new bugs were found in 6.11, and bugs that were said to be fixed still aren't, and old bugs still exist. Also, the only reason I brought up features was because Krejt did. Read his post announcing the release, "Several new features and functions have been implemented" I don't see "several" new functions and features. I see 5 new features. The language selection in MS agents, the password@ in irc:// links, nick-list-hiding, $sorttok 'a' option, /echo -c. Krejt also says that selecting multiple channels from the favorites folder is a "feature" however I consider this a bugfix since pre 6.1 you could do this, then it was removed in 6.1. My point is though, would you consider 5 to be "several"? 64 changes, 5 new features, that doesn't seem like "several" to me. Then on the mirc.com mainpage (which I assume is also done by Krejt) "With this new release we hope to address most the comments, requests and remarks we received after the release of version 6.1" With the exception of 2 of those 5 new features, it seems all the "comments, requests and remarks" that were addressed were bugfixes, although there were a great deal of comments, requests, and remarks that were for feature suggestions that were ignored. My whole point of bringing up the lack of new features was because according to Krejt, there are a bunch of new features, and it certainly doesn't look that way to me.

Well, it is just a bug fix release. That doesn't make it Lame though. I prefer bug fix releases, With additions here and there, rather than waiting for a major version, which takes months and months, and includes all the bug fixes and new features at once.

Well, I don't know about the other ones. I say it seems a bugfix release because of the several fixes declared on versions.txt, against few small additions and some behaviour changes. That's all, nothing lame. But while it's not some lame version, it's not that new as well.

Well before this thread gets closed (it probably will), I would like to say something as well.

The Bug Report forum lists down many many bugs, you can't expect Khaled to read them all. He did fix some of the bugs in the Compiled thread though, give Khaled time.

I am sure, you will get used to the new toolbar icons in time. I have gotten used to it.

Grayed text is Gray text because grayed isn't even proper spelling.

But I agree Grayed text should be left behind.

You said that you are too busy to write a client, have you ever thought of Khaled? He has a life too. He probably goes out like anyone does. Working on mIRC is just his hobby, at the same time making money.

And, if you want to leave, no need to tell us.

Let us not forget that in the process of fixing those bugs he introduced approximately 5 new bugs.


I doubt it, if I ever do upgrade from 6.03 (which is doubtful) it will only be after I complete the dll I'm writing that will remove all the little 6.1 "fixes." I've already gotten the menus back to the way I want them, next step is to change the toolbar.


Well "grayed" is a word, if something is "grayed out" it means it has been made gray. Therefore "grayed text" is text that has been made gray. I.e. it is different than just "gray text." Gray text is the color you get ctrl+k+14, that's gray text, "grayed text" is text that has been made gray due to being disabled. In any case, this is where backwards compatibility comes in. When $paraN was removed, it wasn't like "*poof* $paraN gone $N appeared." $paraN first became deprecated in versions.txt and people were told to use $N instead. Then, several versions later, $paraN was gone. Why couldn't the same happen here? "grayed text" still works, but it is deprecated, then, say in 6.2 it is completely removed.


Well according to Khaled, it is NOT just a hobby. He specifically states in his FAQ, "mIRC is the way I make a living." Just as I don't feel "sympathy" for Bill Gates, nor towards the guy who packs my bags at the grocery store for not having free time, I don't feel bad for Khaled. He's a businessman, and he's in the business world, if you can't keep up, then you aren't successful, it's as simple as that as far as I'm concerned.

Btw, if I felt I were able to make the money I assume he makes from mIRC (basing this on the numerous pictures he has from all his travels all over the world) I'd find the time to make an IRC client.

Well dispite what people think, that I'm sitting at my PC 24/7 just monitoring these message boards, that's not true. When I post during the day, I'm usually at school. That means either I have maybe 5 mins in between classes, or in the case of boring classes, I wind up on here and chatting during the class. Overall, during the week, I'm probably online maybe at most 3-4 hours a day, and maybe 1-2 hours of that is doing homework. Then, when I do get some free time, I have other projects. I work on UnrealIRCd whenever I get the chance, then I have my new project SolarStats that's been eating up a decent amount of my time. And more recently, I've been trying to submit some patches to the java IRC client called PJIRC (mainly to try and enhance my Java skills). Then even more recently I've been contributing to a project called cURL and a related project of expanding the MIT ares library. Then, in my spare time I try to come up with suggestions/bugs/fixes for a regexp library called TRE. When you take all that, add in the fact that I (try to) have a social life, it doesn't leave me with much free time at all.

Believe me, I'd love to write an IRC client, I think it would be a fantastic learning experience, it's just well... that's not gonna put the food on the table, and therefore that means it has to be low on my list of priorities.

It put food on Khaled's table.

And yes, contrary to your oh-so busy life, you spend 12 hours of it on these forums daily.
If you would like I'll plot a graph of your posting activity showing just how evenly spread you are across all forums and all hours of the day and night. Then we'll amplify that graph by 200% since you claim the moderators delete half of your posts.

You average 15-25 posts a day, and have 37 today alone.

That translates to at LEAST a 100-500 lines of code per day.

- Raccoon

OK, fine, if it is not just a hobby. But he does have a life.

Anyway, I've never seen gray text before, when is it used?

It's inevitable to introduce bugs while fixing other bugs, give Khaled time.

Furthermore... (but not to distract from my last post)

You keep bitching that Khaled should put out *immediate* bug fixes addressing security issues... and when he does this, you complain that he didn't address EVERY bug no matter how minor.

Make up your mind.

Did you want Khaled to put out a fast fix for the USERHOST overflow?
Or did you want Khaled to work on the other bugs for another N months before putting out a release?

- Raccoon

He is certainly not spread evenly over all hours of the day and night.

I made a graph out of his "show all posts" page (changed the number in the URL from 15 to 2880). The script only came up with 1189 posts..where on earth the rest are I don't know.



First bar is 0600, last 0500. Times are GMT-6 (in theory).

Personally I wouldn't call that "evenly spread".

Edit: While it only got 1189 posts for him, it got the right amount for others I tried it on.

So he starts posting at 9am and stops posting at 2am... sure everyone has to sleep sometime. It's still a much wider spread than he claims.

And no, I'm not arguing that 50% of his posts had been deleted (59% actually). I know they were, he knows they were, and everyone knows they were. This isn't because moderators target threads that he starts, but because he targets threads that moderators will inevidably remove... usually weeks later. But that's a different topic all together.

My point is if mr. mastr is so stretched thin with his busy life, how/ why does he still post here?

- Raccoon

PS. Could you do one of those for me?

Well I'd just like to say thanks to Khaled and Krejt for getting the new bugfix version out at all. With all the negative crap following the last release I'm surprised they didn't lose the will altogether. As far as I'm concerned, this latest bugfix release shows me that they do indeed read the forums and take notice of what's being said. So I for one would like to show a bit of appreciation for all the work that's gone into it. Sure, it's disappointing that when a new release comes out what *you* want fixed/added isn't done, but hell - you can't please all of the people all of the time, and to be honest it's the same people whining about this latest bugfix that whined about v6.1 (i.e 2 people). If you're pushed for time, why don't you join forces and make your own client? Kumbayah...

P.S. This reply wasn't aimed at you, Raccoon, I just *gasp* hit the reply button.

in 6.1 yeah

Well, when Khaled started programming his IRC client, There wasn't this thing called 'mIRC' dominating the windows IRC world...

It's very hard for anyone to make any money out of an IRC client these days...

First off "I keep bitching that" I've been on these forums for about 2 years now and ONE TIME I've said that Khaled should post security fixes faster. As you're so proud of pointing out, I have about 3000 posts, and ONE that says he should post security releases. Wow! 0.0003% of my posts are about this issue, yup it definately seems like that is the single most common thing I talk about here.

Then, (dictionary.com:immediate) "Occurring at once; instant: gave me an immediate response. "
Do you see any mention of "bug report, delete claims of bug, wait 2 weeks, then release fix"? That's not how I read that definition. I read it as, "someone posts bug report, Khaled posts reply within an hour saying 'yes it exists, I'll have the fix by the end of the day'"


Get your facts straight!


When MS finds a security hole in Windows do they say "Ok guess that means we have to release Win2004 today." NO, they say "time to release a patch." Why couldn't he have done like 99% of software manufacturers and released a little patch that would have fixed that one problem? I don't see how fixing a single bug implies a new version must be released. And Khaled must not either since he's released a patch for mIRC before to fix a single bug (versions.txt):
13/09/95 - released mIRC v3.64 patch

1.Fixes the *1-3 type bug.

Again, get your damn facts straight before you start yelling at me.

I agree, patches could be good.

*sits down*

codemaster, you know your cute when your mad?

visual styles: I'm not altogether sure, but when Khaled stopped using Borland compilable C++ and swtiched to his current compiler, wouldn't that have possibly added alot of XP related GUI code, which was 'improved' by microsoft? In otherwords the gui wouldn't look exactly the same? Hell i'm jsut taking a stab in the dark, having very little win32GUI programming knowledge.

Patches: I'd like to see a patch style system, but perhaps that would need to be a X number of bugfixes per patch - windows update hassles me for 50 new downloads every day it seems, giving me the impression that my current product(s) are broken as all hell... oh wait... windows... right.. nevermind...

codemaster: I think that your like me, having too much free time to spend on forums - 'i'll just check my email' which took me two hours one day

As for the missing of bugs in testing I think its understandable if I remember an faq entry correctly - about elements of mirc (ie scripting) being developed organically.
While I'm sure there's some degree of preplanning there's a limit to what a small team can do and keep track of - I myself have written many a program intending to do things entirely a certain way and woken up the next day, written the next element, and found I've just got two conflicting coding... dialects i suppose...

The rest of the posts: SMUH, I got broed after the first page. Nice graph work. The missing posts, probably all deleted ones :P