Forums General Discussion Petition To Hide POSTCOUNT

This thread is a petition to hide that little number that appears under our names; the Post Count.

It's increasingly apparent that certain people here either post here for the sole purpose of increasing that number, while other certain people focus all their time scrutinizing other people's posts with said accusation.

Solution: Make a user's Post Count invisible everywhere except their User Profile.

This includes under their name in Posts, and in the User List. One would instead be able to sort users by "Title" (such as stranger, enthusiast, etc). I know that UBB is fully capable of this suggestion, and it would require relatively little of Tjerk's time to implement.

Please give your Yeah or Nay or Abstain. Reason's are welcome.

- Raccoon

It seems more people are concerned about people being concerned with post counts than there are people actually concerned about post counts. I don't see why it is a big deal, I couldn't care less what my post count is or what my "rank" is. I post because I have something to say, not because I want to increase a number.

In anycase, I think hiding the post count would be stupid, it won't solve anything, pointless posts will still exist.

i post when i want to say something not to increase my count, but i get flamed for "wanting a higher post count", so i agree with racoon.

So just ignore it when people say that. If it's not true, why does it bother you?

the same reason that you misreading my post, and thinking that i called you a pervert bothered you.

Well there is a difference between personal insults and someone saying "you want a high post count." If people say it to you just say "Yup, you're right, and by replying to you I've raised my post count again!"

it is a personal insult to me because they are implying im so pathetic to care about a number displaying how many posts ive made.

Gee all this bickering over something silly...

true though.

I say no. One alternative could be to change the number to the titles like it was on the old forum. Otherwise just get over it or ignore it. Specific to your cause, you could look at yourself and that stupid picture of some git wearing panties in another post you made elsewhere here. :tongue:

I do and do not agree with this whole concept of a post count. Yes its just a number, and afteral what is it there for? I mean other than the fact of saying "i've posted XXX number of time to this forum", there's not real purpose. The fact the forum itself has "ranks" is also suggesting that the more the posts, the more helpful you are. I do believe the post counts are pointless, and somethng users may strive for, but with or wihtout a visible postcount people are still going to "go for the goal" to increase a number. It being removed infact would just makeusers become less subtle and say "look at my profile, i have XXX posts" (there in itself create yet another useless post.

I don't know, just an opinion. Remove it or not, people are still going to strive for it. Why not save an admin the trouble of editing, and just ignore the user for yourself. Afterall, you'd have to do it anyways.

It has purpose to me. When I see someone who has posted ~500 posts and asks something that is generally a "/help <something>" answer, I'm more inclined to help them more thoroughly figuring this person is familiar with board policy and therefore knows he/she should have read /help first and most likely did but didn't understand something. However if the person has ~1 post, I'm going to assume he/she didn't take the time to try and find an answer in the help file. Same goes for things like "use the search feature" if the guy has ~1 post I'll say "use the search feature" if the guy has ~500 I'm going to assume the person did use the search feature and didn't find what he/she was looking for.

You might not think thats a good reason but don't make like no one else here does that, because I'm sure many people do.

I suppose every rule has an exception, but I can relate with that. Someone with a few more posts than another use may have "Earned" the right to bypass the laymens responce and deserve a respectable answer, though there are users who have a post count consisty of nonesence and gibberish.

I personally use how well/poor a user describes thier problem and marks what steps they may or may not have already taken to answer their own problem. Such as a user with one post count comes to the board...

[Beginner; Unexperience]

How do i make mirc say something when a user type !help?

[More advanced; Still 1 post count]

I have looked in the help file, and found the on text event. I tried looking through the examples and found no help. I don't see to get what the <insert something here that pertains the the topic>. I am trying to make the <goes into a breif explination of what they would like to achieve>. Can anyong point me in the right direction to look or perhaps know any tutorials i can learn from?

The bold being the keywords. This tells me the user doesn't want it fed to them on a silver platter, but is looking to learn from the experience, and has taken the time tosearch themselves.

Again, all in the way you look at things. Everying is relative.

Yeah I agree, if seeing a small number next to someone's nick predisposes you to being offhand with them, then that is all the more reason to hide this feature. The amount a person posts means nothing. A small post count could mean the person always finds his help in the help file first.

Also the post count isn't detailed enough to assist those kind of judgements, You can't tell if a person has made a thousand feature suggestions, and only 1 helpful reply to someone, for example.

Khaled for instance, has a very low post count. Can something negative about him be inferred from that also?

Sorry, I don't agree with your classing methodology of board users. Each and everyone here deserves the right to the same answer you obviously reserve for the regulars. The postcount text is barely readable considering the font size used and is of no relevance to the quality applied to answers. The board shouldn't be used as an elite club for those that come here often.

In any case, the users here with the highest post counts such as myself, you and Parabrat are more inclined to be giving answers instead of asking questions anyway.

Very good point.

I think perhaps a user's Rating should appear under their name instead. This feature does exist as part of a user's profile, and can be added below their names when they post. If a user posts inteligently, give them a higher rating... if you don't care for them, give them a lower rating.

I just believe a person ought to be able to adjust the Rating they give freely whenever they choose. Currently when you Rate someone, that's it, no changing it. People change, and so do others' opinions about them. If you see your rating suddenly drop, you can change the way you post and watch it rise again.

- Raccoon
(Click Here and Rate Me! (just kidding))

I too am inclined to believe a rating (though it is a median of a voted number), is much better for a "judges of character" then the post count. If you see a user with all 5 starts, one could assume either the user is very helpful, and accutate in the advise they gave, or bribes all the users to vote for them >:P..


EDIT:

In addition..

"... or posts a "rate me" link in their post"

j/k raccoon

I'm going to have to agree with you here. Although I suppose this feature would be abused at a point, I think a user rating appearing under his or her name would be a better solution.

Yea, I suppose abuse is possible... especially as the boards have nearly 20,000 users, and most of them have never even posted. It's conceivably possible someone could create 100 new users and boost their own rating with their votes.

I propose perhaps only users with 10 posts or more, and registered 7 days ago, may vote? At least it would make it considerably more difficult to do, and easier to catch. I suppose it would prevent one-time visitors from rating a user who helped them, but ya can't please everyone.

- Raccoon

I propose perhaps only users with 10 posts or more, and registered 7 days ago, may vote?

and may post hyperlinks (blocking spam)

Hey, you might as well ammend the file with another option why u there, right? >:D

GENERAL REPLY:
I think the potential for abuse re the rating system idea is pretty high judging by the numerous squabbles seen on threads and would prolly just create more havoc. This isnt a contest. Regardless of any rating or post count, ppl know if they give helpful and accurate answers and so does everyone else. An op in a help channel doesnt have a tally of the number of ppl they help, they dont get a different level of ops. There are a lot of us here who would have to go look to see how many posts we have, there are others who monitor it answer by answer.

Of course it would be great if some ppl didnt spend their time (and waste others) posting just for the sake of increasing their post count, but ppl will be ppl. I suspect those same ppl, if there werent a visible count, would still be making useless posts just so they and others saw their name a lot. Just as there are ppl who think their implied worth is based on how many power swirlies (@) they can collect or how expensive their car is or where they buy clothes, etc. If the post count were hidden, i doubt it would be long before someone decided to count a persons posts and include the number in a reply in some way shape or form. Hiding it, leaving it to show only in profile, showing the "title" for number of posts or not... it isnt going to change a person's basic nature.

When i see posts like "looky looky, i have ___ posts now!!" or continuous nonsense posts or repeatedly inaccurate posts, I wonder if the person has any idea of the poor impression they are giving of themselves. A rating system would fast turn into some silly popularity contest or means of "getting even". I dont like anything that implies helping ppl is a contest. Help if thats where your nature lies. If you want to make a ton of crud posts to satisfy some need, expect that ppl will think less of you. Just consider the post count as a bit of trivia, interesting to some, of no import to others.

* Raccoon thinks ParaBrat should change her name to ZenMaster. (Edit: ZenBrat)

Your wisdom is reflected in your words. You have the Tao.

And you're right, it probably doesn't matter in the end. You can't change the nature of people, myself included. I'd like to think the solutions I make will make it less tempting to do annoying things, but there are almost certainly an infinite number of other annoying things that will occupy people's time.

Does this mean there are no changes that can be made for us, to make our world better... but only changes we can make for ourselves in how we perceive and react to that world?

- Raccoon

I post because I have something to say, not because I want to increase a number.

Is that part of your argument? There are a few hundreds or thousands of people who post, apart from you, and you must consider the possibility that not all of them are like you. We don't want YOU to stop posting, we want the people who post for the count's sake to stop. You almost sounded guilty there :tongue:

Anyway, to the point...

In anycase, I think hiding the post count would be stupid, it won't solve anything, pointless posts will still exist.

I disagree. Imo, most (as in >90%) of the junk posted in these forums comes from people who just want to increase their post count. Hiding the post count won't stop all post-count idiots but it'll stop a LOT of them. Having to wade through 20 junk posts (for example) instead of 100 is something I *could* care less about.

Raccoon's suggestion is the best idea I've seen in this forum so far, I'm definitely in favour, but I have some objections. I want the "Title" thing AND the rating system to die as well, even from the User Profile page. I don't want any of this visible anywhere. Imo, these features have valid uses generally, but not in these particular forums (for reasons I won't get into). I'm sorry that people who enjoy statistics would be disappointed, but you can't have everything.

That could be a scenario, yes, however I never said the only deciding factor is their post count. And how will hiding it stop such judgements? Ok so then I (and most people here who I'm sure do the same thing but won't admit it), no longer base it on the number, we base it on whether we remember seeing many posts by that name. Therefore it would be even less "fair" since someone may have posted hundreds of times, yet since I don't remember them, I don't spend the extra time to answer them.


Can you list me someone who has made a thousand feature suggestions and only one helpful reply? If it is a valid issue, it must actually happen on these forums. In fact, this situation doesn't happen. Seeing as how I read just about every post made on these forums, I have yet to notice anyone who has a post count of 1001 where 1000 of those posts appear in the feature suggestion forum.


Please read what I wrote not what you imply. I said a high post count makes me more inclined to help them in more detail. That doean't mean post count is 100% the ONLY factor I use when deciding how to answer a question. I never said anything like that. If I saw the person was a moderator or administrator of the forum that would clearly supercede their post count.


Oh and btw to those suggesting showing the "rating," have any of you ever taken a class in statistics? A mean average alone is useless. Ok so lets say I have 2 stars out of a possible 5. Is that good or bad? First opinion is it is bad, it's not even half. However if I add the fact that everyone except me has 1 star, now my 2 stars looks pretty good. Also, how many people voted? If I have 5 stars but only received one vote (which was obviously 5 stars) that clearly isn't as good of a representation as someone who has 4 stars but has 5000 votes. Statistical information is not a single number, it requires a great deal of information to actually be useful. If people are saying the post count is too little information to be useful, I don't see how a rating could be any more useful.

qwerty: It would perhaps stop some, but i really doubt it would stop many, there are just too many ppl who would continue to post for misguided reasons. Yes, its a pain wading thru a bunch of junk and/or irrelevant posts and i hate it when someone new tells me they used the search feature and found a bunch of bickering so they gave up. But i still think that when you have a public forum you have to expect to see ppl with diff motivations and degrees of common sense. Human nature being what it is, idiotic posts often engender several replies expressing annoyance, which only encourages the original poster to reply yet again.

Seems to me the titles are more for a bit of humour, ie "poohbah" and "carpaltunnel", but i agree that some ppl would take them as some kind of merit badge. As for the rating, i think its pretty much useless.

Altho every case is diff, like codemastr if i see a user has a lot of posts i am more inclined to feel i dont have to explain every little detail and can use more technical terminology. If i see a user has 1 or only a few posts, then i feel i have to explain every little thing to be on the safe side, for example explaining what MOTD is or detailing how to get to options. Considering the number of ppl who rudely reply that they arent an idiot just cause they only have 1 post and already know that stuff, that logic doesnt always work

Masked Critter: re your question, i recently read a comment by a Japanese official about misuse of cell phones that take pics and it reminded me of all forums, IRC and life in general. Essentially he said that regardless of technology, there will always be some ppl who lose their manners. So yes, while there are things/changes that can be done for us to make our world better, so too will there always be ppl who misplace manners and common sense. Its more than a bit unfair that the rest of the world has to be subjected to them, but thats life.

May I suggest that those who do not like the 'post count' just use a post-it note to stick on your screen where the count appears and then you won't be able to see it.

You know sometimes very stupid questions call for very stupid answers!

Simply wouldnt work what with scrolling etc.. unless yuo had a feature in your profile to "HIDE" personal postcount.

As to something Parabrat said, there definitely are levels to ops in channels..


+
% half op on some servers
@ AOP | SOP | Founder

Im not sure what you meant by there are no levels to ops perhaps ....

kupotec: sorry about that, i could have phrased that "diff levels of ops" better. my intent would have been clearer if i had said diff levels of aop, or diff levels of sop. as in you dont have aop1 who after posting a certain number of times to the channel, goes to aop2, etc, with the perception being one is better than another simply because they made the most number of comments in the channel.

ryker: the issue in this thread isnt whether one person likes to see the post count or not. its discussing if perhaps not allowing anyone to see them would cut down on the number of ppl who post only to increase their count and think quantity is more important than quality. one person blocking them from showing wouldnt do anything in that regard.

Well to be honest, I've only seen one person who in my mind, without any doubt, posted something to raise his post count... and that is the person who started this thread, Racoon. So I really don't see it being a problem.

While i dont agree with the premise that started this thread, in fairness i have to mention that i usually try to delete the "looky, i have ___ posts now!" type posts so everyone may not be aware of who posts them. Ditto for a fair number of posts that are so astoundingly illogical or incorrect its no wonder ppl interpret them as done only to increase count.

I dont think hiding the post count would put a stop to that, (honestly, i dont think anything will) but i can see why it would be so annoying that ppl would search for a solution.

and on that note... *me gives Parabrat a peanut butter cookie*

*chomp* thanks

As i browse the threads i kinda wonder. The one who started this threads marks thier post count every so often at the bottom of their post in yellow.. There's something fish about someone who makes not on post counts, and advertises it themself

I don't even know why post count makes such a hot topic here. I am a member on one called Whirlpool which has about 30,000 members and everyone there is too busy debating which ISP is better. Postcount never rates a mention.

Ah, I started that a while ago as a personal reference when I noticed that many of my posts started disappearing as threads were getting deleted... and it was messing with my head. The numbers help me keep track of how many posts of mine disappeared since the last time I checked. Honest. (I click on my View All Posts, and change the PostsPerPage to 99 (displays 100), then check how many posts appear beyond the tagged post.)

Why how many posts have disappeared is of any concern to me? I dunno. It's just nice to know that I'm not going crazy when I thought I said something and can no longer find it. This is part of the reason for my suggestion about starting a Manure Pile forum, so deleted off-topic thoughts don't abruptly disconnect sockets from my brain, leaving me disoriented and confused.

- Raccoon

I smell a rodent of some sort here. Have any of you ever read neil gaiman's american gods? If you have I think a simialr scam is going on here...

Racoon is just starting up this thread appearing to do one thing, yet quitely upping his post count at the same time. AH HAH! *uncovers the fiendish plot*

heheh

"Get rid of it" I say. I'll never catch up to watchdog. Hide my shame!

or codemastr

Nice icon. How did you set it? Here, the icon isn't a selection at the posting page.

Deletions are usually done to clean things up so ppl using the search feature arent discouraged and/or the posts/threads are a monumental waste of space. Times when i prolly wont send a pm that a post of someone's has been deleted:

When i delete an old thread cause its been repeated a bazillion times since with nothing new added (like: how do i register a nick, dcc pending)

When i delete 14 nonsense posts from a thread saying
ksjghwerio or or absurd bickering (recent example: 16 posts arguing whether fish is a meat or not) or extremely unpleasant, disgusting or incorrect

When someone is spamming or asking for a specific movie,crack, intending to only be annoying etc and i send them a pm about it instead of posting a reply, other replies telling the person not to do whatever they did go with it

When someone makes a post that HAS to be edited for content or completely deleted and the next 10 ppl feel the need to include a quote of that content in their reply telling the person they are a twit.

Offtopic: well, kinda depends. Are they a progression of thought from the original post or are they a ton of "gee im bored" "so am i" "why do bananas grow on trees" "you're stupid" "no, you are"

I see no need for a "manure pile". If they werent worth reading once, why keep them? Besides, they would just be flame fuel.

I agree. I noticed that some guys abuse from it. Some are here for more than one year, they coment almost all posts and have only about 500 post, while some others are here for 3 months and have about 1500. Something is not right...
but i am just thinking...

Having a manure pile or a mass-deletion of posts will not achieve anything to discourage people from posting just for the sake of getting a big score. When posts are shifted or deleted the score remains as-is, unless the forum software was altered to take this into account of course and that may not be desirable and since this forum is commercial software, it might not even be legal though I haven't read the licence for UBB so I am not sure on that last one.

The suggestion of a manure pile was as an alternative to existing deletions that take place. Rather than deleting entire threads that may contain some useful data when cleaning house so user Searches return more refined results... these lesser posts could be moved to a sanctuary where they can be referenced without frustrating users who don't want to wad through all the off-topic chatter.

However, a Manure pile is designed to dissuade users from useless posts, by having their posts immortalized for everyone to read, rather than having them silently deleted.

- Raccoon

I'm not so sure it's a good idea to have a 'manure pile' either. I sort of agree with the logic, but I don't think it should be implemented for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it would cause the moderators an awful lot more work - and they'd have to decide which posts went there. That would mean wading through a ton of bs since last December. Then there would be people whining "I made a valid point and my post's on the manure pile". Which would just create more of the stuff - because people wouldn't be able to help themselves from responding. In my very humble opinion, we should just get over it and let the moderators get on with silently deleting rubbish posts. Anyone who comes here will soon know who to take advice from, and who to roll their eyes at and ignore cos they're spouting rubbish again.

Altho i try to cull useful posts and lump them together in one post with each name included, in most cases there's just no need to. For example, Howard makes an idiotic post, Joe,Fred,Sam, Ernie, Dudly and 14 other ppl reply telling Howard its an idiotic post. What sense would there be in saving any of them if the original post is gone? Suppose in the middle of all this Frank and Jesse reply with something new, relevant to the topic and useful, i would create a post copying their posts, attributed to them.

As for 20 posts on a thread about perform that has wandered into Boredom Central and is basically "ok, im bored" "yeah, me too" " ", well sheesh, meet in a channel someplace to chat, it doesnt need to be here whether its in a manure pile or not. And I really see no need to try to embarass someone by putting their posts in a "manure pile" and i really doubt it would "disuade them from useless posts" anyway. Suppose a user posts a horribly incorrect answer, and 3 ppl tell him so, while 1 person gives the correct answer. Do we really need to leave anything other than the correct answer anywhere on the forum? No one is perfect.

When "cleaning house" in old threads, i dont delete something that hasnt been posted in at least one other thread, be it by the same person or someone else. Honestly, do you think we need 75 posts containing only: "How do i identify" "Use the search feature" just so someone can go back and see that they told someone to use the search feature?
And Poppy brings up a good point. I get enuf pms now without adding "how dare you put my wondermous post in the manure pile." "hey, so-and-so had a stupid post, move it to the manure pile".

Honestly, i think we give y'all a lot of leeway, it sure isnt like we delete every offthread post by a long shot, only when it gets way over the line. Altho we arent perfect, I think its rare that any "useful data" thats only in one thread is deleted.

I think the whole concept of a "manure pile" defeats the purpose of this forum, which is to help users. How would they be helped by reading bickering, insults, general nonsense, incorrect answers or 47 threads saying the exact same thing? As for subjecting someone to ridicule by putting their post in a manure pile, that is totally against what helping is all about. While a somewhat harsh answer may be called for occasionally, thats a far cry from ridiculing someone for the entertainment of others.

All very good points.

I suppose I'm just a pack rat by nature, but I agree with your views. Consolidating frivolous posts does help bring forward more useful posts, and such an archive of retired posts would be difficult to maintain.

Not all ideas are good ideas.

- Raccoon