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mIRC Servers list #266257 30/10/19 06:54 AM
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eahm Offline OP
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Criten merged with Rizon, irc.criten.net > Rizon if you want to check. Just fyi. Thanks again Khaled for cleaning all that.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: eahm] #266258 30/10/19 12:41 PM
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Khaled Offline
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Criten merged with Rizon

Thanks, it does look like several networks have merged. My test script checks for network names, users, SSL validity, etc. so hopefully it has spotted all of the network changes.

I have made several more changes to the servers list for the next beta:

First, extra server addresses have been removed from the entries of DALnet, GameSurge, IRCnet, QuakeNet, and Undernet. All of these now list a single round-robin address.

Second, all servers were tested for SSL +6697 connections. Servers that have valid SSL certificates have had their ports changed from 6667 to +6697. That said, I was not able to test every server on each network, and it is possible that some servers on a network might not use valid SSL certificates. For now, DALnet, Freenode, OFTC, and Rizon have been changed to use only a +6697 port, as well as around forty other smaller networks.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: Khaled] #266260 30/10/19 11:45 PM
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eahm Offline OP
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I can also prepare a list of the IPv6 addresses (round robin normal hostname not IPv6 IP) of the biggest networks if you're interested.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: eahm] #266263 01/11/19 06:01 AM
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eahm Offline OP
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I guess no one only has IPv6 yet and those can resolve to IPv6 addresses as well, better to not create even more mess, nevermind that suggestion.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: eahm] #266264 01/11/19 07:33 AM
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Khaled Offline
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Thanks but let's hold off IPv6-specific addresses for now. Changing to SSL is a big enough, and more important step, for now.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: Khaled] #266267 01/11/19 10:25 AM
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Following up on this:

Out of the 150 networks currently in the servers list, only four of the major networks have proper SSL support. Forty of the smaller networks have proper SSL support. And sixty other networks have SSL support with invalid certificates. The rest do not have SSL support.

I am considering making mIRC prioritize IRC networks that have proper SSL support, ie. when a user first installs mIRC, mIRC could choose a default network from one of the major networks that have proper SSL support. Currently, there are only four: DALnet, Freenode, OFTC, or Rizon.

Re: mIRC Servers list #266270 01/11/19 05:43 PM
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eahm Offline OP
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I guess defaulting to freenode could be a good idea and the only good option here from the list. I personally don't like defaults on anything, I like to start empty and I am sure most of the older IRC users do the same but also I don't need the server list either so, the general user comes to check freenode.

OFTC is too specific just for FOSS, freenode is more general, DALnet has a more focused demographic, Rizon is an awesome network but just too weird and full of warez for a default pick.

I personally don't like this one (nor freenode) but should't Snoonet be considered as one of the major networks around today? They also have a valid cert.

The invalid certificates are just been reported as invalid but most of them are self signed, still valid for an encrypted connection of course.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: eahm] #266284 04/11/19 12:02 PM
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Khaled Offline
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Thanks for the feedback.

There's a good discussion on Hacker News about IRC over SSL in response to an old QuakeNet article.

The culture shift to using IRC over SSL is slow but definitely there. It may be that newer networks are leading the shift, as new administrators take it for granted that SSL is a basic requirement.

There's no doubt that transitioning an existing, old, large IRC network to SSL is a challenge. But it should be easier than it used to be, now that free Let's Encrypt certificates are available.

In any case, the Hacker News discussion makes for good reading on the challenges, justifications, and so on.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: Khaled] #266288 05/11/19 05:06 PM
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Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: Khaled] #266289 05/11/19 05:24 PM
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Khaled: Are none of EFNet's servers properly SSL certified? Or are you only including networks with a proper maintained DNS round robin that reliably connects to an SSL capable server on a predictable port, using a common network-name domain name for each server?

One of the issues with the aforementioned networks is that they're typically administrated by a central authority or monarch with both first and final say in the running of all things and even the creation of channels or nature of allowable speech. All the other IRC networks are community effort adhoc peer networks with a very different ecosystem and chat experience. I don't know that these latter networks should be relegated as second-class no-go zones.


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Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: Raccoon] #266290 05/11/19 07:28 PM
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Quote
Are none of EFNet's servers properly SSL certified?

As far as I can tell, the EFNet servers that support SSL all use their own self-signed certificates, some of which expired a few years ago.

Quote
Or are you only including networks with a proper maintained DNS round robin that reliably connects to an SSL capable server on a predictable port, using a common network-name domain name for each server?

All networks are included in the servers list.

However, networks that use valid SSL certficates, ie. signed by a recognized certificate authority such as Let's Encrypt, match the hostnames in the certificate, have not expired, and so on (basically, what you would expect of a valid SSL certificate), have had their ports changed from 6667 to +6697 in the servers list. There are currently forty such networks.

For example, DALnet recently added SSL support to their network via their round-robin irc.dal.net, using Let's Encrypt certificates that match all of the hostnames on their network.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: Raccoon] #266291 05/11/19 10:43 PM
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eahm Offline OP
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Oh I agree completely on the second part, I don't personally like freenode or Snoonet for the exact same reason, I'm almost exclusively on EFnet and I check 2-3 more occasionally but you can't deny EFnet is a weird place for a new user or for a default connection and freenode is more of a general use network, programming, projects, online prohjects, "new things" etc.etc.

We were only talking about the certs and it seems the EFnet ones are all self-signed, doesn't bother me but they don't show the green icon, a new user may check on that and may see mIRC as a lesser client if it suggests a network that doesn't even have a valid and signed SSL cert.

I was only suggesting freenode as default because it's the more general of the list if you can even call it that way, users that look for EFnet (or IRCnet, QuakeNet, Undernet...) know how to connect there and don't really need the servers.ini.

Re: mIRC Servers list [Re: eahm] #266331 16/11/19 08:24 PM
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I have updated servers.ini to use Snoonet instead of OFTC as one of the default networks, as Snoonet is a more general network suitable for most users. Snoonet also uses valid SSL certificates, so it will default to port +6697.