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A cargo cult of Twitch botters? #251810 04/03/15 11:54 PM
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Raccoon Offline OP
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Does anyone else feel like this sudden drive by Twitch.tv users to create bots is borderlining on a cargo cult? Most users don't seem to know what they want from a bot, what a bot even does, just that they need to have one.

And it should be as simple as cobbling a few bits of randomly copied code, paperclips and a little chewing gum, right?. An mIRC bot should turn their Twitch channel into a 5-star Emmy-winning broadcast that attracts the attention of millions, yes?

Cargo cults are the African tribes that saw the pale men call giant metal birds out of the sky, and all they needed to do was build a runway and a hut. Maybe we can make our own runway and hut, and suddenly all sorts of metal birds will come out of the sky for us, too, bearing wonderful gifts of food and cloth from far away lands.

Does anyone have some paperclips and old chewing gum? I need a Twitch bot, fast!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #251811 05/03/15 12:25 AM
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pball Offline
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I haven't commented on or helped in any of the twitch threads, but I agree the forums seem a bit over run by twitch. I know I haven't been too active on the forums compared to the past but something about all this twitch stuff doesn't really help that.

Raccoon I'll call Macgyver or the A-Team, I'm sure they could build an awesome bot from paperclips and old chewing gum.


http://scripting.pball.win
My personal site with some scripts I've released.
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #251813 05/03/15 01:14 AM
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Wims Offline
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I don't even understand why you would take the time to make such a post.
Don't like people asking about script for a bot? Then don't look at them, the fact it's related to Twitch does not change anything, there is nothing wrong with them asking questions, who do you think you are to come up with this?
Is this just a weird rant? What's your point? Are you suggesting Twitch related question should be banned?


Looking for a good help channel about mIRC? Check #mircscripting @ irc.swiftirc.net
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Wims] #251814 05/03/15 01:16 AM
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Raccoon Offline OP
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Read my post. My point is something along the lines of...

Perhaps Twitch users reading this might think twice about trying to spruce up their chat with gimmicky automated greeters, responders and enforcers, and instead try working on quality original programming and video content that will attract users to actually WATCH their channel.

People have 0 viewers and think that bots are their meal ticket to a gravy train of subscribers.

This is reminiscent of Runescape opening its in-game chat to IRC, and everyone felt like they needed a dice roller in order to be the most awesomest guild captain there ever was. They will follow me into battle and we will be victorious, but first I need a dice script! (has 0 guild members)


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #251820 05/03/15 02:02 PM
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Wims Offline
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It's not that I disagree, this simply doesn't belong here, yesterday it was dice script, today it's points script, tomorrow it will be something else, so what? As long as there will be people to help these users with doing what they want (and by nature, there will be), it won't stop.
It is obvious that the majority of these users are not into programming, it's not mIRC responsibility to do anything if they use "gimmicky automated greeters, responders and enforcers" instead of working on "quality programming" (this is non sense, if they are not into programming, they can't come up with quality scripts, you can't be surprised about that) or if they think this is their "meal ticket to a gravy rain of subscribers" which is why this post/thread doesn't belong to the mIRC forum imo.


Looking for a good help channel about mIRC? Check #mircscripting @ irc.swiftirc.net
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Wims] #251822 05/03/15 02:59 PM
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Raccoon Offline OP
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Consider it helpful advice intended to dissuade future generations from entertaining these dumb and frivolous ideas, and instead to approach how to become a successful channel, guild, broadcast video stream through meaningful effort and less gimmick.

I actually see it inappropriate to "enable" users down the dark path of bells-and-whistles gimmickry as it affects the total user experience of other mIRC users and other Internet users in general when these memes catch on. Most of us are ourselves grumpy by the obnoxious behaviors that go on throughout IRC, yet we go ahead and teach people how to become that annoying netizen.

This is a public service announcement.


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #251823 05/03/15 03:42 PM
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The users you're trying to address are not interested in such 'advice'. Just ignore them.

Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #251824 05/03/15 04:25 PM
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FroggieDaFrog Offline
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The thing is... Twitch has given mIRC an influx of new users. IRC has been in decline for years now and suddenly that's picking up because of sites like twitch that offer an IRC chat interface to their websites' chat.

Such interfaces lead users to researching IRC and eventually they end up at mIRC.

These users find out mIRC can automate tasks for them, hosted by them, the way they intend such tasks to be done. So they start asking questions, see what other streams have, and try their hand at a new craft. Why are you adverse to that?

Most of the users I've worked with on these forums and off don't believe a bot will suddenly make their stream ubber popular. They believe it will help retain users and rightly so, assuming the bot does as it should.

I'm not sure if you were around per 2k, but these forums were PACKED with similar cases for one thing or another. Some of the users duct tape code together, but most are willing to learn if you point them in the right direction. And I don't mean a reply of simply "/help ..." but rather walk them through the process.


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Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: FroggieDaFrog] #251825 05/03/15 05:51 PM
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Raccoon Offline OP
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Indeed. And I didn't say all users, just most of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that scripts and bots are inherently bad things, and yes I've been around since '97 and I've seen it all. And yes, I do my very all to provide the best support I can for all users so they might learn and become a member of the community themselves.

What I am observing is a cargo cult that has exploded because a very few, very successful, Twitch channels (that were already very successful for a long time) had decided to build useful bots for their stream's chat, and so everyone else thinks they can become those guys. Through some magic and emulation, they can slap together a triggery doodad script that's going to distract their audience long enough to forget what crappy video feed they're watching. That their audience won't leave out of boredom... if only they had a bot to entertain them. Really that's what I'm observing in the wild.

It's pretty much the same syndrome of new users on their first day of IRC asking how to start their own channels and build an empire when they haven't even mastered the /join and /me commands.

Advice to new Twitch users: Focus your energy and create some excellent video content, before asking how to create some silly script toy, and subscribers will come.

It won't be easy, and most of you will fail. There is real effort and endurance required. Not script hokey pokey.


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #251830 05/03/15 09:17 PM
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Majeye Offline
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Why the hate on Twitch users at all?

Next year it'll be a different site's users requesting information on how to program a mirc bot for their site..

year after that, it'll be something else.

shouldn't you be happy that people are trying to find help at all regarding mirc and programming in general?

If you don't want to help them; fine; but leave your negativity at the door.

Originally Posted By: Raccoon
Indeed. And I didn't say all users, just most of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that scripts and bots are inherently bad things, and yes I've been around since '97 and I've seen it all. And yes, I do my very all to provide the best support I can for all users so they might learn and become a member of the community themselves.

What I am observing is a cargo cult that has exploded because a very few, very successful, Twitch channels (that were already very successful for a long time) had decided to build useful bots for their stream's chat, and so everyone else thinks they can become those guys. Through some magic and emulation, they can slap together a triggery doodad script that's going to distract their audience long enough to forget what crappy video feed they're watching. That their audience won't leave out of boredom... if only they had a bot to entertain them. Really that's what I'm observing in the wild.

It's pretty much the same syndrome of new users on their first day of IRC asking how to start their own channels and build an empire when they haven't even mastered the /join and /me commands.

Advice to new Twitch users: Focus your energy and create some excellent video content, before asking how to create some silly script toy, and subscribers will come.

It won't be easy, and most of you will fail. There is real effort and endurance required. Not script hokey pokey.


A lot of people want their own bot, because it makes thing easier on them while streaming.. not because it is supposed to bring in more viewers. (if a streamer thinks a bot is going to bring them viewers, they're already doing it wrong anyway)

Last edited by Majeye; 05/03/15 09:18 PM.
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Majeye] #251832 05/03/15 09:34 PM
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Raccoon Offline OP
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There is no hate in any of my posts. Only love.


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #252115 22/03/15 09:02 PM
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UnDeadPuff Offline
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[rambling]

A bot on a channel doesn't make you successful in all of a sudden, but it does help with the process of growing your channel. You have a point system? Users will stick around, even if at first the awarded points are useless, just to boast later that they were there 'from the start'. Random users will start coming by too and hanging around for those points and whatever else. Twitch has a feature called 'hosting' which allows you to host another channel on your own, for your viewers. You can offer this service to friend streamers, and in exchange get the same service offered to you (I do that all the time, and it worked nice so far). Having a bot with interesting commands/systems in place can and will determine visitors and users to hang around even when you don't stream for the sheer amusement of chat and mentioned commands.

But yea, I don't agree on the mentality of some (don't think majority) new streamers that a bot will make them famous. I for one saw it in someone's small stream and, noticing the point system, decided I want one too. Then other commands came in... and it just became fun to program the bot to do stuff I want it to.

[/rambling]

Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: UnDeadPuff] #252120 22/03/15 10:22 PM
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Sakana Offline
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In my experience, a good bot WILL make your stream significantly more popular. You just need interesting or useful commands, and not some lame stuff. Though, when starting out it's hard to write commands that aren't stupid and pointless. You should probably keep those to yourself and just use them as practice :p

Re: A cargo cult of Twitch botters? [Re: Raccoon] #252130 24/03/15 01:30 AM
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OrFeAsGr Offline
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The problem is not those who try to make bots for twitch the problem is they dont use the search machine or dont use it right.. to find what they are asking for which 90% is somewhere in this forum. So we see simular posts every now and then which look like...: "i want a bot that does that and that and that and pls someone make it for me" ... It would be better for those users to either search more before asking.. Anyway.. I'm just mentioning something i noticed since i registered here.. no offensse.. no hard feelings, twitch users! <3