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#24334 16/05/03 01:24 PM
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Nutrimatic drinks dispenser
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Some other "hidden" stuff

$nopnick(#, N) - return number of non-ops on # (if N = 0) or the Nth non-op
$nvnick(#, N) - same as above, but exculeds in addition to ops voice too

#24335 16/05/03 01:32 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Both of those identifiers are undocumented because they're deprecated in favour of $nick().


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
#24336 16/05/03 04:53 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Why do you people want to use undocumented features so much? Perhaps there is a reason they are undocumented. Maybe they don't work well, maybe they will be gone in the next version. I remember when I wrote a program that used some undocumented windows functions, then when XP came out my program stopped working alltogether, why? MS decided that the undocumented function I had been using was no longer needed, so they removed it. There is generally a reason some things are documented and other things aren't. Especially when it has been brought up numerous times that these things are not documented. If Khaled wanted them in the docs, don't you think he would have done it the first 10 times these were mentioned?

#24337 16/05/03 05:47 PM
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Hoopy frood
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If Khaled wanted them in the docs, don't you think he would have done it the first 10 times these were mentioned?

Are you sure he would do that for every case? How can you rule out the possibility that they are left out because he forgot about them, neglected them or simply didn't have enough time to polish up the documentation? There are other reasons I can think of too, but this is not the point here.

And even if it is as you say, so what? What if all this undocumented stuff is not working perfect? What if they are gone in the next ver? I don't know about you, but I'm not using mirc to control my nuclear reactor. If something breaks in the next ver, I fix it. Scripters that release their work can simply write a patch/update.

To answer your first question (although the answer should've been obvious to you), I use some undocumented features because they suit my needs and make my life easier. I believe lots of other scripters do that too. For example, should I forget about $nickmode because it's undocumented and instead write a script that parses 005 and stores that info somewhere? If you want your script to "always work" (there's no such thing anyway) don't use these features. But the fact that other people are willing to take that "risk" should not be surprising to you.


/.timerQ 1 0 echo /.timerQ 1 0 $timer(Q).com
#24338 16/05/03 06:39 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Do you honestly think he forgot about $true and $false? Maybe about half of the scripts pasted on here use those. There is no way he could have forgotten they exist.

Quote:

For example, should I forget about $nickmode because it's undocumented and instead write a script that parses 005 and stores that info somewhere?


Well thats what I did, $isupport(token), it determines if the token exists, and if it has a value the value is returned. I'd much rather use that than rely on something that may suddenly disappear.

And it isn't suprising that people use it, it's just stupid imho. Consider /setlayer. I make a script that uses setlayer. My users love it, they love that you can make it transparent, and everything. Now 6.04 comes out, and /setlayer is gone. Users complain it doesn't work anymore. I can't simply "code a workaround" because there is no workaround, the feature is gone, now I am forced to remove a popular feature of my script. I don't consider that to be a good thing.

#24339 16/05/03 07:46 PM
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I parse 005 myself too .. for the same reasons .. so I wouldn't have to fix it later lol .. plus there's a lot more in 005 than just prefix & I wanted to be able to have it all.

Last edited by r0ck; 16/05/03 07:48 PM.
#24340 17/05/03 08:44 AM
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Vogon poet
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Anyway, of these, $* is probably one of the most useful undocumented features - which should be documented.


trenzterra
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#24341 17/05/03 11:25 AM
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Fjord artisan
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If that's the case, don't use anything in mIRC.

Because heaven forbid, $version might just suddenly dissapear, or $hfind, or anything else for that matter.


You do make a valid point that they may be undocumented for good reasons, yet I think you would also be a little more open minded to other possibilities, such as Khaled forgetting to put them in, or not having time to do so.

I know for sure I have a really hard time trying to remember every single detail about my script, and I also know that there are some things in my script that I purposely don't document.

Be a little more open minded smile


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mIRC - fun for all the family (except grandma and grandpa)
#24342 17/05/03 01:25 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Remember I posted $inpaste. It's a function that Khaled kindly implimented becasue I asked him to. It has been around since about 5.7ish and has never made the help file. I don't see $inpaste suddenly disappearing in the next version, simply because it's still undocumented. Not without taking $ctrlenter with it.

- Raccoon


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
#24343 17/05/03 01:33 PM
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Hoopy frood
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$inpaste
Returns $true if a user typed Control+V or Shift+Insert to paste text into an editbox, mainly useful when processing an on INPUT event. laugh

/help Other Identifiers


Code:
//if ( khaled isgod ) echo yes | else echo no
#24344 18/05/03 02:12 AM
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Hoopy frood
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touche.
*grumbles at Tjerk for not including it in the search list, or with On INPUT*

- Raccoon


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
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