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A new look for mIRC... #120711 21/05/05 03:14 AM
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I propose a new look for mIRC... mIRC still seems like a terminal (old school). I think mIRC should have a user interface simular to yahoo messenger, AIM, MSN Messenger, Camfrog. I so want to see a treeview structure to organizing windows/channels/messages/transfers/etc... Without have to use a DLL and 500 lines of script code...


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120712 21/05/05 03:23 AM
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If you're talking about a treeview switchbar implemented, this has been suggested many times. What you could do (before or if it is added) to free some room up on your switchbar is if you're on 3 servers, with 5 channels,sends/gets,@winows on each server hold down the Alt key and single click the Status Window. It then hides all the windows associated with that connection, holding down Alt and single clicking again "ungroups" them so they're all visible.

-Andy

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120713 21/05/05 03:41 AM
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Quote:
mIRC still seems like a terminal (old school). I think mIRC should have a user interface simular to yahoo messenger, AIM, MSN Messenger, Camfrog.


What's wrong with old school? mIRC seems to me like a
stout, robust IRC client and I would hate for it to be
changed to appear like a cheesy Instant Messenger
in any way.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120714 21/05/05 03:51 AM
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I'm also talking no parent container all windows open on desktop... a channel window doesn't need to be open in order to be joined to the channel... the window can be opened later and the channel log used to fill in old messages...


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120715 21/05/05 03:52 AM
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Are you still running Windows 3.1 too? smile


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120716 21/05/05 03:56 AM
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Nope, XP Pro with all the pretty crap disabled. smile

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120717 21/05/05 04:00 AM
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Yeah they need a book for XP... "How to disable all the crap microsoft enables and how to enable the crap you really need but microsoft disabled, for dummies"... smile


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120718 21/05/05 04:03 AM
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lol yup, it's funny how all the unnecessary crap in XP is
enabled by default and everything else is enabled when
it should be disabled or disabled when it should be enabled.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120719 21/05/05 04:08 AM
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Nice tongue twister there (slightly off topic)...


* Andy attempts to utter "everything else is enabled when
it should be disabled or disabled when it should be enabled."

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120720 21/05/05 06:04 AM
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Quote:
I think mIRC should have a user interface simular to yahoo messenger, AIM, MSN Messenger, Camfrog


Well, as someone else said, mIRC isn't an "Instant Messenger" and I certainly do not want it to look like any of those. What I wouldn't mind seeing is the ability to do treeviews and stuff without the aid of DLLs.

Regards,


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120721 21/05/05 11:36 AM
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Agreed... it isn't IM and should NOT be IM. smile


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120722 21/05/05 01:27 PM
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If skins were implemented (*looks at Khaled*) then it could look however you want it to look wink


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120723 21/05/05 06:29 PM
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And yet, skinning mIRC is not very difficult to do. Changing major things about how it looks (such as skins that make a program's shape change from a normal square/rectangle to a circle or whatever) aren't so easily done, of course.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120724 22/05/05 04:32 AM
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Quote:
I propose a new look for mIRC... mIRC still seems like a terminal (old school). I think mIRC should have a user interface simular to yahoo messenger, AIM, MSN Messenger, Camfrog. I so want to see a treeview structure to organizing windows/channels/messages/transfers/etc... Without have to use a DLL and 500 lines of script code...


Signed.
In my opinion, mIRC needs a new look and improves, especially webcam support.
Why?
70% or more of the people on the Internet have Webcam and cant use it on mIRC cause mIRC doesnt have support for this. Really sux!

I imagine somebody in the channel:
(Nick) Anybody wanna chat? I have webcam
(Nick2) Sure, let go Nick.
(Nick) What is your MSN?
* Nick quit IRC and go MSN
* Nick2 quit IRC and go MSN

This is sux, guys! mIRC needs this.
Sure that some people dont like Webcam, so ignore and dont use. But let who likes to use on mIRC.

Thats the true!

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120725 22/05/05 04:35 AM
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I hope to god mIRC stays the way it is, and nothing drastic is added or changed, it's fine like this and I love it the way it is.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120726 22/05/05 05:05 AM
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Quote:

This is sux, guys! mIRC needs this.

I agree debug... Although that is something easily scripted with the use of DLL's or launching a web based app from a script using triggers and events... what I'm proposing is making the interface for mirc adjustable internally (or skins support, as someone suggested ealier)...


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120727 22/05/05 03:14 PM
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Like I always say.. if something is added as an option (which you can simply ignore) it shouldn't bother you as you don't have to use it, but the people that want to use it can do so.

Riamus2:

Changing a program's shape is an extremely simple thing to do (it only takes a few API calls), as is changing the way windows and controls look.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120728 22/05/05 03:33 PM
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I find that people care about what mIRC implements because they care about mIRC as a whole. I always see this argument that "if you can disable it, what's the problem?" I tend to disagree with this because that's just a selfish point of view. Personally, I care about how mIRC is perceived by others, and I don't want to see others using mIRC like the next MSN Messenger so even though I wouldn't have to use it in such a way, I wouldn't want to see anything like it in mIRC.

Regards,


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120729 22/05/05 03:42 PM
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People already use mIRC to chat on MSN Messenger and a variety of other chat networks (I know that was just an example but I'm saying that the scripting language allows things like that already)

Anyway, again, why do you care how people use mIRC if you don't have to use it that way? The only time I care about how people are using mIRC is when people come here thinking mIRC is for something other than what it is (ie: filesharing)


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120730 22/05/05 03:44 PM
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I think the only person who that would be selfish for is Khaled making him work harder, but as it stands mIRC has many features with the ability to enable and disable at will. I personally don't think it's selfish for anyone else other than the author because IF something gets implemented and not everyone is for the idea, there should be an option to turn it off. There is no problem if there is ability to turn it off because then everyone will be happy, the people who were for the feature can leave it enabled and the people who were against can turn disable it.

-Andy

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120731 22/05/05 03:45 PM
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Quote:
why do you care


Cuz I just do! As I said, I don't want mIRC to be seen as some IM program.

Quote:
The only time I care about how people are using mIRC is when people come here thinking mIRC is for something other than what it is (ie: filesharing)


In my mind not wanting mIRC to be seen as an MSN Messenger-type thing is just the same as not wanting it to be seen as a Kazaa-type thing.

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120732 22/05/05 03:52 PM
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Skins would not make it be seen as an MSN Messenger type thing.
Skins will make it be seen as an MSN Messenger type thing for those who want it to be seen as an MSN Messenger type thing, for others it will look however they want it to (think windowblinds, styleXP, winamp, wmp or any other programs that have skin support)


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120733 22/05/05 04:04 PM
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I was specifically referring to

Quote:
I think mIRC should have a user interface simular to yahoo messenger, AIM, MSN Messenger, Camfrog


Edit: And the only reason I replied to your post was due to the comment about how everything is fine to incorporate as long as it can be disabled, which I disagree with. However, that was a general response to that comment rather than your skins suggestion.

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120734 22/05/05 04:07 PM
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Ah I see.
Well I agree with you there, having a specific theme set in mIRC that doesn't follow your windows theme would be annoying as hell.
I don't think that would be a problem with skins though as you could use anything you like.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120735 22/05/05 04:18 PM
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whats with all this need for vanity lately? confused

i'll tell you, this new generation sickens me.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120736 22/05/05 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Skins will make it be seen as an MSN Messenger type thing for those who want it to be seen as an MSN Messenger type thing, for others it will look however they want it to (think windowblinds, styleXP, winamp, wmp or any other programs that have skin support)

- All of the programs you've listed there are criminally slow. It's not a coincidence.

Anyway, saying 'you can turn it off' is not a reason to add something, it's simply a reason to not not add something (yes, there's a difference). The entire point of skins is beyond me. I don't use an IRC client so that I can look at the window frame around the text and say 'wow, that looks good!', I use an IRC client to talk to people via IRC. Just as skins are pointless with all the programs you listed above, they would be equally pointless in mIRC. Skins do, in fact, largely negate the point of having a windowed GUI like Windows - uniformity of design so that people familiar with one program can feel instantly at ease with any other. Changing the position and look of every control to make something look 'cool' is not my idea of functionality.

Yes, I could just not use skins. Yes, I could just 'turn it off' and presumably then mIRC wouldn't suffer from the crippling slowdown. But then again I'd rather not have mIRC potentially bloated because of skins, and much more importantly, I'd rather not see mIRC's development turn towards the style-over-functionality development model. I'd rather not see each release being brought down to the level of being largely a bunch of bugfixes and additions to the skinning engine. I'd rather see mIRC improve as a program than be able to have my mIRC window in the shape of a duck.

But that's just me.

Note: I'm not against changes of any kind to the mIRC interface, I'm just very much against skinning.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120737 22/05/05 10:25 PM
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Quote:
I always see this argument that "if you can disable it, what's the problem?" I tend to disagree with this because that's just a selfish point of view.


Mentality,
Thats the problem. New mIRC users dont know how to deal with addons, dll and etc. So, "Why dont make it easy and add some feature with option to disable?".

Wanna chat with Webcam? Go MSN. Why not mIRC?

The only things that new mIRC users want:
1. an easy program
2. chat with friends
3. meet new friends
4. webcam (we are in 2005 not 1990 when nobody knew webcam)
Maybe only this!!

Regards.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120738 22/05/05 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I always see this argument that "if you can disable it, what's the problem?" I tend to disagree with this because that's just a selfish point of view.


Mentality,
Thats the problem. New mIRC users dont know how to deal with addons, dll and etc. So, "Why dont make it easy and add some feature with option to disable?".

Wanna chat with Webcam? Go MSN. Why not mIRC?

The only things that new mIRC users want:
1. an easy program
2. chat with friends
3. meet new friends
4. webcam (we are in 2005 not 1990 when nobody knew webcam)
Maybe only this!!

Regards.


mirc is easy, adding more useless junk makes it the opposite. mIRc shouldnt go into the "21century" its perfect how it is now..

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120739 22/05/05 11:57 PM
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Quote:

mirc is easy


You're undestimating the mystical powers of mIRC. :tongue:

Quote:

its perfect how it is now..


mIRC is indeed perfect, but that's because of Khaled's knowledge and dedication to the mIRC project for 10 years and user input from the boards. mIRC can only keep on perfecting.. smile

A general reply to everyone:

Not every thought and suggestion will be implemented obviously, and not every suggestion is how you'd want mIRC to look like, i.e. the unlikeliness of (emoticons, webcam support, skins, etc...) we should respect everyone's thought because in their mind that's how they think it can be improved, and I think that them wanting to see mIRC more improved counts for something.

-Andy

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120740 23/05/05 02:18 AM
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mIRC is still my favourite IRC client but it's far from perfect.
Slowly but surely it's starting to slip behind the rest.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120741 23/05/05 03:07 AM
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Quote:

Thats the problem. New mIRC users dont know how to deal with addons, dll and etc. So, "Why dont make it easy and add some feature with option to disable?".


Don't go there, I was using IRC in 1988. There is no reason why an application for any protocol has to have a certain look to it. I'm a GUI-junkie, easier to use == well organized; functionality need never be lost... And as far as speed of the app, a bunch of big scripts seem to slow mirc down more than I think skins would...

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120742 23/05/05 03:54 AM
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tidy_trax: I'm curious about the API calls to change a program's shape since you say it is easy. How is that done?

RE: Skinning
I think giving the ability to skin mIRC is not a bad thing. It should not be difficult to add the ability without causing any slow-down of mIRC and without making it annoying to those of us who like mIRC just as it is.

I personally don't use skins on much of anything because I usually find the original program layout preferable to anyone's skins. Of course, I did made a skin for ICQ back when it was used a lot and I liked that. If you make it yourself, you tend to like it better, I think.

RE: Making it like IM clients
No, no, no! laugh

If I want IM, I'll use IM. I personally use Trillian just because I have people on all the major clients and I refuse to run 4 clients. If I want IRC, I'll use mIRC.

And, considering I'm always seeing people on Macs and Unix/Linux asking for mIRC rather than using their own IRC clients, I'd say that most people like mIRC as it is. If someone really wanted to, they could either write a script or download one that makes it similar to IM (with emoticons and everything). It doesn't need to be added to mIRC.

RE: Webcams
I actually wouldn't mind this ability even though I don't have a webcam that works in XP (my old one doesn't have drivers for XP frown ). That said, I'd like it to be included only as a scripting option and not really built into mIRC as a normal thing.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120743 23/05/05 04:15 AM
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Yes, mIRC is easy. But who uses mIRC for the first time dont know about dll, skins, addons, etc..

I love mIRC, I use it every days since 1994 but when I see this kind of thing in mIRC (see the example below), I get sad.

(Kate) Hi, anybody wanna chat? I have Webcam.
(John) Hi Kate. how are u?
(Kate) great.. and u?
(John) very good. I have webcam too.
(Kate) So lets go MSN?
(John) Why not mIRC? I love mIRC.
(Kate) mIRC doesnt have webcam support

I wanna see mIRC and IRC growing up and not losing users to MSN just because mIRC doesnt support webcam.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120744 23/05/05 11:56 AM
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I don't know why you keep referring to webcam support, that is not what this thread is about. I'm not personally against webcam support, however, I don't realistically see it getting added.

This thread is about the look of mIRC. I don't think people are going to say:

(Nick1): Hey Nicktwo
(Nick2): Hey
(Nick1): We could chat here, but this window is like, so 1995.
(Nick2): Totally. Let's go to MSN.
(Nick1): Yeah.

Puh-leeze.

People are talking about the LOOK of an IM client and incorporating that look into mIRC. Could this be the next mIRC?! smirk

Regards,


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120745 23/05/05 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Quote:

mirc is easy


You're undestimating the mystical powers of mIRC. :tongue:


The general outlook on it, not going into it's scripting capabilities, but if we go into that route. mIRC Script isn't that hard to learn..

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120746 23/05/05 01:55 PM
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It isn't for someone who has the ability to easily grasp programming concepts. Many people will never really be able to understand programming in any language because they just aren't able to really grasp the logic behind programming.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120747 23/05/05 03:06 PM
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There are a few API functions for creating and modifying window regions, here are a few:

Code:
SetWindowRgn()
CreateRectRgn()
CreateEllipticRgn()
CombineRgn()


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120748 23/05/05 03:22 PM
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Quote:
- All of the programs you've listed there are criminally slow. It's not a coincidence.


Two of those applications install system wide hook procedures to catch certain window messages and paint the window, an application wide hook isn't nearly as slow.
Winamp and wmp aren't slow on this computer.

Quote:
Anyway, saying 'you can turn it off' is not a reason to add something


I never said it was.
Being able to turn skins off should solve the problem of not everybody wanting to use skins though.

Quote:
I don't use an IRC client so that I can look at the window frame around the text and say 'wow, that looks good!', I use an IRC client to talk to people via IRC.


Me too.
When I use a program for long periods of time I'd like it much better if the program looked good.

Quote:
Yes, I could just 'turn it off' and presumably then mIRC wouldn't suffer from the crippling slowdown.


I've not once used a program with skin support (only for its own windows) that had a crippling slowdown, maybe the program you used was badly written or your computer is a bit old.

Quote:
But then again I'd rather not have mIRC potentially bloated because of skins, and much more importantly, I'd rather not see mIRC's development turn towards the style-over-functionality development model.


Why will style will take over functionality if skin support is added?
If that was the case I'd imagine there would be 20+ new things added for picture windows with each release.

Quote:
I'd rather not see each release being brought down to the level of being largely a bunch of bugfixes and additions to the skinning engine.


Hopefully nothing *big* will be added to mIRC then.
mIRC should just stay exactly as it is while the other clients add new cutting-edge features.

Quote:
I'd rather see mIRC improve as a program than be able to have my mIRC window in the shape of a duck.


Skinning is not really that hard to do.
You seem to think that adding support for skins will take over most of mIRC's development when it won't really take much at all.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120749 23/05/05 06:46 PM
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Yes, the programs I've previously used with skinning had their share of poor coding (Winamp and WMP) but that's beside the point. I'm quite satisfied that my computer is not the source of any poor performance.

Style would likely take over development because, contrary to your claims, it is not easy to add bug-free skinning to a large and well-established project with the (I assume) complexity of mIRC. Somehow I get the feeling you've written one or two tiny programs from scratch with simple skinning capabilities included from the get-go and you've decided that it must be equally simple to add skinning anywhere and everywhere. I can assure you that's not the case. As for picture windows, they actually add to the functionality of mIRC, so I'd hardly put them in the same boat with skinning.

I've got nothing against adding big features, I simply think that the big features to be added should be useful. Clearly we have differing definitions of 'useful'. You seem to be implying that mIRC is an ugly blemish on your work-of-art desktop and that skinning must be added to protect your virgin eyes from it's hideousness. Whereas I think it looks fine as it is and does it's job well, and would be far better served by becoming a program that looks fine and does it's job very well.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120750 23/05/05 09:15 PM
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tidy_trax Offline
Hoopy frood
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Quote:
Somehow I get the feeling you've written one or two tiny programs from scratch with simple skinning capabilities included from the get-go and you've decided that it must be equally simple to add skinning anywhere and everywhere.


The only thing you're right about is it was a tiny application, however, the skinning was dynamic (I could create a new window and add a few controls to it without having to change the skinning engine and the new window would still be skinned), the only problem with it was that it didn't handle invalid skins (eg: supplying a number when a filepath is required) very well.

Quote:
I can assure you that's not the case.


I can assure you it is.

Quote:
As for picture windows, they actually add to the functionality of mIRC, so I'd hardly put them in the same boat with skinning.


I agree, that was a bad example.

Quote:
You seem to be implying that mIRC is an ugly blemish on your work-of-art desktop and that skinning must be added to protect your virgin eyes from it's hideousness.


You couldn't be more wrong...



Quote:
Whereas I think it looks fine as it is and does it's job well, and would be far better served by becoming a program that looks fine and does it's job very well.


I think it looks fine too, I don't even have a problem with the mIRC interface.
I just like to load skins or themes sometimes.


New username: hixxy
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120751 23/05/05 10:43 PM
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Jeroi Offline
Ameglian cow
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Firstly I wanna thank you guys for this post as I didnt have to start it laugh

1. mIRC looks old. It's old. Why it have to look old? Why not upgrade it? it is conservative to say it is good and lets not change it. Again why? You can implement "old" look for mIRC if new look do not feel good like Winamp 5 does even tho it has a greate skin support.

2a. adding webcam would be fantastic thing to prevent users using microsoft products like msn messenger. Ofcourse this would have to be done really good way to make it work and look good on mIRC.
2b. adding voice-com could be must as many irc users play internet games and atm they need third party voice-com software. I dont see why cant mIRC program take it to the next generation an upgrade this and webcam support?

3. Smileys... I say lets leave that off from irc. Smileys is boring youngster way to say smileys. irc type laugh is better than msn type of smilies. OR you could add smileys support where you could chose to see them but not your opposite person so then it stays user friendly way.

I think mIRC dosent have to stay in the shape like it has been always. City changes, interenet websites changes, programs changes and all evolve into next generation things.

The way like it coould be done is to make mIRC2 or something.
I like to say that dont flame me right away. I have taught these things long time and I am not youngster but I just support evolving. I am not conservative person.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120752 23/05/05 11:09 PM
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Debug Offline
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Quote:
2a. adding webcam would be fantastic thing to prevent users using microsoft products like msn messenger. Ofcourse this would have to be done really good way to make it work and look good on mIRC.


Sure!
Its very annoying who love to use mIRC and cant use just cause mIRC doesnt have support for it. (Assuming that more than 70% of the internet ppl have webcam)

Quote:
2b. adding voice-com could be must as many irc users play internet games and atm they need third party voice-com software. I dont see why cant mIRC program take it to the next generation an upgrade this and webcam support?


Maybe because "mIRC is a TEXT based chat".
Sure, and we are on 2005, not 1990. Almost everybody have webcam and mic and wanna use this in mIRC.

Quote:
I think mIRC dosent have to stay in the shape like it has been always. City changes, interenet websites changes, programs changes and all evolve into next generation things.


Microsoft changes
Macromedia changes
MSN changes
Adobe changes
Everything changes...

Where the users with webcam and mic will use this? MSN? No, IRC is IRC. MSN is MSN.
And this is not a feature, this is a need.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120753 23/05/05 11:15 PM
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Debug Offline
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Quote:
This thread is about the look of mIRC. I don't think people are going to say:

(Nick1): Hey Nicktwo
(Nick2): Hey
(Nick1): We could chat here, but this window is like, so 1995.
(Nick2): Totally. Let's go to MSN.
(Nick1): Yeah.


No, they are going to say:

(Nick1) I have webcam, where can i use it?
(Nick1) here?
(Nick2) No, sorry.
(Nick2) but i love mIRC, why not?
(Nick1) not supported.

Only this wink

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120754 24/05/05 01:42 AM
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mIRCManiac Offline
Fjord artisan
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Hey I have an idea. Really a special edition of mIRC isn't a bad
idea except instead of calling it Professional Edition it could
be called Mickey Mouse Edition. Then all the kiddies that want
their lame crap, can get their webcam, smileys, skins, themes,
stupid text effects, avatars & really whatever the hell they
want while the real mIRC is left alone to look exactly like
it does. What do you say? Shall we start a petition?

Debug This wasn't a reply at you alone but to everyone.

Last edited by mIRCManiac; 24/05/05 01:52 AM.
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120755 24/05/05 03:04 AM
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Debug Offline
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And maybe a boyfriend could see a girlfriend that lives far, a friend that you didnt see after a long time, this is not lame, this is normal wink

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120756 24/05/05 03:42 AM
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Scoobs8 Offline
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There is a webcam script for IRC here:

http://www.mircscripts.com/cgi-bin/file.php?id=361

And as far as adding the tree view thing and other stuff that could be scripted I consider that kind of thing a waste of Khaled's time. Why should he implement something in mIRC when it could be easily scripted? His time would be better spent on other ways of improving mIRC and fixing bugs etc.

Quote:

In my opinion, mIRC needs a new look and improves, especially webcam support.
Why?
70% or more of the people on the Internet have Webcam and cant use it on mIRC cause mIRC doesnt have support for this. Really sux!

I imagine somebody in the channel:
(Nick) Anybody wanna chat? I have webcam
(Nick2) Sure, let go Nick.
(Nick) What is your MSN?
* Nick quit IRC and go MSN
* Nick2 quit IRC and go MSN

This is sux, guys! mIRC needs this.
Sure that some people dont like Webcam, so ignore and dont use. But let who likes to use on mIRC.

Thats the true!

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120757 24/05/05 05:42 AM
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Debug Offline
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I know about this ByteCam. But tell this to the millions of users wink

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120758 24/05/05 10:23 AM
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Pasmal Offline
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[General posting. Just hit reply beside Debug because it was the closest link]

I for one dread the day when webcam support is merged with mIRC (mIRC for IRC, like the others said). I also highly question all this apparent popularity placed on webcams.

If people really want webcam support and skinning *that bad*, then they'll go off and use another client. Their choice what client they use.

If webcams were truly an important thing, mIRC would be well dead by now. And so would these message boards which for some silly reason lack the ability to have inset webcam frames.

Funnily, some of us find the old school approach the best approach. There's something about chatting on an IRC channel in the late hours of the nite, creating communial prose within the channel and everyone enjoying the banter together. It's that culture that is IRC. Not watching someone pick his nose on the other end of a cam.

'Course, this comes from someone who occasionally connects to IRC via telnet just for kicks.

PRIVMSG #mIRC :Long live textual conversation.

Last edited by Pasmal; 24/05/05 10:25 AM.
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120759 24/05/05 12:10 PM
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Mpdreamz Offline
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mIRC looks: Too many people to please em all, i think going for a basic distribution like mIRC is now is perfect Theres so much that can be changed and if you feel the personal need to you should just change it.

Webcam: I have yet to see a good reason why this shouldnt be implemented, it would only put IRC back on the map and i dont see how it would hurt anyone. IRC is a place to meet new people Messengers is a tool for people you already know. With that said, adding webcam support wont make it a messenger like program, the comparison shouldnt be drawn into the discusion.
it wont be forced upon you at all you can always choose not to watch some1 pick his nose

Skinning: See mIRC looks.

Last edited by Mpdreamz; 24/05/05 12:12 PM.

$maybe
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120760 24/05/05 02:30 PM
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Debug Offline
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Quote:
Webcam: I have yet to see a good reason why this shouldnt be implemented, it would only put IRC back on the map and i dont see how it would hurt anyone.


Perfect. I am waiting until now one good reason why this shouldnt be added.

Quote:
IRC is a place to meet new people Messengers is a tool for people you already know. With that said, adding webcam support wont make it a messenger like program, the comparison shouldnt be drawn into the discusion.


Perfect again.
mIRC will never be like MSN of other Messengers, why? mIRC is a place to talk with your friends and meet new people. Messenger is a place to talk with your friends only in your contact list.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120761 24/05/05 03:23 PM
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Jeroi Offline
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Yes those are my way to think about mIRC look. I think IRC is chat program. Chat means voice-chat too. And even bettre voice and webcam. Still you could meet alot of peeps on irc put in same time you could start chatting with em by voice and webcam. It really is oldschool way to think progress and new stuff is bad and makes the program worse. Thats lie! Program will not get bad but it CHANGES. Are you afrite of it?

Then again I think Khaled are not willing to start developing mIRC once again into it's next generation version which would be more able to compete with msn messenger and others. IRC is starting to be a really old way to chat. Why not improve it? I really look forward to see a mIRC type of program which can connect to quakenet and I could start voice-chats with espanian people even tho I am from Finland and start gaming with them. I think it would be easy to make a server integrated to mIRC so that you can chose to run voice-com server inside mIRC and get your mates in it.

I ask this and I point it directly to Khaled:

Are you still willing to develope mIRC program or developing a new program which is mIRC style but uses these nowdays possibilites?

Then again is there a coder who would start this kind of projekt to get a new and modern mIRC program?

And who says kids wanna progress? You are fool. Even if you grow older you can still chose to want progress in your life and have childish imagination.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120762 24/05/05 03:36 PM
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mIRCManiac Offline
Fjord artisan
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Quote:
And who says kids wanna progress? You are fool. Even if you grow older you can still chose to want progress in your life and have childish imagination.


Well I guess since I said kiddies that one was for me?
I have nothing against progress at all, in fact I welcome it.
I welcome any progress/improvement of mIRC as a
text chat client, which is exactly what mIRC is. If he
were to maybe add webcam & voice chat as plugins, like
he did for SSL, well maybe that wouldn't be so bad because
even better than the ability to disable them, is the ability to
not
have them at all.

As far as skins/themes/smileys go, I've always liked that
mIRC has a clean looking GUI rather than cluttered up with a
bunch of unnecessary bs that adds nothing to the funcionality
but only to the looks, while bloating it with all the same
unnecessary bs. IMO these would only degrade mIRC
from a great text chat app to resemble something that was
developed for little kids.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120763 24/05/05 04:21 PM
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Debug Offline
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Ok, lets imagine you are in this examples below and what you will do:

1. You live in London and your parents in Brazil. What can you do about this? Use your lovely mIRC to see them. Why not MSN? No, you like mIRC not MSN.

2. You have a girlfriend in Brazil. What can you do? Chat with her in the mIRC and see her too. Great isnt?And the missing goes..

3. Your great friend from school that you dont see more than 10 years. Why not chat with him and look his family? And his little baby?

Oh webcam can be really awesome too, cant?
Yes, you are just "imagining" this but you can be surely that a lot of people in the world love this 3 examples and would be very pleased to use mIRC not MSN.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120764 24/05/05 04:53 PM
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Kelder Offline
Hoopy frood
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Quote:
Webcam: I have yet to see a good reason why this shouldnt be implemented, it would only put IRC back on the map and i dont see how it would hurt anyone.


Why isn't webcam support integrated in my mail client? That's used for communication too! Why doesn't my telnet or ftp client have webcam support? Why my ftp client doesn't support gmail? Because the protocol that they are meant for (SMTP, telnet, FTP) doesn't include any support for it.

mIRC is an IRC client, a program to simplify using the IRC protocol. You can use telnet to chat too (you should try it one time) but you'd have to type a lot more, and read more garbage to follow a discussion. No scripting language either :s

Khaled doesn't control the IRC protocol, nor does anyone else ((un)fortunately?). This means he cannot just throw in a webcam and have it work for all irc networks/servers and other irc clients.

Is webcam support impossible using mIRC? Not really, some kind of dcc webcam, much like a dcc send or dcc chat needs no extra support from the protocol or the ircd's and could be implemented as a nice script. Some ctcp triggers and a dll to integrate with a (free/OSS) webcam program and you're set. If this script is moderately good, then those millions of webcam users you claim there are will know about it fast enough and probably use it.

Just for the record, I hope that you mean one-to-one webcam, not webcam sharing with entire channels via the ircd. IRC is on many networks still available and free because it doesn't consume that much bandwith. Receiving and sending 100.000 simultaneous webcam feeds around is not just impractical or more expensive, it's impossible...

So, as a conclusion, I'd maybe support some kind of video or overlay window support in mIRC, but webcam support is imho better placed in a script. Wether this script just provides a way to get an external (existing) webcam program to connect to users found on irc or uses some dll's to do it
itself doesn't really matter to me.

Also consider there are other irc clients and even different operating systems out there. If this webcam hype is to be included somehow, it would be best if there was some standard or (possibility for) working implementation for more than one irc client/OS combination...

Quote:
it wont be forced upon you at all you can always choose not to watch some1 pick his nose

Alas, you're probably (partly) wrong. Yes you can choose not to open webcam sessions with anyone, but yes it will be forced upon you. I foresee people just sending such webcam requests to anyone, either with 'hey wanna cyber' style stuff or with the actual requests 'H0tG1r| is attempting to initiate a private webcam session with you Accept Ignore' Yes you could probably just ignore or auto-deny them, but that's not the point...


ps: sorry for the long post :s

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120765 24/05/05 05:17 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
Hoopy frood
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Agreed. I'd say that if people really wanted to use webcams, they could write a DLL to use whatever software your webcam uses. Really, all you have to send to the webcam program from IRC is the IP information (dependant on your webcam software, of course). I don't think adding support through a DLL would be too difficult.


Invision Support
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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120766 24/05/05 05:19 PM
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Debug Offline
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Quote:
Why isn't webcam support integrated in my mail client? That's used for communication too! Why doesn't my telnet or ftp client have webcam support? Why my ftp client doesn't support gmail?


Because you dont need webcam in mail client.
Because you dont need webcam in ftp.
Because you dont need gmail in ftp.
And about webcam in a chat? Oh this is great. A lot of people already do this.

Quote:
Alas, you're probably (partly) wrong. Yes you can choose not to open webcam sessions with anyone, but yes it will be forced upon you. I foresee people just sending such webcam requests to anyone, either with 'hey wanna cyber' style stuff or with the actual requests 'H0tG1r| is attempting to initiate a private webcam session with you Accept Ignore' Yes you could probably just ignore or auto-deny them, but that's not the point...


No problem. Add an option: "Only accept webcam requests from: Notify, Nobody, Anybody.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120767 24/05/05 05:30 PM
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Debug Offline
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And why not help these people and support this? A mIRC user that is using mIRC only for 2 days will need to learn mIRC Scripting and DLL to use his webcam in mIRC?

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120768 24/05/05 05:55 PM
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Sat Offline
Hoopy frood
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Hoopy frood
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Quote:
A mIRC user that is using mIRC only for 2 days will need to learn mIRC Scripting and DLL to use his webcam in mIRC?

No. Didn't someone already mention ByteCam?


Saturn, QuakeNet staff
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120769 24/05/05 06:12 PM
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Debug Offline
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Quote:
Quote:
A mIRC user that is using mIRC only for 2 days will need to learn mIRC Scripting and DLL to use his webcam in mIRC?

No. Didn't someone already mention ByteCam?


Yes. But isnt more easy support this and everybody can use or he will need to send this ByteCam one-by-one ?

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120770 24/05/05 06:20 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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If someone WANTS to use webcam, they will get the script to use it. If they DON'T care about webcam, then they will not. It is that simple. You make it sound like having everyone get the script is a problem. It isn't. If someone wants to do webcam, they'll get it. Just because you want to use webcam doesn't mean everyone else has to have it as an option.

Sure, you can say that you have the script but can't use it since no one else has it. That isn't the fault of the script. That means that other people don't WANT to use webcam in mIRC. If they really wanted to use webcam in mIRC, they'd get that script.

Many people use only one IM client and not all of them. Sure, they could install all of them or use a multiple client like Trillian so they can talk to people on all clients. If they care about that, they will do so. If they don't care, then they'll only use teh client they like. It's really the same thing. If someone wants to do it, they will.


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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120771 24/05/05 06:42 PM
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Debug Offline
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Quote:
If someone WANTS to use webcam, they will get the script to use it. If they DON'T care about webcam, then they will not. It is that simple. You make it sound like having everyone get the script is a problem. It isn't. If someone wants to do webcam, they'll get it. Just because you want to use webcam doesn't mean everyone else has to have it as an option.

Sure, you can say that you have the script but can't use it since no one else has it. That isn't the fault of the script. That means that other people don't WANT to use webcam in mIRC. If they really wanted to use webcam in mIRC, they'd get that script.

Many people use only one IM client and not all of them. Sure, they could install all of them or use a multiple client like Trillian so they can talk to people on all clients. If they care about that, they will do so. If they don't care, then they'll only use teh client they like. It's really the same thing. If someone wants to do it, they will.


And... Just because you and others dont want webcam support, others do. What is the easy way to resolve this? Add the support and who likes to use, fine. Who doesnt like to use, ignore it. Just we have SSL. And comparing SSL and Webcam , webcam is more and more used than SSL.

Or you are telling me that I will have to contact all hundreds of millions mIRC users and tell them that if they want to use webcam on mIRC they will need to download ByteCam ? This is a little funny, isnt?

Last edited by Debug; 24/05/05 06:52 PM.
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120772 24/05/05 07:24 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
Hoopy frood
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Why add something that is already available? And, as I said, people who want it will get that script. You don't have to make people get it. As I said before, your comments about having to contact people to get them to use it is invalid as people who want it will already get it.


Invision Support
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Re: A new look for mIRC... #120773 24/05/05 08:11 PM
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Debug Offline
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Everything needs improves and changes..

Cars now have dvd, mp3...
Cell phones now have photos, mp3, sound record, webcam...
Digital cam now have webcam, sound record...

Why? Because they need this to increase, to improve the options, to bring new users. Why mIRC cant do this?

/me already waiting for only one reason

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120774 24/05/05 08:24 PM
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mIRCManiac Offline
Fjord artisan
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Quote:
/me already waiting for only one reason


What?? This thread, and many more like it is full of reasons.
Just like they're full of reasons to add it. People either want
it or they don't, and a few don't give a damn either way. Is
the earth going to explode if it's added? Of course not. Am
I going to go on a killing spree if it's added? Of course not,
but does that mean that all opposed to this should just give
in and agree with you people? No. I don't want it to be added
because I want mIRC to remain a text chat client, that's it,
no other reasons.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120775 24/05/05 08:36 PM
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Debug Offline
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Easy.
Just like I said before: Add like SSL.

You use? Great. Thanks very much mIRC, more users, more options.
You dont use? Ignore and continue using your mIRC Text-based Chat.

So easy. I cant understand why this improve will hurt you and the others.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120776 24/05/05 08:40 PM
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mIRCManiac Offline
Fjord artisan
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Yes I said before that if it were added as a plugin then
that wouldn't be so bad because if I don't install the plugin
then it hasn't been added. But just to be able to disable it
and ignore it? Screw that, and that's a crappy response
to opposition.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120777 24/05/05 08:50 PM
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Debug Offline
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Sorry if I am boring you or anybody here, but I want so much this improve.

I use mIRC all days, almost 24hs, I work with computers, and here in Brazil, the IRC networks have lost so many users to MSN just because of the webcam support.
I dont know if you already knew BRASnet network, this network was always on the Top 6/7 of the world, and today the network is no more on Netsplit.de and the network doesnt have 30% of the users of 2004.
Thats why I and all brazilians would like this improve so much, I wanna see mIRC and IRC increase all days, not losing users to MSN.

So, Im going now and this is my last reply. Sorry if anybody get bored with my replies. Thats is only my opinion. And thanks all.

Best Regards.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120778 25/05/05 07:53 AM
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Darwin_Koala Offline
Fjord artisan
Offline
Fjord artisan
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 206
Quote:
Easy.
Just like I said before: Add like SSL.

You use? Great. Thanks very much mIRC, more users, more options.
You dont use? Ignore and continue using your mIRC Text-based Chat.

So easy. I cant understand why this improve will hurt you and the others.


It amazes me how most people ignore the obvious.

- IRC uses the IRC protocol - text based chat.
- mIRC is an IRC client.
- There are plenty of programs that provide WebCam support.
- mIRC and these programs run on windows.

Why not have both mIRC and your WebCam application running? (This can also be streamlined by a small script as mentioned earlier).

Some here want good reasons why not to implement webcam support? Search these boards .. these answers have already been provided.

To provide a simple analogy - I don't own a semi-trailer to commute around the city, and I don't own a small car to do long-range haulage. Use the right tools for the job!

Cheers,

DK


Darwin_Koala

Junior Brat, In-no-cent(r)(tm) and original source of DK-itis!
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120779 25/05/05 10:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 103
Pasmal Offline
Vogon poet
Offline
Vogon poet
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 103
Quote:

And... Just because you and others dont want webcam support, others do. What is the easy way to resolve this? Add the support and who likes to use, fine. Who doesnt like to use, ignore it. Just we have SSL. And comparing SSL and Webcam , webcam is more and more used than SSL.


SSL is more directly related to IRC servers than webcam. It is more relevant to mIRC.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120780 25/05/05 10:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 103
Pasmal Offline
Vogon poet
Offline
Vogon poet
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 103
Quote:
I use mIRC all days, almost 24hs, I work with computers, and here in Brazil, the IRC networks have lost so many users to MSN just because of the webcam support.


1. Surely there must be some other competing product out there other than mIRC that has IRC and webcam support built in natively. If so, why not use it. People don't find mIRC by searching for 'Webcam chat'.

2. [And a flame] Perhaps people outside of Brazil are not as vain/place as much importance about seeing what people look like / are doing while they converse [/end flame]

Quote:

I wanna see mIRC and IRC increase all days, not losing users to MSN.


I wouldn't mind seeing mIRC increase, but if it means lots of 'ASL/webcam?' messages then no thanks. My mIRC soul isn't for sale.

Last edited by Pasmal; 25/05/05 10:34 AM.
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120781 25/05/05 11:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 759
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Mpdreamz Offline
Hoopy frood
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 759
I hear alot of arguements that basicly say "It has never been in there so why add it" which make absolutely no sence to me at all. I dont see how adding Webcam will make it any less textbased. and again to use or not use is a choice.

Bytecam ? i dont see how saying it can be done already should be an arguement not to implement it standardly. it be nice if it was supported natively as the greater part of the IRC community has no idea how to load a script and even if they dont know how to use it.

IRC protocol is old who says protocols cant be updated ? and Webcam could be a new form of DCC withouth interfering with the protocol.


$maybe
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120782 25/05/05 11:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 759
M
Mpdreamz Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 759
Quote:
Use the right tools for the job!

Cheers,

DK


id say mIRC is THE tool to meet new people around the globe so it doesnt make ANY sence to me to use another program to see who im talking to.


$maybe
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120783 25/05/05 06:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 208
H
Hrung Offline
Fjord artisan
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Fjord artisan
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 208
I have to admit that I'm extremely tired of seeing so many new posts without anything new to say. I really can't imagine that anything that can be said has not been posted at least 3 times already. For the sake of all that is good and right, please take a moment before you submit to ask yourself, "is this just a rehash of something that someone else has already said?" If so, DON'T SAY IT.

Additionally, I think that at this point, it really is up to Khaled to read these pages of comments that don't necessarily have anything to do with the original post, and make his own decisions, taking mIRC where he thinks is best. I trust him to make the right choice for the future of mIRC.

I know that this post is probably useless, and people will continue unabated, but if I can stop just one person from being a parrot, I consider that to be worth it.

Hmmmmmm... I wonder if Khaled is as sick of the banter as I am.


If I knew now what I will know then... maybe things will have been different...
Re: A new look for mIRC... #120784 25/05/05 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4
S
stormed Offline
Self-satisified door
Offline
Self-satisified door
S
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4
Quote:
I hear alot of arguements that basicly say "It has never been in there so why add it" which make absolutely no sence to me at all. I dont see how adding Webcam will make it any less textbased. and again to use or not use is a choice.


Perfect.
To use or not use is a free choice. Its so hard to understand that this feature WONT change ANYTHING to who wont use?

Quote:
Bytecam ? i dont see how saying it can be done already should be an arguement not to implement it standardly. it be nice if it was supported natively as the greater part of the IRC community has no idea how to load a script and even if they dont know how to use it.


Amem. New users dont know how to change the nickname and imagine dealing with dll, loading scripts, unloading.
Simple question: Why not help if you can?

Quote:
IRC protocol is old who says protocols cant be updated ? and Webcam could be a new form of DCC withouth interfering with the protocol.


Sure can be updated. And more.. there are already a lot of updates, look the rfcs.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120785 25/05/05 07:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 103
Pasmal Offline
Vogon poet
Offline
Vogon poet
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 103
Quote:

To use or not use is a free choice. Its so hard to understand that this feature WONT change ANYTHING to who wont use?


Perhaps we want to prevent the number of webcam wheeling hippies on channels going round pestering all the guys with female sounding nicknames for webcams instead of just ASLs.

Perhaps we don't want to be caught dead using a program that has a built in webcam because of the stereotypes generated from it (kekeke you're another noob with a webcam irc client kekeke).

And of course, once again, if the demand for a webcam in an IRC client was so great, howcome mIRC isn't dead and some superior IRC client with webcam ability has taken its place? (See point 1 point avoiding webcam wheeling hippies).

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120786 25/05/05 09:08 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4
S
stormed Offline
Self-satisified door
Offline
Self-satisified door
S
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4
Quote:
Quote:

To use or not use is a free choice. Its so hard to understand that this feature WONT change ANYTHING to who wont use?


Perhaps we want to prevent the number of webcam wheeling hippies on channels going round pestering all the guys with female sounding nicknames for webcams instead of just ASLs.

Perhaps we don't want to be caught dead using a program that has a built in webcam because of the stereotypes generated from it (kekeke you're another noob with a webcam irc client kekeke).

And of course, once again, if the demand for a webcam in an IRC client was so great, howcome mIRC isn't dead and some superior IRC client with webcam ability has taken its place? (See point 1 point avoiding webcam wheeling hippies).


Accept webcam requests from:
( ) Anyone
( ) Notify
( ) Nobody

Very simple.

Re: A new look for mIRC... #120787 25/05/05 09:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 31
J
Jeroi Offline
Ameglian cow
Offline
Ameglian cow
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 31
Quote:
If someone WANTS to use webcam, they will get the script to use it. If they DON'T care about webcam, then they will not. It is that simple. You make it sound like having everyone get the script is a problem. It isn't. If someone wants to do webcam, they'll get it. Just because you want to use webcam doesn't mean everyone else has to have it as an option.

Sure, you can say that you have the script but can't use it since no one else has it. That isn't the fault of the script. That means that other people don't WANT to use webcam in mIRC. If they really wanted to use webcam in mIRC, they'd get that script.

Many people use only one IM client and not all of them. Sure, they could install all of them or use a multiple client like Trillian so they can talk to people on all clients. If they care about that, they will do so. If they don't care, then they'll only use teh client they like. It's really the same thing. If someone wants to do it, they will.


I am amaizing how negative you are about the webcam issue. I think it is really the only way to get webcam support for newbies to add it directly on software not a script made to mIRC so that those who wanna speak webcam does go to download em. This is false. Now if they want to chat webcam they say:

Hello who are you?
-I am guy from Finland
Oh really may I voice-chat and video talk with you?
-ok here is my messenger: plaah@piippilidoo.com
Ok wait a second. See you at messenger.

You arent going to say hey lets do it with mIRC... You just have to go there and there and dowload that and that and after 30min babling OMG you got A mIRC script and OMG we see each others!!!

Thats the why just if UNKNOWN people meets not girlfriends and moms because as you know they would use messenger with contacting you as messenger sees you email too.

Thats the reason why implementing voice and webcam supports make it easier and more fun to chat.

And ofcourse I mean external (donno if that was a correct word) support for webcam user to user not using IRC as it takes too much bandwith for IRC networks.

Let keep mIRC as a text client but add a support for voice and webcam so that if someone wants they can easilly do it. With everybody with options not to take a webcam reguestes if you do not have webcam or do not want to use it somehow.

Still I havent seen a good reason why not to upgrade mIRC into the nowdays needs.

Last edited by Jeroi; 25/05/05 09:22 PM.
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