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#4795 03/01/03 09:54 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Hoopy frood
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mIRC is just a chat programme...

This chant is force-fed to us every day of the week by those that apparently think that mIRC V4.7 is still a going concern, the same people that lack the imagination to think of new ideas for mIRC (one of the primary reasons for the existance of these message boards I thought) and the same people that seem to get a high from belittling those that come up with new ideas.

Yet I, for one, look forward to each new version hand-crafted by Khaled simply because it will be a creation of both bug-fixes and new ideas jointly thought of by him and those who make suggestions here. It amazes me that the same people who knock every new idea with mIRC is just a chat programme seem to spend their IRC time just idling (yes I have been to most of the #mIRC channels around the world and there's never alot of activity)... Oh but idling is part of chat... No more than sharing the odd file (mIRC is not a filesharing programme), adding more support for different sound file types (mIRC is not a jukebox), adding support for DCC Video Chat (mIRC is not a telly), adding more $identifiers (mIRC is not a room robot), adding more colours (mIRC is not a christmas tree), adding emoticons (mIRC is not a family photograph), I could go on forever here if I had the benefit of access to the old forum.

The fact is, mIRC is a chat programme that is under continual development and the possibility of new ideas from it's users should be explored instead of put down all the time by the precupernican obscurantists here that think IRC is a dim dark world of B&W text chat and not a thing else.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying all new ideas MUST be included, I'm saying that they should be given thought, prioritised and implemented over time, as time permits and according to the ability of mIRC's current structure to allow the idea to be included.

I for one would like to see DCC Video Chat, since there are clients that apparently do already support this. But the IRCd's would have to then support it! Bull! IRCd's do not support DCC, they only support the initialisation of a DCC session. You can even log off IRC and DCC to another user the same way as you can with MS Netmeeting. I've been using Netmeeting on and off for years without a Micro$oft .NET passport just by entering the IP address of the other user. I am sure mIRC has the same capabilities with it's current level of DCC support.

Then there's the emoticons. Okay, this is far from necessary but alot of people want it. There's a furphy going around that it will lag you and increase bandwidth usage. What a load of rubbish. Emoticons would simply be mIRC converting :-) to shocked locally. There'd be no additional information sent via IRC to achieve this so where will it lag or chew bandwidth?

Then there's additional colour support. 16 colours is enough and too much to some, however alot of people want more. I think 256 would be nice to have. Computers are very powerful these days so why not? And to those that say But all IRC programmes would also have to support it I say to hell with the other programmes. mIRC is the most popular programme and it should lead the way rather than lag behind waiting for others to ummm and arrr about it all. You can customise colours in mIRC... Yes you can but you still only get 16 concurrent colour choices. If you don't like colour then turn it off instead of sulking about the repeated requests.

*Watchdog pauses for a brief fart...

Moving on... What would mIRC be without it's current support of DCC send/get, DCC Chat, DCC Server, Fserver, support for all the oddball functions that are peculiar to certain IRCd's such as CR's UOP level, Microsoft Exchange's IRCX, support for sounds, support for .dll files, support for colours, support for user-made scripts including bots (yes mIRC is perfectly adequate as a bot if you are able to host it yourself), support for multi-server/network connections, the most comprehensive user-configuration of the GUI (more than any other programme) - all this and much more is what makes mIRC the most popular chat programme out there.

Those who constantly say mIRC is just a chat programme seem to have a complex against improvement and advancement. It's a case of "I'm not clever enough to think of this so it's not a good idea" Like it or not, mIRC is going to be a 2MB download one day - OH NOOO !!!!! NOT 2MB THAT WOULD KILL MY CONNECTION - like, get real, you think nothing of downloading 5MB MP3 files yet a song goes for 3 1/2 minutes while mIRC can go forever.

I say let the continued advancement of mIRC move forward. If you don't like an idea then that's okay, say so but give a good reason for it as well instead of this childish cry of mIRC is just a chat programme. if you believe that IRC is a B&W affair and should remain untainted by the good ideas and intentions of others then perhaps you should get off the net for a while and get out into the real world and enjoy life instead of getting a bad back and RSI whilst facing your delusional world of make-believe.

mIRC is a chat programme, but an increasingly ever-improving, diverse and technically advanced one.

#4796 03/01/03 10:03 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Quote:
But the IRCd's would have to then support it! Bull!

If that was a comment on my post (which is the most recent one stating that on the subject of Video/Audio chat, so I presume it is):

Read the whole post I made before you comment on it. He suggested channels specifically for voice chat, and the ircd WOULD have to support that, all I said was that it would have to be peer to peer, and I was right..

#4797 03/01/03 10:56 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Quote:
Then there's additional colour support. 16 colours is enough and too much to some, however alot of people want more. I think 256 would be nice to have. Computers are very powerful these days so why not? And to those that say But all IRC programmes would also have to support it I say to hell with the other programmes. mIRC is the most popular programme and it should lead the way rather than lag behind waiting for others to ummm and arrr about it all.

- <rant>That's a horrible, horrible, horrible way to think about things. That 'Well everyone else will have to follow us' attitude is the same way of thinking Microsoft and other leading browser makers have, and is therefore the reason why client-side web development is such a bitch and requires 300% more code and 500% more effort to make sites that work on most browsers. It's also why 50% of the features of new standards which would otherwise help developers go to waste because they can't be used without other users getting screwed over by it, and the reason why people who aren't willing to put in the work have sites which only work on certain versions of certain browsers and detract from the internet's promise of being a medium in which information can be accessed by anyone. Yes, mIRC probably could needlessly force other clients to support this, but there's no good reason to do so. Especially given that mIRC could support 99 colours with no loss of compatability.</rant>


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Babel fish
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I agree that mIRC is just... is used too often to crush innovative ideas in the egg.

"mIRC is not for file sharing" has been repeated a lot of times. We don't want to open our eyes and see that mIRC *is* used actively for filesharing. Yes, for trading porn and mp3z.

Write a program or library that extends mIRC capabilities, and you'll get "mIRC is not OS (browser, gaming console, ...)". I could write a DLL to support DCC video chat, but I'd get burned in flames ("mIRC is not NetMeeting").

Everybody and his sister seems to know what mIRC is, and what it isn't. But only Khaled could give a definitive answer on where mIRC is going to - "just a chat client" or "entertaining portal".


Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet
#4799 04/01/03 01:19 AM
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Vogon poet
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You really need to get out and enjoy the 'real' world. Take a walk, call a friend, try skiing :P smile

#4800 04/01/03 01:19 AM
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Hoopy frood
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Well said Karen

#4801 04/01/03 01:28 AM
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Fjord artisan
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Me too, but I can't be bothered driving to the beach laugh

#4802 04/01/03 02:22 AM
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Hoopy frood
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Take a walk? As you wrote that I was infact out in the Sydney sun doing just that. If all you can come up with is "take a walk" then it demonstrates how correct I am about mIRC development.

Karen: You are one of a few I had in mind when I wrote my post. If Khaled sat at his desk and thought "What do I add to mIRC to make it a better offering and then though "Oh no, Karen and those of her thought trail say it's just a chat programme I can't do that" then mIRC would simply just be a bug-free version of V4.7 and you know that only too well.

In addition: To those that want mIRC to develop and improve further, I for one will not flame your ideas, instead I encourage them.

Last edited by Watchdog; 04/01/03 02:25 AM.
#4803 04/01/03 02:33 AM
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Watchdog, I am certain that my comments don't make a hill of beans when it comes to development. Nor does it matter to me. I use mIRC because I like it (have from day 1) and I really enjoy helping people when I can. Nothing more than that. My response above was to needle you, only wink

I'll also add this smile I don't mind/care what features Khaled adds to the program, but there never will be a day I will advocate the use of mIRC as 'chiefly' a file trading program. In fact, my own very personal selfish wish would be to remove all dcc transfers from IRC so it might become a chat area again. Watching it for 10 years, it is but a shadow of it's former self. (and please don't tell me to 'go find' a network that is) wink

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Babel fish
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"Write a program or library that extends mIRC capabilities, and you'll get "mIRC is not OS (browser, gaming console, ...)". I could write a DLL to support DCC video chat, but I'd get burned in flames ("mIRC is not NetMeeting")."

No, seriously, do this, I will love you forever. DCC voice chat too (and I'd buy a new damn soundcard)

If I had the knowledge I would of done so long long ago.

NECROMAN COME ON MAN YOU KNOW YOU WANNA ;-)

P.S. -- Seriously, someone should since Khaled isn't, and if he does, it will *probably* be a while.


- Linux System Administrator, Darktides Communications, LLC.
#4805 07/01/03 11:06 AM
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mIRC is just a chat programme...

People can say this if they want to, but it is clear that Khaled intends mIRC to be much more than just a chat program. You can conclude this by watching the type of features which get added. Think of DLL support, COM object support, etc. These type of features allow a mIRC client to be and do practically everything.

IMHO:
I think Khaled intended mIRC to be a chat application, but with the capabilities to let it be shaped into many forms. He will not add features which only a handful people will use, instead he will add features with 99% will use and besides he will add capabilities so the other handful of people can create the features themselves. This will keep mIRC clean and some people still get what they want. Everybody happy, right?
smile

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Hoopy frood
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Agreed.

If Necroman did do a DCC Video .dll (or if anyone did it) I know for a fact that if I was to include it in my script there'd be a potential 30,000 happy downloaders. And that's just for one IRC network.

All we need is the 'market' and some encouragement to those that do know what they are doing whether it be with a .dll or hard-coded into mIRC and sooner or later someone is going to challenge themselves to achieve it.

I suppose time will tell. Sting's post is spot-on too. mIRC does have an intended purpose though with ideas from the users of mIRC as well as input from Khaled of course, it has slowly evolved and matured as an application.

If we look at how versatile Micro$oft Word has become over time, it's gone from a humble word processor to a complete presentation suite on it's own and it also makes websites (not as good as Notepad but anyway) that is an example of how a single purpose application becomes more value-added. Also look at Micro$oft Outlook - I just discovered the other day that it contains a 'light' version of M$ Visual Basic, again product diversity. Now if another chat programme does support DCC Video we know one question is already answered for us - it's possible to do it grin


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