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Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21311 01/05/03 10:03 PM
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codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood
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Again, I laugh and go about my business...

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21312 02/05/03 03:38 AM
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Watchdog Offline
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I am talking about customers that developers build websites and online communities for. IRC users are not customers since the service is free. They are users or chatters.

If a web developer approached one of his customers and offered a chat solution such as a rip of Dreamforge + third party java applet + third party services + shell account then he would no doubt get laughed at.

I have four chatrooms accessible from my own website and while I haven't ordered complete customisation (due to the fact that my website is commercial-free and as such does not earn revenue) the solution I have craps all over any freeware.

I would prefer to be backed by a Government owned telecommunications giant who has tested a range of software solutions before choosing the best one for the job than rely on people that have only ever seen one side to the story and based their decision on others that fit into the same catagory. What I am talking about here is the typical anti-Microsoft, anti-Windows, anti-AnythingBig brigade who live in tall poppy land because they haven't got the vision or courage to become big themselves, probably because jealousy dominates their lives.

As for your quote on the number of users some servers have, that's real good doing the rounds doing /lusers checks on the bot/fserve domains out there. I'm sure all these bots that put up half-hourly notices quoting FTP addresses puts a REAAAALLLLL BIIIIGGGG load on the servers. IRCnet and EFnet don't have services either so the longer term median load is cut in half straight away.

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21313 02/05/03 03:44 AM
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theAncinetOne Offline
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Impressive numbers. And I bet they don't have a need for a single C programmer. Ah, they have a whole team of them - yes that costs nothing out there - but not in commercial companies.

They all come with intergrated services, web server and web applet. They don't? Really?

What are we talking about again?

Suitable product for suitable purpose. Yep, I'm with you.

Last edited by theAncinetOne; 02/05/03 04:01 AM.
Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21314 02/05/03 03:50 AM
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theAncinetOne Offline
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+m and and a mIRC script. Right
/me laughs even louder now.

Dont' thinks so when one of your chat customers is a national Football League, including all the participating teams or top 10 radio stations.

+m, lol - you have never moderated a commercial event or understand the requirements of one.

BTW, I still say each product for its purpose. The free IRCds are fatastic for promotion and easy access of IRC.

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21315 02/05/03 05:15 AM
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codemaster: It is good that you "laugh" at this - You are the one that relies on MDX to satisfy your need for a mIRC based MP3 player yet you blame mIRC's scripting language for the lag you get when trying to raise the dialogue.

In knowing that in this case the tradesman blames the tools, and the wrong ones at that, for the ill-will he is suffering why should I trust your opinion on something more serious such as IRCd choice?

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21316 02/05/03 12:42 PM
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starbucks_mafia Offline
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And you're laughing because...? No I haven't personally hosted an event like that, but that doesn't mean I don't understand what's required. Try giving a reason why +a is so much better. Yes that's right, a reason. Say it with me now: r-e-a-s-o-n.

Watchdog: You make a big thing about the 'anti-AnythingBig brigade' just saying no to anything commercial, has it ever occurred to you that your rantings immediately qualify you for a ranking position in the 'anti-anythingFree brigade'? Somewhere in your head the words 'successful', 'quality', and 'expensive' have become inexplicably linked and it seems that you instantly decide that if it costs money it must be good. That simply isn't the case, all your comments seem to assert that if someone isn't working for money then they're not working very hard, and if they're not making money then they're not successful. The sooner you realise that isn't the case the better off we'll all be.

And why have you decided that servers running freeware IRCds are filled with bots but CR servers aren't?


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21317 02/05/03 01:23 PM
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MonoSex Offline
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Your statement about fserve channels is ridiculous. Even if 50% users of each network are bots (i doubt it) , it still give you thousands of active users.

And don't tell me that fserve bots don't put load on servers. Have you ever been in such channel? They're more active than your idling users...

Ok, let's end this thread, it's way off topic now.
We all know that you'd die for your CR.

EOT

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21318 02/05/03 08:04 PM
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codemastr Offline
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My MDX based mp3 player? When did Windows Media Player start using MDX??? Does DragonZap know about this, he is probably entitled to some sort of compensation. And also I like how you bring up unrelated topics, what does the speed of mIRCs scripting language have to do with CR? Oh thats right, nothing. What does what I do/don't use for an mp3 player have to do with CR? Again, nothing. But surely MDX relates to CR? Oh wait, again, it doesn't.

I don't care what you choose for your IRCd, waste your money, do you think that hurts me? No it makes me happy, it makes me realize that when I'm developing software, no matter what I charge, there will always be some people out there who will be willing to buy it even though they are wasting their money. So please use CR, you harm me in no way at all.

And in any case since you mentioned speed, CR is written in C++. A program written in C++ is generally slower than a program written in C (OOP has some performance hits). Just about every other IRCd is written in C. Therefore, at a very low level, the other IRCds already have an advantage. But go ahead and insult my judgement, I mean I only started working with IRC/IRCd/coding yesterday. Oh wait, I've been using IRC for 5 years, coding my own IRCd for 3 years, and programming for 7years...

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21319 03/05/03 01:26 AM
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Watchdog: You make a big thing about the 'anti-AnythingBig brigade' just saying no to anything commercial, has it ever occurred to you that your rantings immediately qualify you for a ranking position in the 'anti-anythingFree brigade'?

Nope: I use VNC which is freeware and prefer it to PC Anywhere which is commercial software so where do you get the idea that I am against free software?

In addition, I have also conducted celebrity/auditorium chats and I know that you are not fully aware of how they work. If you did you would realise that +m is not the only mode involved in setting one up, at least in software that has many functions and options. Don't get me wrong, I am not holding that against you but you are professing to understand fully when you clearly don't.

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Monosex: Actually think about what you say - a bot puts nowhere near the load in a server an active human chatter does. The top ten channels on most big networks with dozens of servers are all wares channels with mostly bots + a few leachers. If those, say, 1000 users were real people speaking to each other, on main or in private I would think you'd find a far bigger load albiet one that the IRCd should still be able to tolerate. At the end of the day I am not disputing that a freeware IRCd is good, I am just saying that commercial software (in this case) is superior.

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codemaster: In another post re: mIRC language support you quoted that an MDX based dialogue for your MP3's was stalling your mIRC for 10 secs in which I replied with a three line mIRC script that does the same job in about a 10th of a second, that is what I referred to before.

Here you are quoting your CV, though the thing is, no-one has ridiculed or disputed it so I don't know what you are trying to gain apart from using this forum to flog your product. Before you accuse me of digressing from the thrust of this thread I'll just remind you that until you and Starbucks started there was no mention of anything but room modes relating to private chats. My reference to 'fantastic' could hardly be attributed to a change of subject.

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In short guys, I am not paid by Webmasters, nor do I think that CR is the one and only. But in the experience I have had with it - it simply does the job I want it to do and freeware does not. Not because freeware is freeware but because the inclusion of the required functions that has the scalabilitythat CR has is not available in freeware or indeed alot of other commercial software such as Chatspace and IRC Plus. You would only regard it as a waste of money if you do not require the scalability and functionality that CR offers.

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... #21320 05/05/03 12:35 AM
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theAncinetOne Offline
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Moderated events require attention to few simple yet very important aspects.

There is one aspect of moderated chat that is underestimated by most people - these events attract people who have never chatted before and may not chat again. They arrive in your channel on the hour and have zero time to learn how IRC works, how to message a person and so on. (+m) moderation mode as per standards IRCd means you need to educate people how to message the moderators.

Another aspect of the classical +m is a single direction of the questions. This again is not suitable if there needs to be more than one person making a decision if the question is admissible or not. You may think it is while the artistís management may have other ideas.

Moderation is about arranging questions in topical groups, filtering them, getting artist's message across, providing mix of topical and of topic questions to make the event interesting and not boring. The star guest and the audience do not care about IRCd. They are there for each other and the mechanics behind the medium are the least of their interest.

1. Such event can attract unusually high number of people into a single room. Having +A means you do not download the user list upon joining of the channel, which in such cases can be of substantial size. This mode also suppresses many other messages. In a busy channel as interview auditorium you want the guests to concentrate on the event not on flood of technical messages irrelevant to the event.

2. Pairing of rooms using +M and +N, where one of the rooms is only for moderator to select questions from. This pairing means you can have a number of moderators involved, and secondly it means users simply ask questions to the channel, all of them get redirected to the moderator's room.

3. http://chat.bigpond.com/manual/main.html event management wizard allows for easy management of the question queue if you chose to use it.

4. Automatic spawning of new rooms that see the same event. This is often called Auditorium Rows by CR and many other chat systems, which provide auditorium facilities.

Last edited by theAncinetOne; 05/05/03 12:39 AM.
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