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Your own modes prohibit you.....................

Posted By: alilopimp

Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 28/04/03 05:43 AM

Everything seem to be working fine but when I message a user on a private window. It says "Your own modes prohibit you from sending that type of message".

If anyone could help solve my problem... leave me your remarks!
Posted By: codemastr

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 28/04/03 05:44 AM

Hmm, well I've never seen that message before but apparently it has to do with what modes you have set, can you type //echo -a $usermode and paste the result here? Also the name of the network you use and server name could be helpful. Also you may want to try joining #mirc #help #operhelp etc on the network you use and ask there, they most likely can help you better than we can.
Posted By: Nimue

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 28/04/03 05:49 AM

Read this thread
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 28/04/03 01:06 PM

As far as I know this message is peculiar to ConferenceRoom (CR).

CR V2.0 has a mode +M which once represented the Malaysian client class, but due to CR's implementation of some IRCX properties the +M now blocks private chats. If you are on Webnet which use the CR software then this is likely to be why you cannot send a message. Just type /umode -M (Make sure you use the BIG M not lowercase as modes are case-sensitive.)
Posted By: c0ldfusi0n

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 28/04/03 06:16 PM

A little correction to WatchDog's post, not that it's very important, but it could lead to some confusion among CR-based server users. The usermode +M on WebNet does not stand for private chats blocking, at least not at 100%.
Since WebNet is WebMaster's test network (developers of ConferenceRoom), all the features are tested there before being implemented in new CR releases. The user mode +m is actually the one you need to set if you want to block all incoming messages. But as we all know, user modes are case sensitive. The user mode +M will allow you to query nicknames that are in a common channel (a channel you and someone both are in), and it will also filter any incoming messages from users that are not in a channel you are also in.

Hope it helps.
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 29/04/03 04:19 AM

Point taken - My network uses this fantastic IRCd too though we are on V2.0.1 Just slightly behind the version being tested so we don't have the +m and +M modes yet. Hope they release V2.0.2 soon though :-)
Posted By: c0ldfusi0n

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 29/04/03 05:58 AM

You should add 'expansive' just beside that 'fantastic' part, but yeah, it's a good iRCd, if you know how to work it.
Posted By: Poppy

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 29/04/03 07:02 AM

As a channel op I get a bit fed up of telling people over and over to /umode -M when they ask why they can't send private messages. It's especially difficult for java guests to see the screen at the best of times, let alone wonder what on earth 'modes' are about. It's not just java guests though - a lot of people using irc clients don't have a clue what it means either. crazy
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 29/04/03 10:14 AM

I feel that users should spend a few mins each month making themselves aware of changes made to IRC. Server admins spend countless hours providing IRC related information (my server has one of the 'Net's biggest IRC help sites) yet few take the small amount of time required to 'brush up'.

I can appreciate that some people are not computer-literate whilst others know just about everything, I consider myself about 2/3 the way up the scale, an average user, however when need be I make the effort to read things and if I already know it then so be it.

Owners of channel websites could lend a hand here too - instead of linking to every mIRC script known to modern man and running forums for chatters to let steam off at each other they could provide either some advice relating to commonly asked questions or links to the same.

The room topic is another useful tool. The founder could dvertise the server's IRC info site there or an instruction on the most common question EG: /umode -m or M to msg someone, as per Webnet's #Webchat channel.

One last thing - room hosts should be prepared to help, most are bone lazy and want the @ so they can feel big and tough and often go to extra lengths to get it. Bear in mind that I'm not saing this applies to you or indeed anyone in particular, it's just an observation that is painfully obvious in the IRC fraternity the world over. My way around the repetitive typing is to make help popups and the script I give to other hosts contains about two-dozen of them. Those who prefer aliases over popups could well do it that way.

The reason why usermodes like +M and +m is because of the rampant levels of personal abuse and unsolicited advertising on IRC. Having said that I support the use of such modes. In the long run it makes IRC a pleasant place for more people.
Posted By: Poppy

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 29/04/03 04:19 PM

Quote:
I feel that users should spend a few mins each month making themselves aware of changes made to IRC.


I couldn't agree more. I also have help popups, and am prepared to send people to the official help channels when myself or anyone else is unable to provide an answer to server related questions. I am aware of all the hard work that most of the admins/IRCops undertake. However, a significant proportion of our chatters are coming into the room via java, and have no clue what IRC is. I am also aware that Webnet is currently updating it's website, but there has been no mention so far of the new default modes on the site.
Posted By: codemastr

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 30/04/03 02:43 AM

Yea it's amazing what you can do when you charge hundreds of dollars for what everyone else does for free...
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 02:28 AM

What rubbish, no freeware IRCd comes close to CR for functionality, ease of installation, reliability, performance and scalability. You get what you pay for in this world.
Posted By: theAncinetOne

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 02:44 AM

In an organisation that is not a development house, and yet wants to provide chat, the free IRCd costs more money then of the shelf product, as you have to have a C or C++ programmer on staff or contract.

It is true the feature sets may be comparable to some degree. The total cost of ownership is not.

CR's skinnable Java applet has no equal out there. I can serve each commercial client a chat applet matching their colours, logos, watermarks, and other design components all without a single line of code. I won't mention the applet services integration that is only possible in a Applet + IRCd bundle coming out from a single company.

In short both free and commercial IRCd prducts have their place and purpose. It all depends on intended use.
Posted By: codemastr

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 02:45 AM

/me laughs and goes about his business.
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 03:21 AM

id have to agree with your laughter codemastr ... as i have used free ircd software and never once needed any programmer to set it up or even modify things in it for me .... infact id have to also say that ive also got a java aplet which has the ability to understand multiple services built into it ..... plus it wasnt near the cost of some of these others out there ..... why go and pay a fortune for something u can get a heck of alot cheaper and it work just as well
Posted By: theAncinetOne

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 03:54 AM

OK, you have my attention.
Which java applet are you using that is services aware?
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 04:18 AM

As The AncientOne said, it depends on what you want to do. If you are setting up a small server on a shell account and are catering only for one customer base then a free IRCd + services + optionally a java applet may be fine.

If you have hundreds or even thousands of customers it's far from acceptable to throw a product base like this at them. They will want something that is customisable. If you guys realised what the CR Java applet is capable of then you'd appreciate why CR costs alot of money. The Java applet is but one small example, there are others. EG: What freeware IRCd can run a commercial or celebrity 'auditorium' type of chat where the conversation is burnt to a HTML file in real time generated by the IRCd? There might be one but most coders of freeware IRCd's concentrate on things that commercial entites are not interested in such as HalfOp compatibility or ban exceptions. Good features but not terribly important in the market that commercial software serves.

The reference to a C programmer was made because if you wanted a freeware IRCd to perform some of the functions that CR has then you would infact need a programmer to make that happen.

Getting back to Java applets, most third party applets don't even support basic IRC commands such as /whois let alone be able to be skinned, colour coded, bordeless option, full event parameter support, etc.

The good thing about CR is that everything comes together in one single download. IRCd, Distributed Services, Web server, Java applet, WAP Client, SSL, Roomholders, the best and most comprehensive server notices in the business, you name it. Then there is AdminServ providing the ability to make changes to all the configuration files from mIRC, Java or another client. Then there is the built in remote configuration server allowing the same ease of use from any machine in the world that has a web browser and can connect to the web.

To each their own, but here's what I would do if I started a chat service:

1. Colocated server
2. CR (latest version)

Shell account and freeware? No chance. The $7000 I would pay for CR is chickenfeed when you look at what you get for it.
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 07:06 AM

jwirc is services aware ... u simply have to tell it how to imput to services in the setup string ..... then it has a very extensive preloaded services popups loaded into it ..... plus the ability to add your own very easily ..... i know it looks like a simple applet but it is very easy to use and alot of the ppl that use it thru my site have said its simple
Posted By: MonoSex

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 02:27 PM

Quote:
If you have hundreds or even thousands of customers it's far from acceptable to throw a product base like this at them.



DALnet:

Current global users: 39745 Max: 96747
bahamut-1.4(35). kernel.ga.us.dal.net CiIM TS5ow-r[RELEASE]


UnderNet:

There are 48067 users and 69813 invisible on 38 servers
u2.10.11.04. Amsterdam.NL.EU.undernet.org B30AEFfIKMpSUv


IRCnet:

Current global users: 120162 Max: 130855
2.10.3p3+hemp. warszawa.irc.pl aEFHiIJKMpRtTuwZ


EFnet:

Current global users: 128743 Max: 136513
2.8/hybrid-6.3.1(20020418_1). irc.efnet.pl ACeGiKMpZ TS5owc

...

Guess what, those IRCds are FREE grin
Posted By: starbucks_mafia

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 07:00 PM

Too bad the developers don't give a discount if you talk up their software. I dare say you'd be getting CR for free anyway by now if they did.

As for the auditorium mode, +m and a 20 line mIRC logging script and I've saved myself a few thousand £'s.
Posted By: codemastr

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 01/05/03 10:03 PM

Again, I laugh and go about my business...
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 02/05/03 03:38 AM

I am talking about customers that developers build websites and online communities for. IRC users are not customers since the service is free. They are users or chatters.

If a web developer approached one of his customers and offered a chat solution such as a rip of Dreamforge + third party java applet + third party services + shell account then he would no doubt get laughed at.

I have four chatrooms accessible from my own website and while I haven't ordered complete customisation (due to the fact that my website is commercial-free and as such does not earn revenue) the solution I have craps all over any freeware.

I would prefer to be backed by a Government owned telecommunications giant who has tested a range of software solutions before choosing the best one for the job than rely on people that have only ever seen one side to the story and based their decision on others that fit into the same catagory. What I am talking about here is the typical anti-Microsoft, anti-Windows, anti-AnythingBig brigade who live in tall poppy land because they haven't got the vision or courage to become big themselves, probably because jealousy dominates their lives.

As for your quote on the number of users some servers have, that's real good doing the rounds doing /lusers checks on the bot/fserve domains out there. I'm sure all these bots that put up half-hourly notices quoting FTP addresses puts a REAAAALLLLL BIIIIGGGG load on the servers. IRCnet and EFnet don't have services either so the longer term median load is cut in half straight away.
Posted By: theAncinetOne

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 02/05/03 03:44 AM

Impressive numbers. And I bet they don't have a need for a single C programmer. Ah, they have a whole team of them - yes that costs nothing out there - but not in commercial companies.

They all come with intergrated services, web server and web applet. They don't? Really?

What are we talking about again?

Suitable product for suitable purpose. Yep, I'm with you.
Posted By: theAncinetOne

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 02/05/03 03:50 AM

+m and and a mIRC script. Right
/me laughs even louder now.

Dont' thinks so when one of your chat customers is a national Football League, including all the participating teams or top 10 radio stations.

+m, lol - you have never moderated a commercial event or understand the requirements of one.

BTW, I still say each product for its purpose. The free IRCds are fatastic for promotion and easy access of IRC.
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 02/05/03 05:15 AM

codemaster: It is good that you "laugh" at this - You are the one that relies on MDX to satisfy your need for a mIRC based MP3 player yet you blame mIRC's scripting language for the lag you get when trying to raise the dialogue.

In knowing that in this case the tradesman blames the tools, and the wrong ones at that, for the ill-will he is suffering why should I trust your opinion on something more serious such as IRCd choice?
Posted By: starbucks_mafia

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 02/05/03 12:42 PM

And you're laughing because...? No I haven't personally hosted an event like that, but that doesn't mean I don't understand what's required. Try giving a reason why +a is so much better. Yes that's right, a reason. Say it with me now: r-e-a-s-o-n.

Watchdog: You make a big thing about the 'anti-AnythingBig brigade' just saying no to anything commercial, has it ever occurred to you that your rantings immediately qualify you for a ranking position in the 'anti-anythingFree brigade'? Somewhere in your head the words 'successful', 'quality', and 'expensive' have become inexplicably linked and it seems that you instantly decide that if it costs money it must be good. That simply isn't the case, all your comments seem to assert that if someone isn't working for money then they're not working very hard, and if they're not making money then they're not successful. The sooner you realise that isn't the case the better off we'll all be.

And why have you decided that servers running freeware IRCds are filled with bots but CR servers aren't?
Posted By: MonoSex

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 02/05/03 01:23 PM

Your statement about fserve channels is ridiculous. Even if 50% users of each network are bots (i doubt it) , it still give you thousands of active users.

And don't tell me that fserve bots don't put load on servers. Have you ever been in such channel? They're more active than your idling users...

Ok, let's end this thread, it's way off topic now.
We all know that you'd die for your CR.

EOT
Posted By: codemastr

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 02/05/03 08:04 PM

My MDX based mp3 player? When did Windows Media Player start using MDX??? Does DragonZap know about this, he is probably entitled to some sort of compensation. And also I like how you bring up unrelated topics, what does the speed of mIRCs scripting language have to do with CR? Oh thats right, nothing. What does what I do/don't use for an mp3 player have to do with CR? Again, nothing. But surely MDX relates to CR? Oh wait, again, it doesn't.

I don't care what you choose for your IRCd, waste your money, do you think that hurts me? No it makes me happy, it makes me realize that when I'm developing software, no matter what I charge, there will always be some people out there who will be willing to buy it even though they are wasting their money. So please use CR, you harm me in no way at all.

And in any case since you mentioned speed, CR is written in C++. A program written in C++ is generally slower than a program written in C (OOP has some performance hits). Just about every other IRCd is written in C. Therefore, at a very low level, the other IRCds already have an advantage. But go ahead and insult my judgement, I mean I only started working with IRC/IRCd/coding yesterday. Oh wait, I've been using IRC for 5 years, coding my own IRCd for 3 years, and programming for 7years...
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 03/05/03 01:26 AM

Watchdog: You make a big thing about the 'anti-AnythingBig brigade' just saying no to anything commercial, has it ever occurred to you that your rantings immediately qualify you for a ranking position in the 'anti-anythingFree brigade'?

Nope: I use VNC which is freeware and prefer it to PC Anywhere which is commercial software so where do you get the idea that I am against free software?

In addition, I have also conducted celebrity/auditorium chats and I know that you are not fully aware of how they work. If you did you would realise that +m is not the only mode involved in setting one up, at least in software that has many functions and options. Don't get me wrong, I am not holding that against you but you are professing to understand fully when you clearly don't.

-----------------------------------------

Monosex: Actually think about what you say - a bot puts nowhere near the load in a server an active human chatter does. The top ten channels on most big networks with dozens of servers are all wares channels with mostly bots + a few leachers. If those, say, 1000 users were real people speaking to each other, on main or in private I would think you'd find a far bigger load albiet one that the IRCd should still be able to tolerate. At the end of the day I am not disputing that a freeware IRCd is good, I am just saying that commercial software (in this case) is superior.

-----------------------------------------

codemaster: In another post re: mIRC language support you quoted that an MDX based dialogue for your MP3's was stalling your mIRC for 10 secs in which I replied with a three line mIRC script that does the same job in about a 10th of a second, that is what I referred to before.

Here you are quoting your CV, though the thing is, no-one has ridiculed or disputed it so I don't know what you are trying to gain apart from using this forum to flog your product. Before you accuse me of digressing from the thrust of this thread I'll just remind you that until you and Starbucks started there was no mention of anything but room modes relating to private chats. My reference to 'fantastic' could hardly be attributed to a change of subject.

-----------------------------------------

In short guys, I am not paid by Webmasters, nor do I think that CR is the one and only. But in the experience I have had with it - it simply does the job I want it to do and freeware does not. Not because freeware is freeware but because the inclusion of the required functions that has the scalabilitythat CR has is not available in freeware or indeed alot of other commercial software such as Chatspace and IRC Plus. You would only regard it as a waste of money if you do not require the scalability and functionality that CR offers.
Posted By: theAncinetOne

Re: Your own modes prohibit you..................... - 05/05/03 12:35 AM

Moderated events require attention to few simple yet very important aspects.

There is one aspect of moderated chat that is underestimated by most people - these events attract people who have never chatted before and may not chat again. They arrive in your channel on the hour and have zero time to learn how IRC works, how to message a person and so on. (+m) moderation mode as per standards IRCd means you need to educate people how to message the moderators.

Another aspect of the classical +m is a single direction of the questions. This again is not suitable if there needs to be more than one person making a decision if the question is admissible or not. You may think it is while the artistís management may have other ideas.

Moderation is about arranging questions in topical groups, filtering them, getting artist's message across, providing mix of topical and of topic questions to make the event interesting and not boring. The star guest and the audience do not care about IRCd. They are there for each other and the mechanics behind the medium are the least of their interest.

1. Such event can attract unusually high number of people into a single room. Having +A means you do not download the user list upon joining of the channel, which in such cases can be of substantial size. This mode also suppresses many other messages. In a busy channel as interview auditorium you want the guests to concentrate on the event not on flood of technical messages irrelevant to the event.

2. Pairing of rooms using +M and +N, where one of the rooms is only for moderator to select questions from. This pairing means you can have a number of moderators involved, and secondly it means users simply ask questions to the channel, all of them get redirected to the moderator's room.

3. http://chat.bigpond.com/manual/main.html event management wizard allows for easy management of the question queue if you chose to use it.

4. Automatic spawning of new rooms that see the same event. This is often called Auditorium Rows by CR and many other chat systems, which provide auditorium facilities.
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