Forums General Discussion My complaint and criticism against Efnet #mIRC.

Quite frankly you think of IRC far too deeply. As with many IRC channels, its rules are quite flexible, and some situations call for a ban and some don't. Op discretion. Don't like it? Leave. Or be banned, as you probably were. It's as simple as that.

If I remember correctly, your script was informing users when they were unbanned. We don't want you to do that, and you were asked a number of times to stop using it. You point blank refused, because you think you have a right to do what you want, just because certain other people have gotten away with using scripts. Apart from the fact that it's none of your business what other people do, the point is this: you were asked to stop doing something, you refused, you were banned. Welcome to IRC.

Regards,

Basically, I'd have to agree with Mentality about this. Ops can enforce rules however they want to. Preferably, they do it fairly, but whether or not it's fair, it's up to them. Unless other ops and/or the founder decides to prevent it, of course.

That said, I've never found Efnet to be particularly welcoming. I try to avoid it for the most part. The #mIRC channel can be helpful at times and at other times you can find people acting pretty bad in there. But like I said, that's not just #mIRC, but Efnet in general... and just my own personal experiences on that network. And that isn't to say that everyone is like that. There are a lot of helpful people there. Unfortunately, there also seems to be a disproportionate number of annoying/troublemaking people there as well. And then there's the issue where most channels on Efnet require users to figure out where their rules are in order to follow them rather than actually pointing the user to the correct location either with a topic or a message or something. That causes a lot of people, especially new users who don't know to even look for rules when there isn't anything in the channel that even references them, to be banned. And then there are rules that are, imo, rather stupid rules that aren't really useful and just harm those who don't know about them and are likely to break them without intending to do anything wrong. Yes, sometimes ops will warn you and then you're ok... other times they'll ban you outright without even telling you why you were banned. What I've found is that avoiding talking except when absolutely necessary in any channel on Efnet is the safest thing to do. And that's the *only* network where I feel that way... and I know a LOT of people who also avoid that network for the same reason. That should tell people something about how it's being run, but apparently those on it don't really care that much and that's fine. It all goes back to the original thing I said... ops can do what they want in their own channel, whether it's fair or not.

... but I haven't opped in EFnet #mIRC for years. Where is this coming from?

You need to get laid.

lmao

Bans have reasons. Unbans have reasons. I value them both.

Quite simply I believe everyone has the equal priviledge of knowing when they are unbanned from a channel they are not in. If the ban is removed, then they have every equal priviledge of joining if they want to. I do not consider this a distraction because it does not output publicly to the channel.

I also believe what goes on in private (such as in notice) is outside channel jurisdiction. I was once banned because I helped a user in p.m. rather than in the channel and foolishly let the channel know. That's another thing I forgot to add.

It is true that it is pretty meaningless to let someone on the blacklist (or ChanServ akick list) know that they are unbanned. But then, those bans don't need to be removed. People ban people for reasons. I hope people unban people for reasons as well. They should both be equally important.

-Neal.

Fail.

Hey this would make a good Festivus thread.

Does anybody have a pole?

Informing trolls that they can now return for another round is not a good idea if you want to remain in any channel for a reasonable length of time. That is enough reason to ban you, regardless of any other channel policies.


Hosts can be changed too. Perhaps we should stop setting bans altogether, then.

While it's true that idents are not particularly difficult to change on most systems, not everyone knows how to change their ident, nor is everyone inclined towards spending their time evading bans. Most channel operators will set reasonably narrow bans and then widen them as needed, which is exactly as it should be.

To follow on from that, sometimes bans need to be placed that affect a large number of users; for example bans set against botnets or ban evaders. The removal of such bans is not an invitation for the offender to rejoin, but rather to allow legitimate users to join who would otherwise have been unable. Your script is was a disservice to those people, as well as the channel in general.


Channels, particularly help channels, have a level of responsibility to their users. Would you suggest that we did not ban users who sent $decode() worms to our visitors? Helping in private is generally not permitted to ensure that the help given is infact helpful, and not malicious. Again, this is as it should be.

To conclude: Your opinions, beliefs, complaints and criticisms are both irrelevant and largely nonsensical. Enjoy your ban, I have a feeling it will be in place for quite some time.

Call that slippery slope if you will?



Looks like you're talking about the difference betweel level 2 and level 4 bans. Leave level 3 bans out of it.



You brought up another topic - bans that affect more than 1 person. I have not yet encountered that problem with Efnet #mIRC. I do have some sort of flood and repeat protection. Apparently, in past experience, every ban targetted affected 1 or 2 person. I don't think I'm capable of letting an entire botnet know they're unbanned, especially since the channel becomes well protected during mass joins.



No.



That's a very interesting reason you provided since it takes what bad things can happen as a result of why it is. I can come up with other equally excuses, such that I have pm'd other users for help and they did not try to backdoor me or any sort - should I report to the ops that someone is responding to me in pm? Althought what I meant is that I do the /whois follow and then assist them (particularly for cases where they need help with a bot and script for their channel). The best way I found to help someone with a channel bot or channel script is to join their channel.

-Neal.



Anyways, I certainly can be up for a conversation of what can happen, althought I particularly find more importance on what does happen and what has happened.

That's kind of like, he can be an idiot, so he should be banned. But I differentiate between what happens and what possibilities can happen, despite maybe being interested of what can happen in theory. But I consider them to be separate things.

Hmm, this is the reason why people need a "shitlist" or perm ban people from a channel, if i get banned from a channel, then i take the hint and ether change the way i act, or i wont join that channel again, and a ban is set to stop people to join, but since the banlist only can store xx amount of bans you need to unban, if people did what they should do on irc "chat with others", then i don't think a ban would be placed so often, but more and more spammers and stupid kiddies that do wrong stuff on the channel force the op's on the channel to place a ban. i just love this tip of the way i found on a server i was on befor, and i belive the one that wrote it have a point:

I think that IRC would be a much nicer place if people would masturbate BEFORE joining.

That changed my IRC demeanor, now I can't keep my hands off myself. In fact.....

Unbans may well have reasons, but why are you sticking your nose in? Sometimes banning a troll and auto-unbanning after a couple of hours works, the troll forgets about the ban and moves on to some other channel or /quits until another day. It's not an invitation to return. And even if it was, what has it got to do with you? You have nothing to do with #mIRC's running. At all. Whether you think you have or not. We have a lot of perm bans set in our channel bot, but we don't want them to be sticky in order to not fill up the ban list. Again, what's it got to do with you?

What a bizarre thread.

I'm Santa Claus - and remember, Santa Claus will always let you know when you're unbanned. Merry Christmas. Nothing personal - my script is for all channels on all networks.

And since I'm not staff - I give users the benefit of the doubt.

Benefit of the doubt: they're unbanned, let them know.
None: nothing.
Disadvantage of the doubt: n/a, or attempt/beg/request the ban to be longer if lifted.

My general service to the world.

Ho ho ho.

It's unbelievable how bull-headed some people can be.

It's a simple concept, really. You can do what you want (notify of unbans), and they can do what they want (boot your hard-headed ass out of their channel).

Welcome to IRC

My reply:

1. You refused to do what you were told. You continue to refuse what you were told.

If you're fighting an op, that's reason enough for your removal from the channel. IRC isn't about fairness, it's about whether or not an op can stand you in their channel. If you're pissing an op off, you will be removed. And if you are doing it intentionally, you completely deserve it.

End of story.

Now you're downgrading a help channel / official channel to the level of any other typical channel on IRC.

No, I'm upgrading this to the fact that you're intentionally refusing to follow the stated rules and etiquette of standard IRC channels. Try your script on any other "official channel" and see how long you last.

It should also be noted that you chose to have this discussion in a public forum rather than first approaching an op privately on this issue, which only proves that you're complaining for the sake of it, making this conversation the most pointless waste of time. Complain away.

mIRC #efnet is not "official", by the way, we're merely enthusiasts helping out of our own good will. Ho ho ho.

Not only have you been told the reason for your ban and ignored our request, you also have ban-evaded in the past, and seem to have a war-dialler, so whenever the ban is removed, you re-join immediately.

You can be pretty much assured, you will NEVER be allowed back in the channel as long as this sort of behaviour continues.