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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172221 07/03/07 02:50 PM
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genius_at_work Offline
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I don't have any problem with mIRC having 'emoticon' support, but, like others, ONLY if it can easily and permanently be disabled.

Actually, I think that 'icon' support would be more to the point. A simple text to icon replacement in the chosen windows. Anyone familiar with some versions of the Invision forum software would know what I am talking about. There could be a tab in the config window that simply has this:

Code:
TEXT:               ICON:
:)                  c:\icons\happy.gif
:(                  c:\icons\sad.gif
:D                  c:\icons\teeth.gif


Obviously there would be more options for each item (wildcard or plain text, in nicknames and/or text, etc). If the 'text' could be anything that the user wanted, then the icons could have other uses as well, such as a crude censor mechanism. Example:

Code:
bitch               c:\icons\dog.gif
pussy               c:\icons\cat.gif
fag                 c:\icons\cigarette.gif
fuck                c:\icons\censor.gif


Personally, I don't think I would use the feature if it was available, but I can see how it would be handy.

-genius_at_work

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Mpdreamz] #172228 07/03/07 04:14 PM
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raZOR Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mpdreamz
Same goes for Voice/Cam support.


this would definately suck


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: raZOR] #172230 07/03/07 04:24 PM
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That's such an idiotic thing to say.
Suck why ? If you don't want to use it don't it's that simple. But I'll say no more about it been discussed TOO much and i personally can't see Khaled do it.

Genius: that's pretty much how i would envision it as well. completely optional and configurable.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172233 07/03/07 05:17 PM
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Mpdreamz Offline
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Looking back ill take back what i said earlier about not saying anymore about it.

Originally Posted By: Riamus2
Ugh is right. smile
The main reason people disagree with doing these, even if they can be disabled, is because there are other things that the programming time can be spent on that would probably be a better use of time than trying to do all that silly IM stuff. This *isn't* IM and shouldn't be compared to IM.


Let me first state that I personally would probably not even use Voice/Cam anymore these days.
Saying IRC and IM's shouldn't be compared seems really really odd to me. Even if they're two different things doesn't argue how voice/cam support wouldn't be beneficial to mIRC.

They're both in essence textual chat protocols. The difference being in a textual sense IRC is far more open as its a public meeting ground. IM software is NOT used as a meeting ground, you add people you know. This is where mIRC could step up without trying to be an IM knock-off. It would actually fill a gap thats not been filled on the net.

For instance i met my girlfriend trough IRC. With her living in England and me originating in Holland we both relied on IRC/Voice/Chat/Phone for a considerable time before i actually moved over to England. Since we both knew the same people on the IRC channel we met on we were both on mIRC constantly talking publicly and trough PM. Alot of times however its nicer to have a face and a voice to someone, especially the girl you love, so we scooted off to Yahoo (It's web cam support is brilliant). Would this have been available on mIRC i personally would never have even downloaded Yahoo Instant Messenger.

I cannot think of any reason why mIRC shouldn't be enriched with these feauture's.
I dare you to come up with "other things that the programming time can be spent on that would probably be a better use of time" that could possibly have the same impact on what mIRC can offer.


$maybe
Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172243 07/03/07 08:01 PM
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hixxy Offline
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Who compared it to IM? Nobody said "Hey, let's add nudges and winks to mIRC" which would be an obvious msn-esque feature (as they're pretty unique). Voice and video functionality are not only available to instant messaging clients, nor are emoticons. Just because these are used in IM clients does not mean they are IM features.

As for programming time - I think fixing bugs is really the best thing Khaled can do with the time, but that's not going to attract new users. You need to add things that users from all walks of 'internet life' will enjoy if you wish to stay on top as the #1 client. You could also use that argument about a lot of features. It's not a personal argument against emotes/voice/video.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172245 07/03/07 08:17 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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I was actually referring back to many other posts on the subjects, where it was constantly compared with IM. smile

I agree that programming time spent on bugs is much more important than adding emoticons (which have no real value other than aesthetic) or voice/video (which aren't really a text chat feature to begin with). Other features, such as improved scripting functions would be more beneficial in the long run to people.

Whether it's added or not, I've stated that I don't really care. I'd rather see more important things done than those and I really don't believe Khaled will add voice/video to mIRC anyhow, but I don't really care if it's added as long as it's possible to fully disable.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: genius_at_work] #172246 07/03/07 08:19 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: genius_at_work
Actually, I think that 'icon' support would be more to the point. A simple text to icon replacement in the chosen windows. Anyone familiar with some versions of the Invision forum software would know what I am talking about.


Now, *that* is something I would be interested in seeing. That would be something that would have actual use other than just an aesthetic thing.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172278 08/03/07 08:53 AM
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Mpdreamz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Riamus2

I agree that programming time spent on bugs is much more important than adding emoticons (which have no real value other than aesthetic) or voice/video (which aren't really a text chat feature to begin with). Other features, such as improved scripting functions would be more beneficial in the long run to people.


Most of the bugs aren't even noticed by the general mirc user. Scripting improvements would be more beneficial for you and me and most of the board users but i reckon not for the majority of mIRC users.
Why are we forcing to stay completely text based while if voice/cam was supported mIRC could still be used as a completely text chat based program ?

More people on IRC makes scripters happy smile


$maybe
Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172304 08/03/07 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Riamus2
I was actually referring back to many other posts on the subjects, where it was constantly compared with IM. smile

I agree that programming time spent on bugs is much more important than adding emoticons (which have no real value other than aesthetic) or voice/video (which aren't really a text chat feature to begin with). Other features, such as improved scripting functions would be more beneficial in the long run to people.

Whether it's added or not, I've stated that I don't really care. I'd rather see more important things done than those and I really don't believe Khaled will add voice/video to mIRC anyhow, but I don't really care if it's added as long as it's possible to fully disable.


Only to scripters, since most things can be done with dlls if not with scripting so the end user of a script knows no different.

Adding voice/video would add two extra ways to communicate with people. That will make mIRC's usefulness improve threefold. Adding emoticons would give it a bit of a more modern interface and help it look like it doesn't belong on windows 95.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172308 08/03/07 08:07 PM
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A very large number of mIRC users use scripts of one form or another. Additional scripting options or improvements allows those who know how to script to make more/better scripts for the average user to use. That can offer more choices and features in the long run than a single additional feature.

All 3 options (video/voice/emoticons) are available through scripts, so it is possible to do everything with currently available scripts. Adding them to mIRC allows them to be more widely used, but it doesn't really add a new feature that isn't already used and available.

As I've said, if it's optional, I don't care about them being added. But, I'd rather see other things added that would be more useful.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172316 08/03/07 09:52 PM
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Mpdreamz Offline
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Not having a go at you Riamus i know your position on this but a couple of your comments strike me as very odd.

Originally Posted By: Riamus2

A very large number of mIRC users use scripts of one form or another. Additional scripting options or improvements allows those who know how to script to make more/better scripts for the average user to use. That can offer more choices and features in the long run than a single additional feature.

For one webcam/voice support is meant to draw new people to mIRC who have no clue about scripting and secondly i think there are vast numbers of people on mIRC that have NO clue about a scripting feauture being even available.

Originally Posted By: Riamus2

All 3 options (video/voice/emoticons) are available through scripts, so it is possible to do everything with currently available scripts. Adding them to mIRC allows them to be more widely used, but it doesn't really add a new feature that isn't already used and available.

You can't outweigh built in support for those 3 options against the current scripted alternatives. Purely that noone would have to depend on 3rd party dll's nevermind the rest of the issues. Again pointing out that new users would be able to use it straight away and there would be NO comparability error. The scripted/dll'ed options currently available all fail to deliver big time.

I doubt, excrept an odd couple, really uses the scripted/dll'ed options.


$maybe
Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Mpdreamz] #172321 08/03/07 10:20 PM
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i agree with what Mpdreamz say's , even virc has emo support

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172328 08/03/07 10:47 PM
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Voice/video support being added to mIRC itself would mean a much larger portion of IRC now have support for those, rather than a script. Even the extremely popular scripts like nonamescript have a tiny userbase in comparison to mIRC itself. Scripts would not be very widespread at all which would make finding people with a client that supports voice/video a chore.

Also, if mIRC added it I could see other clients following suit. I've seen discussion forums for other clients and mIRC is very often used as something to aim for. "Add such and such like mIRC", "mIRC has blabla, please add it", etc. And with it being the most popular client, people will want to offer what mIRC has plus more.

As for the script option, I have seen scripts offering emoticon and webcam support but never voice. Got a link for one of those?
Regardless, I doubt very much it's an implementation that would even be in the same league as one built into mIRC itself.

As for the useful features you'd like to see added, what are they? Voice, video and emoticons are all very popular suggestions on this board. In fact I can't think of many that are more popular. When thinking of useful suggestions, you should try to think of what many people would use rather than just yourself. For example, I have no use for UTF8 support but recognise it's a good feature because it makes mIRC a lot more accessible for those that use different languages.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Mpdreamz] #172329 08/03/07 10:53 PM
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You didn't read all of my first paragraph. I stated that a large percentage of users use some form of script. Having improved scripting features and additional functionality allows those who know scripting to produce more features and content that wouldn't otherwise be available in mIRC. These would all be new content for these users to use. You don't need to know how to script to use a script (very clear based on questions I see from users who use full scripts like Invision or SysReset or UPP).

As for drawing new people in... maybe it will ... to a point. Of course, other features would probably draw even more people in. In reality, video conferencing isn't really as popular as people who want it believe. Yes, people use it, but out of all of the contacts I have on IM clients, a very small percentage use video or voice. The emoticons would probably draw more people just because it "looks" nicer/newer.

If we really want to draw in a LOT of people, mIRC could always go and improve file transferring/serving. I guarantee that if you improve and add onto those features, you'll have a much larger influx of people due to all of the piracy that people do. I'm not saying that's a good move to make, but it is a very obvious way to get more people using it.

And I wasn't trying to say that a scripted method is better than a built-in method and I tried to point that out in me post. I was just saying that it won't really be a new feature; it would really be more like an improved feature. Obviously built-in will work better than scripted.

Anyhow, and I appologize for repeating myself again, but I want to make sure no one misunderstands me... I don't mind them being added if they can be disabled. I'm just pointing out the other side of the issue and stating that other things would really be a better use of Khaled's time -- the scripting was just *one* example.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172330 08/03/07 11:07 PM
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I don't disagree that it will make it easier for people who use it. Like I said, though... relatively speaking, not that many people use voice/video in IM, so why would a large percentage use it in mIRC? I am sure people would try it for a short time when it's first added and then the majority would no longer use it except rarely. That isn't based on research, but I give that assertion a 90% chance of being correct. wink

All other clients try to be mIRC. That just goes to show that mIRC is #1 with or without such things. Even when other clients have emoticons, mIRC is still #1. Why is that? If emoticons make so much difference, why is mIRC still #1? Sure, some people leave for other clients, but that is just the fringe and hardly something to be worried over, imo.

I don't use such things (obviously), but in one of the past webcam/voice feature requests, a link was provided to a script that did full duplex voice and video. I don't have it anymore because I don't use it. The link will be in one of those threads, though.

Personally, I don't have much in the way of feature requests. I love mIRC as it is. I don't know what I personally need. However, things like UTF8 are functional (they allow people using other languages to use mIRC). Things like emoticons are purely aethetic (they don't do anything except make it look "fancy" or "cute"). Things like voice/webcam are functional, but I stand by my belief that the percentage of users who would actually use it continually will be so small that it won't really be functional to more than 5-10% of users -- if that. UTF8 is functional for 40%+. Again, these are just best guesses. I'm not going to take the time to do research on the issue.

I could be wrong and I admit that. But I don't think I am. As I mentioned, the percentage who use video/voice in IM is also relatively small. Voice is used more on games than on any other online application. Video is used mainly as a way to record something to distribute, not for "live" displays. That isn't *always* the case, but from all of the contacts I have on 4 IM networks, that's what I have seen. Webcams being used to communicate back and forth was really just a fad 5-10 years ago and is fading out of existence. For awhile, you had computers coming with webcams built in... it's rare to find that these days because it is a dying fad.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172331 08/03/07 11:09 PM
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Isn't IRC supposed to be text based? Wouldn't a voice feature defeat the purpose of that.

If people want voice support why don't they just use teamspeak, or an IM client or, hell, a phone?


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Jigsy] #172333 08/03/07 11:13 PM
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Yes, and that is really what they will use even if mIRC adds the feature. Teamspeak and Ventrillo (or however you spell that) are very popular just because it lets you coordinate attacks and such very quickly and easily without typing while playing games. They aren't really used for general communication because people don't really want to do that. Even on IM, people generally don't want to do voice chat. And with more and more phone companies (at least in the US) allowing unlimited long distance, you might as well use a real phone to talk to someone. Obviously, from other countries, you may want to stick to communicating over the internet, but most people who want to voice chat that way are families that have members located in other countries and not just people who've met online.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172335 08/03/07 11:17 PM
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Well, I'd be in favour of this if Khaled did two releases, one with bandwidth draining features and one without.

Therefore both sides are happy.

But that would be the only condition, else, I'm against it.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Jigsy] #172336 08/03/07 11:19 PM
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If you don't use video chat or voice chat they don't use any bandwidth at all. There'd be no need for two versions.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172337 08/03/07 11:23 PM
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You keep talking about what "most people" do and want. How do you know? You say that the people who want voice chat only want it to talk to people who they could call on the phone, but if anything you're contradicting yourself there. If they could do that then they probably do do that and actually want voice chat for the people that it isn't practical to phone.


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