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#12955 25/02/03 03:40 AM
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Andrew Offline OP
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I am so pleased to hear that DALnet is closing down file sharing channels.

Could it be that such channels on DALnet were used to send out the trojans that caused the DOS attacks?

I hope other networks take this lead and close down such activity. I know it may not all be illegal but I am all for IRC to be used for chatting!

I suggest that mIRC also show some moves to keeping IRC for chatting and either scrap dcc features or limit them somehow to only allowing small files.

#12956 25/02/03 04:03 AM
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In my opinion, i believe that people clicking on webpage links spreads more trojans than filetrading does, so we should take out hotlinking too right, cause you know people just HAVE to click on those links . shocked And how about sockets, you can get a virus from sockets too cant ya? Hell, you might as well even take out private messages, because sooner or later you are going to here of some idiot who actually copies line for line code that is placed into a private message from someone claiming it will make him RICH laugh, or will give him access to the wonderfull world of pRoN!! grin

its not the tools in mirc that screw people, its the peoples ignorance of how to use them. wink


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#12957 25/02/03 04:18 AM
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So you would subscribe to the idea that it is better to show people how to use guns than taking them away?

Although I do understand the point you are trying to make and there will always be some way of getting malicious code to someone I think it is reasonable that everyone work towards reducing the chance of it happening.

#12958 25/02/03 04:21 AM
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Hoopy frood
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take away everyones drivers license and thier cars ...... guaranteed ppl will still die by auto accidents ...... mirc ISNT the only means of virus being spread ...... taking away things isnt the answer ... educating ppl is ..... and yes i do believe in the teach them how to use it properly rather than take it away methodology


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#12959 25/02/03 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Although I do understand the point you are trying to make and there will always be some way of getting malicious code to someone I think it is reasonable that everyone work towards reducing the chance of it happening.

So you work towards that goal by whacking dcc outta mirc, or severly limiting it so that is is basically unusable? I have a different solution for you.....put an option in mirc to auto scan files with whatever virus scanner or trojan scanner the user has installed, or better yet, put the virus/trojan scanner into mirc itself and scan everyfile that is downloaded, automatically. I think would go a HELL of a long way towards reducing the chance of getting infected.


keek: Scots - intr.v. keeked, keekˇing, keeks
To peek; peep.
#12960 25/02/03 07:07 AM
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Although I do not belong to DALnet, I look forward to the results of this experiment. As far as I know, it is the first major attempt to separate chatting from trading, which are completely different worlds.


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Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet
#12961 25/02/03 07:41 AM
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Hoopy frood
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I read quakenet forbids sending or asking for "illegal trading", including illegal copies of software, distribution of mp3/movies, dunno to what degree they enforce it tho.


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#12962 25/02/03 08:19 AM
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I myself would like to see that every network follows DALnets lead by doing this. This would not only free up some space on the network by not cluttering it up with channels that are filesharing. (look at the channel lists for crying out loud, almost 1/3 of it roughly is fileshare) but this would also show who are the real chatters are. But also I think that all bots should be banned as well. Why have a bot if you have a channel service? Its just not necessary. (I've seen so many paranoid people out there afraid their channel is gonna be taken away if it doesn't have a bot in it.) I understand its a question of choice.

Course, these are just my own opinions. The only way I see having a bot necessary is if the channel services are down. To make a long post short, I hope that all networks follow this lead...whether it works or not is up to the users.

#12963 25/02/03 10:10 AM
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Hoopy frood
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It's a good idea to scrap file trading channels. However Dalnet is far from the first to try it. My network has had this policy for 5 years and more with no real dramas.

#12964 25/02/03 10:14 AM
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Hoopy frood
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So you would subscribe to the idea that it is better to show people how to use guns than taking them away?

I know I would. travel to Switzerland and try and break into a house there. You'll get your head blown off before you get your feet through the shattered glass.

Every man there does national service and get's to keep the gun unless they turn out to be a nutter. As a result they have the lowest crime rate in the world.

#12965 25/02/03 01:47 PM
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In what way do filesharing channels affect you again? Oh right, they don't.
- The spread of viruses through filesharing negotiated via IRC is no greater than through any other filesharing method - most of the time the files are the same anyway.
- Oh no, channels on your channel list. The horror.

Filesharing isn't strictly a part of IRC, but it doesn't make any difference to those who just want to chat. The irritable whines of people saying "but it's wrong" are irrelevant, legality isn't the issue. If you don't like it ignore it, you wouldn't even know it was there unless you purposefully look for it.

Bots provide more detailed services to a channel that network-based services simply can't. Once again this has no effect on you unless you choose it to.

The link between filesharing channels with DoS attacks weak to say the least. As I've said they're no more or less susceptible to being trojan filled than any other form of filetrading. The idea that the people on these channels are 'lamers' who start DoS attacks is ridiculous, it's no more likely to happen there than any other channel.

If a network chooses to stop filesharing, either to avoid potential legal issues or personal opinion, then that's fine. It's their network and they can do what they want. But people running around saying that DCC should be removed from IRC clients and that filesharing should be stopped on all networks are just plain wrong. DCC is just fine the way it is (although the ACKs suck), filesharing channels simply aren't a problem.


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#12966 25/02/03 02:08 PM
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Hoopy frood
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If a network chooses to stop filesharing, either to avoid potential legal issues or personal opinion, then that's fine. It's their network and they can do what they want.

There will be more that do this I reckon. The days of allowing 80% of the connections to be filesharing bots and then bragging about having 100,000 users is coming to a close. People are what count on IRC. Bots (aside from channel/server protection) are completely insignificant.

#12967 25/02/03 03:36 PM
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Hoopy frood
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People may be what count to you. Others may have a different opinion, and if they choose to run a network which allows filesharing who is anyone to say they shouldn't?


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#12968 25/02/03 03:57 PM
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and if they choose to run a network which allows filesharing who is anyone to say they shouldn't?

Not me, that's for sure, then again I don't need to. Seems that Hollywood and the record companies are doing the job quite well. Okay, we all know that it is actually possible to share files that we mere mortals actually own the copyright to, but one would be foolish to think there are IRC networks specifically operating to enable this.

#12969 25/02/03 08:16 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Pretty hard to ignore in any help channel, with the virtually nonstop (many times rude):
where do i get movies/music/cracks/software/etc
my dcc wont work, fix it..no, i dont know if i have a router etc, and i dont care.. just make my dcc work
no, i dont wanna read to find out how this thing works, just tell me where to get _____
fserv script spam
infected user spam
fserv scripts that hex mIRC and screw up something else that then needs fixing
why wont this fserv script work and why should i go ask the person who wrote it, you're supposed to fix it.
HELP, i'm infected, fix me, its mIRC's fault

Certainly at least as many ppl get infected by clicking on urls... many of those urls specifically make them think its a site to download something they want.


ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
#12970 25/02/03 08:24 PM
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Hoopy frood
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Many servers dont allow bots. And a lot of the users who think they need a bot really dont. And of course there are many whose sole purpose is to annoy in one way or another or in general cause probs. Like anything else, its how they are used that makes the diff.

That said, would i give up my lil bottie or our channel bots? Nope. They are set up to do too many things that make my life easier. Sides, im rather fond of them grin


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#12971 26/02/03 01:41 AM
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Hoopy frood
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Filesharing channels does infact affect many people. You know the ones that choose to download in there. But If I were to go into a channel to download (and I wont this is just an example) and I got infected you damn right it affects me and the others that CHOOSE to download because that channel contains people in there that are infecting others with that one file. But I totally agree if you go in there and download then its an optional choice.

Now I did not say that DCC should be removed. You are putting things in my mouth that I haven't said. I merely stated my opinion and no one elses and you are entitled you your own. As said I understand that bots make channel management easier amongst other things.

Fileshareing OF ANY KIND can lead to getting infected one way or another we've established that already. As for networks allowing filesharing channels, yes they allow them and can choose to either let them stay or leave. No one but the network admin can say so. I just simply stated in my opinion that they aren't necessary. If you disagree well whoopty-friggin-doo.

Yes a bot can be useful if you use it for its primary purpose channel protection. I again stated my opinion that someone with 50 bots in the channel is not necessary because they are paranoid about someone taking over a channel (especially when you have a channel service that can infact do the same thing and then some) I just hate having to constantly find a network that has chatters on it. Hell alot of the networks that I have been to no body chats you go into a channel that you think may have alot of things goin on well no its all fileshare, *shudders* trivia, or just a room full of bots. Very few channels that I join have people actually chatting. That was all I was stating. Again this is my opinion.

Quote:
Oh no, channels on your channel list. The horror.


As I said roughly 1/3 of the network (on average not exact) contain channels that really aren't necessary to me (oh no my opinion again) Oh the horror! I stated my opinion. But If you choose to use these options be it a bot or fileshare, I understand Its a choice again i am gonna stress the fact that I have stated my opinion (for the billionth time) so starbucks you are entitled to your own but dont bitch at me for having an opinion.

I was just implying that i would like to see most of these networks follow...It does not mean that it will happen now does it!

#12972 27/02/03 10:02 AM
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Actually I think you all have missed the main reason people have bots and that is to keep the channel 'open' and visible in the /list when no chatters are about.

I like bots and think they can offer some features that do enhance the IRC experience but as for file traders they should not be encouraged to use the IRC to pedal their rubbish.

#12973 27/02/03 10:25 AM
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No I didn't miss that reason at all. Again I am stressing that if you like a bot then that is your personal choice. You totally missed the fact that I brought up bots because of users who use channel services also use 10 or more bots for added protection. Its not necessary. I brought them up because some users are paranoid about losing their channels. I did not specifically say that having a bot is not useful. Because they can be useful depending on how you choose to use it. Thats all. Again its a personal choice to use one or not.

#12974 27/02/03 12:00 PM
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Idiots on IRC aren't a result of filesharing, they're a result of people. There'll always be something for someone to bitch about and simply because some people complain about things related to filesharing doesn't mean it should be removed from a network. Hexed exe's is by no means specific to filesharing scripts, questions about scripts are by no means specific to filesharing scripts, and spam from IRC-infected trojans doesn't necessarily come from IRC. It's just as likely to have been installed from a download of exploit in any other medium. Even if it's from IRC, simple spam is just as likely to be caused by someone messaging a command-line 'exploit' into a channel full of 12 year olds as from infected files.


Watchdog:
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Seems that Hollywood and the record companies are doing the job quite well.

- Not really. The attempts by the RIAA and MPAA and similar organisations are pretty pathetic. Sure, they can bully a network into giving them access to see information about IRC users, but that provides no proof of an actual filesend of illegal content. Unless simply DCC'ing a file with a name which could potentially be copyrighted material becomes valid evidence to arrest someone the MPAA can sit there and look at network info all they want, it won't do anyone any good.


The_Game:
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Now I did not say that DCC should be removed

- I didn't say you did. The post might have said it was a reply to you but it was a reply to the entire thread in general. I wasn't complaining about your opinion I was expressing my opinion of the situation and on what people have suggested in this thread.


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