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list on upcomming features? #12708 23/02/03 06:17 PM
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xrn0id Offline OP
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does mirc keep a list of upcomming features and/or what its goign to change? if so, wherecan i find it?



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Re: list on upcomming features? #12709 23/02/03 06:29 PM
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I don't think there is sutch a list, as mutch as I remeber/know.
Dosn't sound like a bad idea thought...

Re: list on upcomming features? #12710 23/02/03 10:45 PM
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There was about this here just a few days ago.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: list on upcomming features? #12711 24/02/03 02:49 AM
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There never is. That is why we speculate about the next version so much. grin

Re: list on upcomming features? #12712 24/02/03 07:15 AM
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It is a question of respect - whether mIRC users deserve some serious feedback from the person living on their money, or should eat whatever they are given.

To people who consider it fun to be unaware of mIRC progress: even if such a "to-do" list were published nobody would force you to read it.


Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet
Re: list on upcomming features? #12713 24/02/03 09:41 AM
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*SIGH*


And all I need now is intellectual intercourse, a soul to dig the hole much deeper
Re: list on upcomming features? #12714 24/02/03 11:35 AM
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Respect?? i fail to see what respect has to do with publishing a list in advance of new features/fixes to be added. And where, pray tell, might i find a list of those things for all MS/secure/ adobe/symantec/zonealarm products please? How about all the hardware/electronics products?

hrmmm... paying for one version of mIRC entitles me to upgrade without cost, whereas most of the others i listed insist i pay for new releases. Gee, since they keep getting money from me, surely they respect me enuf to tell me in advance what they have planned or are considering. Now that i think of it, i spend tons of money at the grocery store... why arent all those manufacturers telling me before they introduce a new and improved something? They live off my money, dont they owe it to me to tell me what they have planned for my fav coffee?

should eat whatever they are given
Have you perhaps not noticed over the years that new versions add/change things users request?


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Re: list on upcomming features? #12715 24/02/03 03:27 PM
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Respect?? i fail to see what respect has to do with publishing a list in advance of new features/fixes to be added

If a feature gets added to some public "to-do" list, it will indicate to people that Khaled considers it significant and plans to implement it in future. Users won't have to waste their time scripting it, posting into "Feature Suggestions" or using the "Search" feature. Saving customers' time is a normal sign of respect; have I said anything new?

And where, pray tell, might i find a list of those things for all MS/secure/ adobe/symantec/zonealarm products please? How about all the hardware/electronics products?

I once compared the mIRC development model with that of commercial software. There was a choir of cursing voices. "mIRC is a personal project, the laws of nature don't work in this case". Let's not speak about software giants like Microsoft here, as mIRC's promotion would look VERY unfavorable on that background.

grocery... manufacturers... my fav coffee...

Do you fail to see the fundamental difference between mIRC production and coffee production? Or was it a cheap psychological trick with "exchange of ideas"?

Have you perhaps not noticed over the years that new versions add/change things users request?

Yes I have.

I have also noticed that Khaled often added/changed things that users were against adding/changing. I have also noticed that things tend to get changed unexpectedly, which breaks many people's scripts and plans.

Have you noticed over the years that people DO want to keep in touch with mIRC progress, preferably more often than once a year? Oh wait, does it even matter what people want?


Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet
Re: list on upcomming features? #12716 24/02/03 04:30 PM
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Quote:
And where, pray tell, might i find a list of those things for all MS/secure/ adobe/symantec/zonealarm products please?

I take it you've never read a magazine such as PCWorld or PCMagazine? For example, last months PC Magazine had a review of WinXP Longhorn. That isn't due for release for at least another year, yet they gave you a run down of some of the new features. Additionally before Adobe Photoshop 7 came out, PC World had a nice review of the new features it would contain. Same with Norton (Symantec) 2003, and Zonealarm, etc. Just because these companies don't come to your door and hand you a list of their changes doesn't mean they don't make the information publically known.

Quote:
How about all the hardware/electronics products?

Again, never went to a hardware review website? I read a review of the AMD 3000+ XP processor before it was released. I also read reviews of the nVidia GeForce FX (which to my knowledge still hasn't been released) back in December. Plus hardware manufactures always throw huge conventions to show off their products. AMD, Intel, etc they are notorious for throwing such conventions.

Quote:
Gee, since they keep getting money from me, surely they respect me enuf to tell me in advance what they have planned or are considering.

Well as I just showed they do give out this information, but in any case they do NOT respect you. Are you gonna tell me MS respects its customers? If thats the case, why are they being sued every other day for illegal business practices? Why are they refusing to release their source code even though the majority of their users want them to? I'll tell you why, they do NOT respect you they respect your money and there is a big difference there.

Quote:
They live off my money, dont they owe it to me to tell me what they have planned for my fav coffee?

You mean like the free samples that companies frequently give out at the grocery store so that you can see what their new products are going to be like?

Quote:
Have you perhaps not noticed over the years that new versions add/change things users request?

I noticed that adding MDX type dialog controls to mIRC has been suggested numerous times, I've also noticed that a "rearrangable" switchbar has been suggested numerous times, as well as a treeview based switchbar, and customizable toolbars, etc, etc. But notice, none of these have ever been added and Khaled has never stated any reasoning as to why they have not and/or will not be added. So yea he adds some stuff, but that doesn't mean he adds everything that the majority of users think is a good idea. I remember prolly over a year ago when I suggested ON EXIT. I had suggested it maybe 4-5 times, and I'd never heard a single person say it was a bad idea. I had even emailed about it to Khaled before the forums had been setup. Yet it wasn't until that 5th time that there were maybe about 20 posts saying how it would be a great feature that it was finally added.

As I said in the other thread about this, a todo list is up to Khaled, I just think it is something that the majority of the mIRC users want. And as Necroman said, if you wanna be suprised, wel then don't view the todo list. It isn't like you will be forced.

Re: list on upcomming features? #12717 25/02/03 01:51 AM
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I take it you've never read a magazine such as PCWorld or PCMagazine? For example, last months PC Magazine had a review of WinXP Longhorn.

I read the magazines. They beat everything up like the newspapers do when there's a major disaster and they usually favour the magazines that will give them the biggest rap. That's the power of mass media for you.

That isn't due for release for at least another year, yet they gave you a run down of some of the new features.

Yep and six months before the release and yet again at 3 months they'll repeat the article and only change the odd capital letter and fullstop, ahh though they'll manage to update the masthead on the front page. "WINDOWS LONGHORN A STEP CLOSER!", sucking more people into buying their rag.

Additionally before Adobe Photoshop 7 came out, PC World had a nice review of the new features it would contain.

Photoshop 7 is stable, very reliable and argueably the best imaging application in the world. What features it contains over V6.0 is a bit of a mystery though. The way Photoshop was marketted probably has something to do with that. There's no 'versions.txt' in there like mIRC has that I can see so unless you read all of the magazines all of the time from page one to page 128 (or wherever it happens to end) and then actually believe what they all say then ignorance is not only an excuse but also a reason. I use Photoshop for web imaging and will admit that I'd be lucky to use 5% of it's abilities, if that.

Same with Norton (Symantec) 2003, and Zonealarm, etc.

Yep, they know how to promote their stuff. They fill your email box with so much "V3.0.1 is out GET IT NOW for only US$99".

Again, never went to a hardware review website? I read a review of the AMD 3000+ XP processor before it was released. I also read reviews of the nVidia GeForce FX (which to my knowledge still hasn't been released) back in December. Plus hardware manufactures always throw huge conventions to show off their products. AMD, Intel, etc they are notorious for throwing such conventions.

Yeah and boy do they know how to stuff people around. Take Inhell for example - Remember the race to 1GHz?? AMD got there first, Inhell followed soon after, all the server admins and high-end PC owners drooled over the shiny new 1GHz Pentium only to find out it was a dud and had to get it exchanged when they started overheating and either lagging the machine so much you could make a cuppa while the machine booted or just fried itself altogether. So much for the fanfare beforehand, not a thing was mentioned about what Inhell managed to leave out of the processor.

Result: AMD got more marketshare and everyone got forewarned about something that would take another trip to the computer shop to fix. It's a bit like the release of a bad mIRC script really. Then again you don't have to pay for a .zip file full of text.

Well as I just showed they do give out this information, but in any case they do NOT respect you. Are you gonna tell me MS respects its customers?

I think they do, perhaps not at a personal level. Uncle Bill doesn't know any of us from Adam, though one significant stuff up with Windows releases and that could mean the end of Micro$oft and Bill's $10m mansion. They keep sending me CD's containing pre-releases for Windows 2003 (Windows .NET) so I guess they like me enough to assume I will spend the equivalent of 3 weeks wages on their server OS.

On a serious note, there's a big difference between Windows, Photoshop and mIRC though. Adobe and Micro$oft are huge organisations, probably with shareholders, that will expect the respective companies to perform well and gain more marketshare, etc. Khaled seems to have the same approach as most mIRC scripters - If you want it, get it, if you don't, here's some links to other programmes. The evidence is on his links page.

You mean like the free samples that companies frequently give out at the grocery store so that you can see what their new products are going to be like?

mIRC has a bigger following than any other chat programme, probably more than all the rest combined. I don't think Khaled needs to throw sweetners to everyone he passes in order to gain any added benefit.

I noticed that adding MDX type dialog controls to mIRC has been suggested numerous times, I've also noticed that a "rearrangable" switchbar has been suggested numerous times, as well as a treeview based switchbar, and customizable toolbars, etc, etc. But notice, none of these have ever been added and Khaled has never stated any reasoning as to why they have not and/or will not be added.

Perhaps it never will be added. Perhaps it's in the very next version. Perhaps it can't be done in 5 minutes while managing to maintain mIRC's stability. I personally don't like treeviews as they look messy but would prefer something like this instead. Just my personal view. BTW this image isn't a real screenshot, just a concept.

Summarising: I think that for a one-off $20 us mIRC users get a pretty good deal. There's not alot of software out there who's author does not expect yet another licence fee when a new version is released. And unlike most shareware it's even technically 'optional' as to whether you bother to pay the licence fee.

In my view, while asking for pre-release information is certainly not harmful, it's a bit unfair to expect or demand it though. The cards were laid on the table before anyone 'coughed up'. It's a case of take the deal or take someone else's deal.

As I said elsewhere here the other day, half the fun in downloading a new version is the anticipation and curiosity it creates. It's almost like unwrapping a birthday present.

Re: list on upcomming features? #12718 25/02/03 06:24 AM
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It would seem we have yet another subject where emotions run high. I wont point out the diff between manufacturers "leaking" to the press to get publicity and build up sales and posting a to-do/coming attractions list.

For all any of us know, Khaled may think this is a peachy idea that he may implement in some fashion. However, i dont think any of us has any right to demand/insist/insult the lack of anything he does/doesnt do or imply a lack of concern on his part. We..well, some of us... pay a one time $20 and get every upgrade he ever does. He obviously cares about users, this board is good example of that. Since he is the only person who codes mIRC, he is the only one who knows why he does/doesnt do something at any point in time. i dont think we have any right to demand he tell us his every step/thought. He reads all the posts here, deals with thousands of emails every day, codes mIRC.. he isnt some giant corporation with tons of staff. If he chooses to list all his someday/maybe/yes/never with reasons someplace, peachy. If he doesnt, thats peachy too.

Making suggestions, debating the pros and cons is great. If Khaled didnt want to see them, there wouldnt be an area here for them. Would be nice tho to see at least an occasional post from ppl saying what they like about mIRC or "great job cause..." "my fav feature is____ because". Postive feedback is important too.


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Re: list on upcomming features? #12719 25/02/03 05:30 PM
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xrn0id Offline OP
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for the reccord, im not insulting/critsizing/demanding anything



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Re: list on upcomming features? #12720 26/02/03 09:51 PM
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My God! If I ever become half as cynical as you are, please shoot me...

Re: list on upcomming features? #12721 26/02/03 09:56 PM
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I don't believe anyone here was "demanding" he do anything. We are "suggesting" and there is an huge difference between those two words.

Quote:
Would be nice tho to see at least an occasional post from ppl saying what they like about mIRC or "great job cause..." "my fav feature is____ because". Postive feedback is important too.


To be quite honest with you, as a software developer, I would be MUCH more happy if people threw $20 my way when they like my software rather than just a pat on the back and a "good job". Compliments are nice, but try and buy a car or a house with compliments, I doubt you'll get very far.

Re: list on upcomming features? #12722 27/02/03 06:13 AM
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Quote:
If a feature gets added to some public "to-do" list, it will indicate to people that Khaled considers it significant and plans to implement it in future. Users won't have to waste their time scripting it, posting into "Feature Suggestions" or using the "Search" feature. Saving customers' time is a normal sign of respect; have I said anything new?


being on todolist doesn't say *when* it will be added. it can be in next version or in 5 versions. so if you need *really* need a feature, script it

Re: list on upcomming features? #12723 27/02/03 09:59 PM
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Wow, I love how you know what EVERY todo list says. I have seen MANY todo lists (including my own) which has an "ETA" (Estimated Time of Arrival) so that users can tell how long we think it will be before we finish it, but thank you very much for generalizing and making it as though you know what every single todo list does and doesn't do even though you are clearly wrong.

As for "scripting it," is that a joke? If not, please tell me how I users who want mIRC to support more than 16 color codes can script this feature in, I'd be really interested in finding a script with this capability. I'd also love to see the script allowing mIRCs switchbar to have repositionable buttons, or a modifiable toolbar, of a for() loop, etc, etc.

Please think before you just say "script it"

Re: list on upcomming features? #12724 27/02/03 10:12 PM
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I have seen MANY todo lists (including my own) which has an "ETA" (Estimated Time of Arrival) so that users can tell how long we think it will be before we finish it,

Now you know why I don't take precursive feature lists with any seriousness. Imagine being promised something and then it is not delivered... that would annoy me more than not knowing. And why should a number of other benefits in a revised version be held up until one finally works around bugs or whatever in a feature that simply has to be completed to satisfy the relevance of one's to do list?

This is quite okay for something like Windows, which we wait around 2 years between upgrades for anyway but for things like mIRC which are updated far more often it would just create more grief. I can imagine that many posts here would then contain complaints about mIRC either being updated less often or promised features not being included. Either way it would be an undesirable reflection on customer service.

Re: list on upcomming features? #12725 01/03/03 04:01 PM
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Actually, he only lives on their money in PRINCIPLE, since most people, if my guess is correct, don't pay.

Rather, it's the users living on HIS time.

Re: list on upcomming features? #12726 01/03/03 08:50 PM
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Sad but true Rounin. I doubt there are many other software developers who let their progams run unregistered/unpaid for indefinately or let ppl pay less if they cant afford the $20.


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Re: list on upcomming features? #12727 01/03/03 09:31 PM
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Every program I have ever made/released is 100% free. Only money I get is when people decide to make a donation, and that doesn't happen too often. If you ever play around with Linux, you'll find there are many other developers who do the same. And no this isn't so "mIRC should be free and open source" post, just saying that free software does exist.

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