And you are not understanding US. We have REPEATEDLY told you that the so-called "position" that you're looking for will change as you add or remove items ... or it might even change the next time you load the hash table. In a hash table, $hget(htable, N) does NOT stay the same forever...it will remain the same until the table changes and might even remain the same through several changes. Position as you define it is a meaningless expression. The method is there ONLY so you can sequentially iterate through a hash table, but it is NOT meant to be a consistent item value for each data value assigned, positionally speaking, not the way you're thinking of it. That is WHY there is no .property or $identifier or method to get the position number "8" out of 10 hash table entries.