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a bit confused #84193
26/05/04 08:00 PM
26/05/04 08:00 PM
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What is Shareware?

(n.) Software distributed on the basis of an honor system. Most shareware is delivered free of charge, but the author usually requests that you pay a small fee if you like the program and use it regularly. By sending the small fee, you become registered with the producer so that you can receive service assistance and updates. You can copy shareware and pass it along to friends and colleagues, but they too are expected to pay a fee if they use the product.

according to this. it says that shareware can be redistributed. now my concern is when people package mirc with their scripts. is it really an infringment of the TOS "Terms of Serivce"?? as long as the copy of mirc still asks the party who uses the package to pay?



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Re: a bit confused #84194
26/05/04 08:11 PM
26/05/04 08:11 PM
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Shareware is software that costs money, it normally has a trial period where it is free during the duration of that trial.
mIRC cannot be restributed in anything other than the installer that you get from this website, and to distribute that, you have to have permission from khaled.

/help license agreement for more info.


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Re: a bit confused #84195
26/05/04 08:11 PM
26/05/04 08:11 PM
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Redistributing mIRC is against the license agreement that you agree to when you install mIRC. Besides, almost every script site will not allow you to distribute mIRC with your script. As the license agreement says:

"If you would like to distribute mIRC as part of a magazine, book, cd-rom, website, or any other form of distribution, please email khaled@mirc.com for written authorization."

It is irrelevant what other websites have as the definition of shareware. Khaled goes one better than that definition anyway - even if you don't register, you get free upgrades and free help anyway.

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: a bit confused #84196
26/05/04 08:13 PM
26/05/04 08:13 PM
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I'm not quite sure...I always thought of shareware as a limited use unless it is registered. However, i don't really know if it is an infringement on distributing the mIRC.exe in with scripts as long the person(s) leaves it in its original state...

If so then i guess people should not include it and leave it up to the user to put it there if it is considered infringement.

Re: a bit confused #84197
26/05/04 08:16 PM
26/05/04 08:16 PM
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eh. was just bored and looking at the threads below this one. and saw something . so i just did a search on different types of software such as freeware, shareware etc.. and i got the same definition on several dictionary sites, dictionary.com/webopedia.com etc... so can you really call mIRC shareware? these definitions are also what is being taught in universities.


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Re: a bit confused #84198
26/05/04 08:19 PM
26/05/04 08:19 PM
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Yes, mIRC is shareware.

If it isn't..well, it is in the eyes of the general public (As most people don't go and look up the exact definition of 'shareware' on websites and be pedantic about it) and whether it is or it isn't, the price remains as does the fact you should register it after the 30 days - as you do with every shareware product.

To pick up on something though:

"You can copy shareware and pass it along to friends and colleagues, but they too are expected to pay a fee if they use the product."

You can do this with mIRC - you just need permission first. It doesn't say needing permission excludes a program from being shareware smile

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: a bit confused #84199
26/05/04 08:21 PM
26/05/04 08:21 PM
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I think mIRC is shareware...Plus Khaled thinks so...so i'm not one to argue about it LOL

Re: a bit confused #84200
26/05/04 08:27 PM
26/05/04 08:27 PM
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NightCrawler8283 Offline OP
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this is true. the price does still remain. and as i have stated numerous other times. even though im for free stuff. i did say that i had payed for my copy....

Quote:
well, it is in the eyes of the general public (As most people don't go and look up the exact definition of 'shareware' on websites and be pedantic about it)


i don'y know what your trying to get at with that one. but. i see myself as being resourceful. i research a little bit before i say something. plus. i am a computer network major at a respectable university. where i have been taught these definitions. and before im flammed for not reading the TOS. i dont have mIRC here at work. which is when i frequent the message boards.

but as you said. in the eyes of the general public.

and as far as getting permission from khaled to redistribute the setup file. i sent him 3 emails last year. and have yet to get a response to either one. seeing as he is a busy man. and someone this busy cant read EVERY email. its understandable. but how can i be asked to send for permission. if that is to happen?


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Re: a bit confused #84201
26/05/04 08:43 PM
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Perhaps (and I am not speaking for Khaled) after 3 times asking you might assume he doesn't want to give you permission to redistribute it?

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: a bit confused #84202
26/05/04 08:45 PM
26/05/04 08:45 PM
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well. unlike others warped view on khaled. i would like to think that maybe khaled is a better person than that. and he would at least reply with the answer no. instead of not responding at all?


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Re: a bit confused #84203
26/05/04 08:53 PM
26/05/04 08:53 PM
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Unfortunately it is not possible for him to reply to all emails as he points out in his FAQ:

"I receive many emails, and although I try to read them all, and I like hearing about how mIRC or IRC has a played a part in someone's life, or about how it's being used, it just isn't possible for me to reply to every email."

I really can't speak for him though, if he didn't reply then it could be that he missed your emails, or that he doesn't want to give you permission. Also, he has some "confirminator" system blocking certain email domains from emailing him. When you email him, you get sent an email by the Confirminator with a link you need to follow and confirm your email address. I don't know how long he's had this, but if it he had it when you emailed him perhaps you have a junk mail filter blocking the email, or you too missed it.

All I can suggest, if he doesn't reply here, is contacting him once again smile

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: a bit confused #84204
26/05/04 08:59 PM
26/05/04 08:59 PM
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Quote:
and as far as getting permission from khaled to redistribute the setup file. i sent him 3 emails last year. and have yet to get a response to either one. seeing as he is a busy man. and someone this busy cant read EVERY email. its understandable.


i just registered a new domain name that i use specifically for email. so i guess i will try and contact him again. we'll see what happens


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Re: a bit confused #84205
27/05/04 06:26 AM
27/05/04 06:26 AM
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Quote:
What is Shareware?


From my dictionary (Chambers): software distributed on the basis that a regular user will pay for it

Note that not all shareware is delivered free of charge (e.g. it may on CD's that are purchased, perhaps as part of the price of a computer magazine, or it may come from a subscription download service).


Quote:
according to this. it says that shareware can be redistributed. now my concern is when people package mirc with their scripts. is it really an infringment of the TOS "Terms of Serivce"?? as long as the copy of mirc still asks the party who uses the package to pay?


The author is of course entitled to set the CONDITIONS for redistribution - which is what Khaled does. It is a condition of using mIRC (whether registered or not) that it is not distributed together with scripts; to do so IS therefore an infringement of the Terms of Service. This is a completely separate issue to asking downloaders to pay for mIRC.

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Re: a bit confused #84206
28/05/04 06:43 AM
28/05/04 06:43 AM
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as it says on http://www.mirc.com/khaled/faq.html

Question: Why haven't you replied to my email?
Answer: If the answer to your question can be found somewhere on this page, I will usually assume that a reply is not necessary.

further along:
Question: Can I create a custom version of the mIRC distribution files, or distribute mIRC as part of my script?
Answer: Sorry, this is not permitted by the distribution license. If you are creating a script, you must distribute your script as a separate file, and ask users to visit the mIRC website to download mIRC if they don't already have it installed.


ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
Re: a bit confused #84207
28/05/04 07:20 AM
28/05/04 07:20 AM
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I teach adult Basic Computer classes and got permission immediately from Khaled to include a copy of the virgin mIRC install program on a CD I give to my students when they graduate.

Most of them don't even have computers of their own yet, so I am simply saving them the time and effort of a long DL.

Re: a bit confused #84208
02/06/04 09:43 PM
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i said this earlier
Quote:
and as far as getting permission from khaled to redistribute the setup file. i sent him 3 emails last year. and have yet to get a response to either one. seeing as he is a busy man. and someone this busy cant read EVERY email. its understandable. but how can i be asked to send for permission. if that is to happen?


i emailed him asking if i can redistribute the setup file as a download on my website.


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Re: a bit confused #84209
03/06/04 12:21 AM
03/06/04 12:21 AM
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I think it would be safe to assume that no reply means .. um .. no?

Edit: ok .. maybe it means "Not at this time."

Last edited by CtrlAltDel; 03/06/04 12:35 AM.

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person. wink
Re: a bit confused #84210
03/06/04 12:24 AM
03/06/04 12:24 AM
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no. because as sdtated above. usually if khaled does not reply it means the answer is on the board somewhere. and since it is a personal request to host the setup file. it would need to be answered smile


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