Forums General Discussion File sharring on IRC

i really dont understand why your even in this heated debate, arnt u the same person that said a couple months ago they were leaving?, and really if u cant understand normal thinking there is a perfect acronym for u to learn <deleted by moderator> yup you guessed it, my opinion of both u and EVH for not being able to grasp the simplisc idea of following rules, Have a nice day because thats all im gonna say on this thread about the both of your silly tirade about something that is so simple to understand that most 10 yr olds get it.

Yet another person shooting their mouth off
that doesn't have a clue because they skipped
through the first 3/4 of the thread.

General Reply: Filesharing is a topic which always leads to heated debate. That doesnt excuse rudeness. Expect that not everyone is going to share your opinion on this or any subject, and respect their right to voice their opinion just as you are allowed to express yours. The policy here is that we do not help with illegal filesharing and strongly encourage ppl to not download anything from strangers. Part of helping is to educate ppl. Warning them about the dangers of accepting files from strangers or clicking on every url they see is part of that. I am amazed that some ppl object to a politely given warning about those dangers.

It was said "And you really believe that helping 'legitimate' users hasn't ever helped illegal file sharing? It's meant to be about morals, but in the case of this webboard it seems more about legal accountability to me. Throw a disclaimer down someones throat then point them on their way to one of the sticky posts. "
I doubt anyone believes that. Naturally some ppl we have helped with dcc probs at some time or another may use it to share files that are illegal to share or accept a file from a stranger. And of course the way ppl word their question makes us walk a fine line. Networks and providers who limit or disallow filesharing dont generally limit that restriction to "copyrighted files", but to "mass" sharing. Mass filesharing involves more issues than breaking the law, and we took all those issues into consideration in setting the policy to not help with it. Legal accountability is not the only factor. Referring ppl to sticky threads on not helping with this, or tips to resolve dcc probs, or to info on www.mirc.com helps to educate them. Many users dont have a clue about the dangers. While it may not be our duty to inform them, it certainly is a moral responsibility. Would you suggest ignoring their posts totally? Posting a simple "nope, we wont help you"? Far better imo to explain why, and what better time than when dcc is what they are asking about.

For anyone with the opinion that they will help anyone they want with whatever they want, illegal or not, thats certainly your right... elsewhere. Here we expect you to respect and abide by our policies. If someone does not wish to help educate ppl about something, such as the dangers of rampant url clicking and downloading from strangers, fine. You dont have to, but flaming those who do want to take the time to explain is absurd.

Judging by some of the recent posts, this endless loop is going downhill fast. Please post with common sense and courtesy. Nonsense and insults dont accomplish anything.

Seems my point was misintepreted and validated at the same time.



Educate them on what exactly? How to resolve the issues stopping them from doing the activities you apparantly don't help with? Kind of cancels out the whole moral standpoint thing doesn't it. What does that leave behind?

1: i did leave.
2: i can think normally.
3: i know i'm a <deleted by moderator>, don't like it? you know what to do
4: i can follow rules if i want to, rules are made to be broken.
5: like i said, i don't trade files, but if i wanted to, i wouldn't think twice, but i'd rather pay for it so i appreciate it more.

As i said before, there is a fine line to walk. While we do need to help users with legit dcc probs, if they dont specifically say they are in hot pursuit of illegal files or files from strangers, i dont think we should assume and refuse to help. My including the tips on dcc probs should have been in a diff sentence to be clearer. My point was that referring them to dcc tips, while at the same time pointing out the dangers, is sometimes the only fair course we can take. If its clear the question is solely for mass/illegal/bot/stranger downloading then we should explain why we wont help with that, which is the point of the sticky on that subject. The help they need is in the help file, in the stickies, which they can find easily enuf if they wanted to expend the effort. I suppose there could be an arguement for not having stickies on dcc probs, or dcc pending because they could be used by the very ppl we wont help. And yet, that would also mean denying help to someone who wants to get a friends pic. In most cases, including educating the possibly "innocent" user on the dangers while answering their question seems the best course of action.

Sure, we know some ppl are only asking for the "wrong" purposes and just dont say so, but we walk that line the best we can. Again, adding a warning about the consequences may give someone info they werent aware of while not accusing them. Its frustrating when you spend a lot of time helping someone here or in a channel and you just know they are only saying they want a file for a friend. But its not a perfect world, and to refuse all help on dcc in general wouldnt be fair to those who use it in the way it was intended to be used.

so _D3M0N_ can say it, but i can't?

One more post with the sole intent to insult another user, start a flame war, or with foul language and this thread gets closed. You want to bicker, take it private and dont subject the rest of us to it. It really is possible to have an unexpressed thought

IMHO:
Filesharing that is illegal isn't a good thing because it deprives an artist of their piece of the pie.
However, to treat the consumer of your product as an 'enemy' and a 'pirate' is just bad business - you don't chase down a shoplifter and beat him senseless, you cross it off as 'oh well, bound to happen' and provide a wider range of free samples (mmm... free candy)

I think what angers most people is the exspense involved: $35 AUD for a CD whcih is made of 25c worth of plastic and a whole lot of burn marks is quite stupid.
It's been shown by people with cd burners doing things on the sly that you can make a healthy profit by selling stuff as low as $5 a pop - sure thats illegal but it's demonstrated its quite possible.

Same thing with books - horribly exspensive, and for what?

Most of these items only have a limited period of mass-selling, and 6 months later the stuff is on the trash heap of industry...

The solution here is to stop with Gestapo scare tactics against the consumer and look at new ways to do things - the EFF offers several solutions.
My favourite is p2pfund.com, as it offers something for both artist and end consumer.

I think the other problem with high cost, low value wares (not warez) is the middleman being supported - Hopefully we WILL see a huge loss of jobs of agents, bigwigs, and the like who milk an artist and take huge chunks of their hard earned money - unfortunately it'll be the blue collar worker who probably ends out on their ear first.
It doesn't take any more than 3-4 people to get a book published electronically (author, proofer, promo guy and distributor guy), and costs very little to do.
If you sold online books and music at something just over their actual costs, we wouldn't have these problems.

Now, as for the IRC being a medium...
IRC is a means of communication. If MSN wasn't stuck through their servers and offered an open forum of communication between strangers, you'd see files being passed around or at least links to such things as FTP dumps and the like.
Its not going to go away.
Prosecution isn't an answer.
Change by both parties is.

Please do not say that filesharing is = illegal.

this is not true and a lot of fileswapping is done over irc. so why not swarming and sahring and partial filesahring as well ?

If there is a linux mandrake you can download it with mirc AND from your friend.

Mirc should implement a gnucleus. Thats all. Or better MLD oneky, it the deverlopers knows the devel language.

so a aol buddy or icq buddy hybridity with irc chatters, this woudl be nice,

And to repeat what's been said to you about a thousand times to the same post you keep making: There's no point making mIRC into gaim. If you want a program that works like gaim, guess what you can do... use gaim.

And for that matter, if you don't like what IRC clients lack in filesharing terms, guess what you can do... stop using IRC for filesharing.

It constantly amazes me that people will routinely come here and complain that mIRC's DCC causes large amounts of fragmentation for large-scale filesharing, that it is often much slower than their connection allows, that the resume function is 'fussy' at the best of times, that it lacks advanced hashing, swarming, and so on, yet their heads virtually explode at the very notion of using a protocol and client designed for filesharing which would solve all their problems.

I second that.

Nuff said.

PM

Well, there is a big difference between accepting
file sharing on IRC and making accommodations for
it. While it is true that everyone should just accept
the fact that mIRC/IRC is used for more than just
chat and get over it, I too would not like to see
any of your suggestions concerning mass file
sharing incorporated with mIRC at all.

Edit: In fact, said goes for your Gaim suggestion too.