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Basic Secure Version #17651 01/04/03 12:15 AM
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Xenolite Offline OP
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I love MIrc in general. I like to play with things it can do, but there is a problem. People who are not advanced computer users can easily get a virus passed to them, and if they don’t know computers fixing it is a problem. I have spent hours helping people fix these problems when no one else will because others could not be patient with them cause they didn’t know basic skills. My recommendation is this...

Make a second version of MIRC that is striped to the basic things only and is not open to viruses and sabotage for the people who just want to come online and talk and don't care about all the cool stuff that makes MIRC flexible. In it's flexibility you program in vulnerability for unskilled users.

For people who love the options and want to make scripts, you still have your current development, but you need a secure, streamlined version. Also, IF you do it, make the install options default to delete other versions of MIRC completely incase they have a virus. Allow the option to be changed, but it would allow people who keep getting infected to get a basic version and install it and fix there problems.

Just a thought.
Xenolite of Dalnet

Re: Basic Secure Version #17652 01/04/03 06:27 AM
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SaX0n Offline
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Make a second version of MIRC that is striped to the basic things only and is not open to viruses

mIRC is not open to viruses. People may get them whilst using mIRC because they accept files from people that they don't know. But those same people also get viruses whilst using Instant Messaging programs. Heck, I could message those people on this webboard and get them to take a virus.

Those kind of people who accept files from people they don't know will always get viruses one way or another.

The scripting language is not dangerous, As long as you don't accept script files from people that you dont know. The scripting language is there for you to write your own scripts, for your own needs.

So "Make a second version of MIRC " is not nescassary, Because "People who keep getting infected" would still keep getting infected. Because it has nothing to do with mIRC, And it has everything to do with them.

Re: Basic Secure Version #17653 01/04/03 08:51 AM
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ppslim Offline
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mIRC is very basic from a original install, it is also pretty secure.

Warning messages regarding receiving files from other users, are displayed every time, until they disable the message.

Only the requirment of basic settings when you first open mIRC (though a small popup the very very first time, saying only this screen needs changing to get mIRC operational would help users).

Why stirp mIRC down to basics, when basic is what you get anyhow.

Users would only need to download a new version when they want to go advanced. When they do this, they would still be a noob (excuse the expression) to the world of remotes and scripts. If fact, they would be more likely to be infected, as they havn't started with a cautious attitude from the start.


Suck it, lick it, milk it then put it away.
Re: Basic Secure Version #17654 01/04/03 02:42 PM
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KingTomato Offline
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Sorry but, if your not intelligent enough to know better, in some respects you deserve what happens. If you can't think far enough ahead to not want to accept a file from a complete stranger online, that is of .exe, or .dll or what have you, you should get hit with it. People need to learn to question what they accept, before they just click anything. Unfortunatly the hardest way to learn better, is from your own mistakes.


-KingTomato
Re: Basic Secure Version #17655 01/04/03 08:27 PM
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ParaBrat Offline
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Honestly, i dont see how this would help. PPl get virii and trojans by downloading from ppl they dont know, by clicking on every url someone shows them, by loading a script someone tells them they just cant live without, by typing something or changing some setting some new "friend" tells them to, opening every email attachment they get.

Popups warn ppl, there has been tons of publicity about safety, but the bottom line is that a "stripped down version" of mIRC isnt going to force ppl to use common sense. You dont have to be "advanced" to know that blindly doing what someone tells you to do could get you in trouble. When i first got mIRC, i didnt have a clue, but i had enuf sense to not do what some stranger suggested...and it would be hard to not know about virii nowadays if you watch the news or read the papers. Some networks block certain file types like exe, ini etc with a warning until you type a command... sadly lots just ignore the warning and follow instructions to accept the file anyway. If they werent able to click on an url, they would do what they did before: tell the person to paste it into their browser.

Dont get me wrong, im all for as many safeguards as reasonably possible, but i dont think a "stripped down version" is going to help. I too have spent a lot of time helping ppl clean up after a virus, and had lots of them then tell me "i dont care about the risk, the porn/movie/music is too good to miss"


ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
Re: Basic Secure Version #17656 01/04/03 10:17 PM
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codemastr Offline
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Should we also make SafeEmail? For people who mindlessly click links and download attachments in emails? SafeWeb for people who click any download they see. My point is, IRC isn't the problem, it's the users. I'm not saying we shouldn't add any protection, everyone slips up every now and then, but if you are too dumb to be safe on IRC, then you are likely too dumb to be safe on the Internet as a whole...

Re: Basic Secure Version #17657 01/04/03 10:22 PM
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KingTomato Offline
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Touche...


-KingTomato
Re: Basic Secure Version #17658 01/04/03 10:57 PM
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MAGE Offline
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you got one problem with that,

most scripts availible for download seem to have
hacks, backdoors, trojans, and the like
to where those select few can mess your pc up bad

you have to look at the scripts you download for that stuff and most of them have 20 or more files and they can be anywhere (even hidden in the main mirc.ini file)

sad state this world is in when people have to destroy other peoples things

Re: Basic Secure Version #17659 02/04/03 02:45 AM
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Xenolite Offline OP
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I have to say, all the posts that are against this recommendation admit the issues and problems, but say they are not significant. Not everyone on irc know what possible problems can be and how to avoid them. Some are kids as young as 8 and 9 YO who are just starting into the realm. Also many adults are also into this who are computer illiterate, and are looking to have fun talking without having to be subjected to the problems that are easy to fix with a more secure version of Mirc. I like scripts, but I know how to avoid problems more then most. I know from helping people who are being subjected to the problems that there is a need for it. All the advertising that happens without someone knowing it cause they got an infected program. My only guess for people who would be against a more secure Mirc are more the likely some of the people who like to mess with others on the Irc. There is no logic reason to not want a more secure version for people who just want good basic chat, and not a fancy script. My recommendation would make it easy to tell people who have problems and are not able to deal with it themselves to simply go to www.Mirc.Com and DL a secure version that will remove an infected version and install a version that can’t be infected. The idea that, you deserve what you get like some recommend are very self centered in there opinions. Irc should be a place that people can come and just relax and talk and not have to worry about being attacked. Not everyone wants or needs a fancy script, and my recommendation is something good for IRC and it’s enjoyment. Not the selfish needs of others.

Re: Basic Secure Version #17660 02/04/03 04:51 AM
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_D3m0n_ Offline
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/me hands u a more secure version of mirc (a piece of paper and a pencil) if u want something secure and safe thats the best way to go about it .... this is the internet ... if someone wants something from someone they can always find a poor fool who is willing to click everythign they see and type in every command they are told and download anything they can .......

educate these ppl ..... dont humor them with security type programs that allows the options to be changed anyhow .....

myself i have several friends who claim to be computer illiterate ..... since ive met them they have gone from ppl who couldnt change a resolution setting on thier screen to now editing mrc files in scripts ...... and so on and so fourth ..... educate your friends ... your gonna do them a larger favor by doing that than u will by humoring thier stupidity


D3m0nnet.com
Re: Basic Secure Version #17661 02/04/03 05:38 AM
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ParaBrat Offline
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you're missing the point.. for the most part we arent saying the probs are insignificant, we are saying that a stripped down version of mIRC isnt going to be the solution.

an 8 yo should have parental supervision while using mIRC, and while there are many adults who arent as familiar with potential probs as others are, they should know enuf that you dont trust strangers. Good grief, even my 80 yo mother who only uses her puter for email and solitare knows there are virii. It isnt the ppl who "are looking to have fun talking" who get into trouble. Its the ppl who rampantly do as i said in my last post. No stripped down version is going to be able to stop that.

Now in addition to wanting a "secure" version, you expect us to be able to do something so that they can "simply go to www.Mirc.Com and DL a secure version that will remove an infected version and install a version that can’t be infected". Do you have any concept at all what that would entail? We give links for ppl to go to those sites that specialize in virus removal and have the knowledge base to do so. We warn them. Now you want a version thats some superduper virus scanner too?

you said "Irc should be a place that people can come and just relax and talk and not have to worry about being attacked". If ppl didnt click on every url they are shown and do what total strangers tell them to, or open every file they see, they wouldnt have to worry. The point is that its the PEOPLE doing it, not because mIRC has the ability.

stranger: hey, wanna see something cute? click on this url ____
user: i cant, it wont work.
stranger: np, just paste it in your browser or go to this website and get the advanced version of mIRC
user: oh! kewl, thx. i'll do that right now.
stranger: great! as soon as you do i have this nifty script that will make your coffee for you, and i'll send it to you.
user:yay! oh,wait, someone said i shouldnt do that
stranger: dont worry, its safe. you can trust me
user: youre so nice

I strongly resent your statement that those against your idea are "some of the people who like to mess with others on the Irc" and are "self-centered" and "selfish". I have spent the past several years and many hours a day helping ppl AND trying to educate them. I spend a lot of time educating myself so i can help ppl. As someone else said, educating ppl will go a lot further security wise than any stripped down version would. mIRC's website and the networks go to great lengths to warn ppl, (as do newspapers, magazines, tv, email clients etc) but not even a version that wont allow scripts or clicking on urls or dccing is going to force ppl to use basic common sense. THAT is the logical reason behind disagreeing with your suggestion. How dare you presume that you are the only one who has any concerns with helping ppl and insult the ppl who took the time to give you their reasons behind disagreeing with you.



ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
Re: Basic Secure Version #17662 02/04/03 05:52 AM
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ParaBrat Offline
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yes, it IS sad that ppl do such things... which is exactly why the poster you replied to said not to d/l scripts from ppl/sites you dont know and trust. If you dont know enuf to tell a safe script, and exactly what it does, then you shouldnt be using it. The prob is NOT that mIRC allows you to use scripts, or with mIRC's scripting language, the prob is with ppl grabbing scripts they have no clue about.

No, not everyone wants to learn to script, but at least take the time to be able to understand one.


ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
Re: Basic Secure Version #17663 03/04/03 06:24 AM
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MAGE Offline
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I agree with you completely,
there should be a more secure version of mIRC...

but WHO will build it?
and WHO will verify that there are no hacks?
(a big problem with scripts you can DL)

and what features will be added to it to make IRC-newbies lives easier?

I do some scripting myself, i looked at about 20 different scripts most had some kind of hack!

when i script i do things to make my life easier when on-line
i don't do the hacks thing (and yes i can very easily)
but i don't because i am among the last few truely honest people out there.

why not get some of your script stuff together and send a no hacks upgraded version to the big K-man himself

Re: Basic Secure Version #17664 03/04/03 11:43 AM
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MonoSex Offline
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And another question: WHO would use it?
I don't think many woud use such 'secure' version instead of the full one...

Re: Basic Secure Version #17665 03/04/03 03:06 PM
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MAGE Offline
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Probably more than you think...
i know a few people in the chats that ask me for my script
(only because they know i don't do hacks)

if there were a DL on the mIRC site it would work pretty well

Re: Basic Secure Version #17666 03/04/03 03:13 PM
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MonoSex Offline
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Are we talking about secure version of mIRC scripts or secure mIRC itself...?

Last edited by MonoSex; 03/04/03 03:16 PM.
Re: Basic Secure Version #17667 03/04/03 09:54 PM
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_D3m0n_ Offline
Hoopy frood
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basically all a more secure verison of mirc would be is in essance one that has all of its settings setup possibly something other than default ... so why bother making a second one just to deny all that??? ...... the answer is ud be a fool ..... instead educate ppl on how to set them up ...... and thats part of why this forum is here


D3m0nnet.com
Re: Basic Secure Version #17668 03/04/03 09:58 PM
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starbucks_mafia Offline
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A 'secure' version of mIRC wouldn't have a scripting language. The thing that makes mIRC 'insecure' (or rather allows users to easily make themselves insecure via mIRC) is the scripting language. Of course since mIRC's main attraction is it's scripting language that kinda doesn't leave much of mIRC left. Still a decent enough IRC client I guess but it wouldn't really be mIRC would it? It might aswell just be another entirely separate client.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: Basic Secure Version #17669 04/04/03 05:36 AM
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MAGE Offline
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like i said,

it is a nice thought but the 'basic' dl of mIRC does very little for the average joe-user

and like i also said
MAKE A SCRIPT WITHOUT THE HACKS
that has all the good things that most users would like
a "channel box" to join rooms at the click of a button
a "MODEs box" to set room modes
an "OP's box" to set user modes
and lastly an "OPER box" to do things like OP-up if you have
that open to you

make the script easy and then post it as a powered-up mIRC at the mIRC site
also add another README text file that has the warnings in
BOLD COLOR PRINT
then maybe they might read it

i think alot of people would benifit from something like this
maybe even learn a little about scripting

Re: Basic Secure Version #17670 04/04/03 11:57 AM
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starbucks_mafia Offline
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Most of that stuff you've listed is already built into mIRC:

a "channel box" to join rooms at the click of a button
Channels Folder - 3rd icon from the left on the toolbar.
List Channels Window - Created by using the 4th icon from the left in the toolbar.

a "MODEs box" to set room modes
Channel Central - setup as default double-click action in channel windows, also on channel window popup.

an "OP's box" to set user modes
I'm pretty sure the default listbox popups contain the standard mode changes available to channel ops.

and lastly an "OPER box" to do things like OP-up if you have
Oper modes and abilities vary depending on what modes are set on that person and the IRCd being used. It's not possible for mIRC to have something that will work properly on all the major IRCds available.

Why would an extra readme file or bold text be more effective than the popup warnings available, the warnings in the helpfile about various aspects of security, the media coverage on internet security, or good old common sense?


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