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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: Riamus2] #172339 08/03/07 11:29 PM
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It could be that mIRC is #1 because mIRC is #1, if that makes sense. Even if other clients were lightyears ahead of mIRC now, it takes a lot to make people switch. Especially if they chose mIRC through word of mouth. Things that come recommended always seem a bit better. I'm not suggesting that mIRC doesn't deserve the #1 spot, but rather even if it didn't it would take a while to make people switch to another client. It wouldn't happen overnight.

I disagree. Emoticons are mainly aesthetic, I'll give you that one, but they're also useful for showing the context you want your message to be taken in. Since there are lots of people on lots of different wavelengths on message boards and chat rooms, a joke may not always be taken as a joke, for example, but with a laughing or smiling icon it hints that you're not being serious. The same could be used to show anger, sadness, confusion, etc.

I was always under the impression that a large portion of IRC used English. When I say large, I mean more in the region of 70-80%, not a mere 60%. I could be wrong though.

Whereas you say it's fading out of existence, I think it's as popular as ever. I see tons of people using or discussing webcam every day. I guess it depends on the sort of communities you use, but I see them widely used in social networking ones (like myspace, etc).

I believe it's only used a little in IM applications because they're mainly used to talk to people you already know. I don't feel a pressing need to see my friend's face when I've seen it a bajillion times before. Whereas, on a profile site I use about 90% of the people in the chat rooms use their webcams. It's nice to hear/see the people you're talking to. It makes it feel like you know them more.

As far as voice is concerned, you only have to look at Skype's popularity to see it's not an uncommonly used feature.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: starbucks_mafia] #172341 08/03/07 11:39 PM
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I've been using IRC since 2000. The reason I'm still using it is because it really hasn't changed very much. Its Internet Chat Relay keyword is "Chat" Its not Internet Voice Relay or Internet Video Relay. To me IRC is professional unlike all the instant messaging software you find today. If you don't like the way mIRC or IRC is then don't use it. Use the other instant messaging clients that already have all those features your looking for... stop trying to turn IRC into AOL...

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172343 08/03/07 11:46 PM
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How is voice or video chat "unprofessional"? If anything voice-chat would be considered a professional feature since it'd be the internet equivalent of a conference call. More to the point though, what does it matter to you if other people use mIRC for non-text chat? The word "chat" isn't specific to text, it's original meaning would of course be to chat as in a conversation - one using voices no less! Even if it were, it's also not called Internet Relay File Transfer, yet DCC SEND is still included because it's useful for sending the odd file to someone you're chatting with and is a worthy addition used by many IRCers (that's chatting IRC'ers, not filesharing IRC'ers) - "useful" being the operative word.

Remember video and voice chat would not affect you in the slightest if you didn't choose to make use of it, it'd naturally be implemented as DCC sub-protocols so all you'd have to do is set mIRC to ignore those requests and it'd be as if it were never there.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: starbucks_mafia] #172344 08/03/07 11:50 PM
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You pretty much covered what I wanted to say, but I'd also like to add this..

IRC's popularity has declined a hell of a lot recently and as such, so has mIRC's and of course scripting websites. If new and innovative features aren't added to IRC itself, or the clients I think the popularity is going to continue to decline until it's not worth using. This forum for instance used to get a post every minute or so. Now it can go quiet for hours.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: starbucks_mafia] #172348 09/03/07 12:10 AM
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It does effect us. Its more bulk thats added to mIRC. The more bulk the slower mIRC runs and the more memory it takes. You can use the say that computers are getting faster but not everyone has a faster computer. Emotion support is unprofessional. Features like this have been requested for years but never get added. Its time to stop complaining about them not being added. IRC servers don't restrict there clients to mIRC. If you want that features code your own client or request them for another client that likes adding those kinds features. No ones holding a gun to your head telling you to use mIRC.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172349 09/03/07 12:15 AM
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Quote:
It does effect us. Its more bulk thats added to mIRC. The more bulk the slower mIRC runs and the more memory it takes.

- If by bulk you mean maybe an extra 50-100kb on the installer size then yes, more bulk, but frankly if that much bothers you then you should also be crying foul about a million other things in mIRC that "add bulk" too. As far as speed goes, that's patently false. There would be no slowdown whatsoever for these features if you didn't use them.

Nobody's complaining about these features not being added, I'm simply disputing the illogical reasons for not adding them. Whether they get added or not doesn't concern me. As always it comes down to Khaled's choice, that's fine. I'm just sick of people using fallacies such as the two noted above as reasons for why they shouldn't be allowed in mIRC.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: starbucks_mafia] #172351 09/03/07 12:20 AM
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You still have yet to show anyone why these features are NEEDED in mIRC.. I still don't see why you can't use skype, googletalk, or teamspeak... Also I doubt it would be 100kb try > 2mb.

Last edited by m33p; 09/03/07 12:23 AM.
Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172352 09/03/07 12:24 AM
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They're not needed. They're useful.

Quote:
Also I doubt it would be 100kb try > 2mb.

- Well neither of us can be sure. It's pure speculation for anyone to judge that, so there's no point using it as an argument for or against the features.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172353 09/03/07 12:25 AM
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He said he's not fussed if they're added or not, he just wants people to use half-decent arguments against them if they're going to try and fight the suggestion.

As for your argument, that could be said about 90% of mIRC's features.

Why add /splay when you can use winamp or windows media player?
Why add DCC send support when you can use a filesharing application or IM?
Why add the ability to chat at all when there are other applications that can be used for chatting?
Why add picture windows when you can use paint?
Why add a scripting language? One isn't NEEDED.
Why add a toolbar? One isn't NEEDED.

I could go on, but I think I got my point across.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172356 09/03/07 12:30 AM
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Well how about a feature that cooks my dinner. I think that would be a good feature can I have that added? Your right theres alot of bs features in mIRC but why add more?

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172357 09/03/07 12:33 AM
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The difference between the suggested features and yours is that it's not useful (or possible) to have that built into mIRC.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172359 09/03/07 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: m33p
Well how about a feature that cooks my dinner. I think that would be a good feature can I have that added? Your right theres alot of bs features in mIRC but why add more?


Because those 'bs features' are popular and widely used. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant really, as no doubt if any of the 3 features were added there would be ways to turn them off so you can just forget they even exist.

As for slowing down mIRC, a computer can process thousands of instructions a second. A simple if (webcam_enabled) { /* do webcam processing here */ } in a couple of places is going to make about a 100th of a second difference in speed if you have it turned off.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: starbucks_mafia] #172361 09/03/07 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: starbucks_mafia
You keep talking about what "most people" do and want. How do you know? You say that the people who want voice chat only want it to talk to people who they could call on the phone, but if anything you're contradicting yourself there. If they could do that then they probably do do that and actually want voice chat for the people that it isn't practical to phone.


If you read what I've posted, I've said that these are educated guesses based on what I have seen and that I will not go out and research it. If you want to know why I say what I say, then read what I wrote. I already explained the reasoning behind it.

As for talking on the phone, you didn't read it completely or else misunderstood it. I said that other than games, most people who use voice chat are families with members in other countries, where calling on the phone is expensive. Therefore, they would want to use voice chat to avoid the cost. This would also be true for friends who are in other countries (Iraq, for example). If you *can* call and it's free, then you would likely use the phone instead of voice chat. I didn't say otherwise.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: starbucks_mafia] #172362 09/03/07 12:40 AM
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See thats where I got ya. mIRC cooking my dinner to me would be useful... Just like you say voice chat and webcam is useful to you. In my opinion those features are garbage.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172363 09/03/07 12:45 AM
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Those features are widely used in instant messaging clients. Like i said before why not just USE the clients that HAVE those features. Everything doesn't need to be able to do EVERYTHING <-- thats what I'm trying to say...

Last edited by m33p; 09/03/07 12:46 AM.
Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172364 09/03/07 12:47 AM
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Quote:
See thats where I got ya. mIRC cooking my dinner to me would be useful... Just like you say voice chat and webcam is useful to you. In my opinion those features are garbage.

- No. Having your computer cook your dinner maybe be useful. There's no reason why mIRC doing it would be useful though. Voice and video chat OTOH are useful within mIRC because text-chat is often a natural pre-cursor to them in many situations.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: m33p] #172365 09/03/07 12:49 AM
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The people I have on instant messaging programs are people I already know. I don't feel the need or want to see/talk to them when I'm online because I mainly use the internet for meeting new people. I talk to my friends on the phone mostly.

IRC can be used as a way of speaking to people you don't know.

Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172366 09/03/07 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: hixxy
It could be that mIRC is #1 because mIRC is #1, if that makes sense. Even if other clients were lightyears ahead of mIRC now, it takes a lot to make people switch.


My reference to it being #1 isn't the number of users. If the other main clients look at mIRC to see what to add, then those clients are proving mIRC's #1... not by number of users, but simply by trying to live up to it. You don't try to be the same as something that's not any good.

Originally Posted By: hixxy

I disagree. Emoticons are mainly aesthetic, I'll give you that one, but they're also useful for showing the context you want your message to be taken in. Since there are lots of people on lots of different wavelengths on message boards and chat rooms, a joke may not always be taken as a joke, for example, but with a laughing or smiling icon it hints that you're not being serious. The same could be used to show anger, sadness, confusion, etc.


I'm unsure of how a text smile isn't good enough to show that same thing. Most people using the internet (other than brand new users) understand at least the basic text smileys. As I said earlier, I do like the idea of being able to replace any text with any image through scripting. That would be useful rather than just aesthetic and could make for some very interesting scripts. It would also allow for emoticons to exist. That is a way to add functionality to the emoticon idea so that it's worth doing for reasons that are not aesthetic.

Originally Posted By: hixxy
I was always under the impression that a large portion of IRC used English. When I say large, I mean more in the region of 70-80%, not a mere 60%. I could be wrong though.


A large number to *use* English because that's the easiest method up until now. Now that we have UTF8, more and more are using that so they can talk in their own languages. Maybe I am wrong at the percent as well, but I still think that we have at least about 50% of users who are not from the United States or England or other countries that have English as a primary language. Of course, I guess that many languages do work with English characters, so that you don't need UTF8, so maybe it is a lower percent that actually use it. Still, I do believe it's a very important feature to a very large number of people.

Originally Posted By: hixxy
Whereas you say it's fading out of existence, I think it's as popular as ever. I see tons of people using or discussing webcam every day. I guess it depends on the sort of communities you use, but I see them widely used in social networking ones (like myspace, etc).


Well, that isn't really an instant communication site... it is closer to a forum/e-mail communication site. Still, I admit that I may be wrong about the number using webcams for actual live video communication. The point I was making is that other similar instant communication software (such as IM) that has the ability to use video/voice don't have a large percentage of people actually using it.

Anyhow, without real researched data, we don't really know how popular it will be 6 months or a year after it was made available. I still think the percentage of mIRC users who use it regularly after 6 months to a year will be under 5%. I can't prove that and won't put in the time and effort to research it to find out who is right. I'm just stating my thoughts on what I feel will happen.


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Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172367 09/03/07 01:00 AM
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IRC will get used the same way once everyone turns it into a instant messaging wanna be client. But you do have a point hixxy. I just don't like to see IRC turned into a instant messaging wanna be type thing... I just think theres tons of different features an things in the IRC community that should get worked on before it starts messing around with voice and video crap. I don't really think it makes IRC better nor really worse..

Last edited by m33p; 09/03/07 01:02 AM.
Re: Can mIRC accept emoticons? [Re: hixxy] #172368 09/03/07 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: hixxy
As for your argument, that could be said about 90% of mIRC's features.

Why add /splay when you can use winamp or windows media player?
Why add DCC send support when you can use a filesharing application or IM?
Why add the ability to chat at all when there are other applications that can be used for chatting?
Why add picture windows when you can use paint?
Why add a scripting language? One isn't NEEDED.
Why add a toolbar? One isn't NEEDED.


Not trying to debate these with you, but I'd like to comment on one if you don't mind. smile

Originally Posted By: hixxy

Why add the ability to chat at all when there are other applications that can be used for chatting?


IRC was out long before other online instant chat methods. mIRC is meant for IRC, so not having chat wouldn't make sense. smile

The rest are valid questions, but I don't want to start debating all of those in this thread.


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