Forums Feature Suggestions IRC is going down

I am a 20 years old - with 5 years since I tried mIRC for the first tyme, IRC passionate. I got to do scripts and other things, played with channels, bots, friends, accesses (I'm a Undernet dude)... for a year I haven't logged in. Lost contact with some friends and other... but also realised smth when I returned: IRC networks are taking a nose dive. Undernet managed to remain constant, but EfNet is half the size it was last year. Dalnet is down so long I can't remember. 2 Years ago they were saying the last Dalnet servers go down under DOS attacks...
Than I looked to see where is the chatting and comunication need heading to. MSN. Messenger.
I wish mIRC could offer webcam support (even if it is not related to irc networks and just an addon or smth) and voice support. But that has to be good quality and small bandwith. At least between 2 clients (dcc chat is a good example of good resources management). Would be soo nice... Might get back some of the users lost to MSN...
If something is not done I am afraid IRC is going to slowly dissapear or remain a fosile used only by old folkes with families. That is trouly sad, since I have a lot of very pleasent memories related to IRC.

even if IRC would going down, getting those thing into mIRC wouldnt save IRC...

look objective to it...
MSN msgr is "forced" (installed by default) with windows.
todays young brats hardly wanna give an effort to learn/see
alternative programs, they only take what is serverd to them, what is nicer and colorful...

their parents buy pc, they get colorful win xp on it and its hardly to miss MSN msgr...

so its easy to click, follow few steps, register and woila...

while all i see today, if someone tries to use mirc:

1. it is complicated
2. it is "raw"
3. it lacks those cute smileys, themes, webcam etc...
4. they use it mostly for illegal file trading

dunno what is here more to say...
its past midnight and im tired so maybe i forgot some things..
but i think you understand...

Take a look here[ and here also. At the bottom of the second thread is webcam support for mIRC (bytecam) an addon I believe. Check it out.

Please note mIRC is just a text chat program and will probably always remain that way hopefully. It's a shame to hear about users abandoming IRC but that isn't mIRC's fault, there are other Windows IRC clients, and Linux too.. I would not like to see webcam implemented into mIRC because every 5 minutes everyone will want to see my face... "And I'd be like dude, that's why we have still pictures.."

-Andy

i agree

text based clients and protocols PURPOSE is to have
mysterious and sometime exciting conversation in which
you need to use imagination =)

this way it would be... no privacy and more spam

What i see webcams do, is only drain your bandwith. Im a gamer, and i like to play games online with my buds, so every kb of bandwith counts ^^ (less lagg if you are wondering why), i don't realy see the points of webcams, some people like their privacy, and it's hard to make frends if a IRC channel was a webcam chat, each person would have about a 50 px or so image, if the channel had 100~ users, and it would be easier for spammers to distract people. also as about all gamers know, MSN or IE or any microsoft product KILLS.
Not just the fact that it wastes alot of memory, but the fact that it has so many background processes.

I.E: Did you know that Black and White (A 'God' game, where you get to controll about every aspect of it, ect) actualy runs faster on Mac OS X than on windows because Mac OS X handles memory better, and has multi-thread support. (and thats a ported version!)
:tongue:

IRC is as big as ever, DALnet went down hill due to the amount of file sharing and spam. The DDOS attacks were from petty script kiddies that dont like being banned or rival networks owned by people whom i would also concider as such. EFnet is not quite as big as it was but its fairly close, and unless you hang out in public warez type channels its virtually spam free.

While a number of networks are smaller than they used to be, you have to notice the incredible and continued increase in other networks opening up. I don't think the user base has gone down at all, it has just spread out a little more.

As for webcams and smileys and other similar things, i think such feature would ruin the irc experience. I think a great many users choose irc because it is void of all that bulky overused and sometimes very annoying stuff.

something i dont get is that ALL of the feature suggestions post are followed with "..well if its optional i dont see why not", Except this one. The way i see Webcam support is just that its Optional a simple check will enable you to use it (default will be off). And it wont go over IRC and fuzz up the RFC. Webcam not being IRC as a reason is narrowminded, i doubt /splay is much irc related for instance

Yes, I'd like /splay removed too! Never used it anyway (except for scripts help or contest)

I'm not 'against' it persay, i just think such a feature would add a lot of bulk to the mirc executable, as well as the requirements it would implement. By that i mean, when you send a webcam request to a user there are a number of things that would have to be done,

1. send some kind of notification, older versions of mirc will be unable to hide such a notification without the use of scripting which is undesirable.
2. some kind of flood protection would have to be implemented for the built in webcam system in order to avoid opening up a way for others to cause your client to server flood and such.
3. for networks that use virtual hosting, mirc would have to send information about the users ip/host, this would be very easily exploitable.
4. users that are not running mirc will be bugged by such webcam requests, and a great many clients do not have such a simple scripting system to hide these.

There are a number of other concerns that come to mind, but such that would take longer to outline.

As for smilies, i have never really given them much though in irc or mirc. After a little thought it seems very possible for something to be implemented entirely on the client side without affecting the server or other users, as they could be configured and replaced internally as the line is 'printed' to the window. It would however require some recoding of the window design. Custom smilies however would be quite undesirable (for one, it would require the use of some kind of control charactor or similar be sent in the raw text line in order to identify it as a custom smiley, which non mirc users and users of older mirc versions would be able to see), which of corse would be the very next suggestion made. Obviously, i am refering to 'custom smilies' in the way instant messengers handle them.

In closing, i believe both features could potentially be very intrusive on both the end user and the server, unlike other mirc features. For now, if smilies/emoticons are that important to you, then you have the choice of many instant messenger programs, or you can infact use VIRC. And as mentioned above in this thread, there is a dll floating around to aid in webcam integration with mirc.

You may also note that the majority of other feature suggestions are based around the scripting language or the way mirc handles certain things, which is why people are never really 'against' them

Edit: as far as /splay goes, it has never been something i have used either, however since it is completely un-intrusive in any way, it is not something i care about either way. it is also simply part of the scripting language which is very different than what is being suggested with webcams or smilies.

IRC has had no real growth over time. Sure, there are more networks now than ever before. I, along with two mates of mine, split from a well-known Australian network (Bigpond) and formed our own about four months ago. End result: two networks instead of one, but 99% of users on both networks are seasoned users, 1% are perhaps new users or users who have come from other networks. I know of another network, of similar size to mine, that was also started by a couple of users from the same, slightly bigger, well-known Australian network, but again, many of their users came from that former network and arn't new users.

When Dalnet was being attacked many users from there migrated to Quakenet which is why it is so big. Efnet is probably dragging the chain because they don't run Services there and never did. To me this is a bit archaic but that is how the owners of that network want things.

I'll agree that many people have migrated to messengers, esecially MSN, which comes in the box with Windows. I think messengers suck butt but that is my opinion and those that know me well enough will know that is simply me calling a spade a spade. Some people like messengers for theirown reasons. I would say that most messenger users don't even know that IRC exists. Others will know about it but refuse to use it because they have only ever heard bad things about it, being littered with hackers, paedophiles and other criminals, etc. Little to they know that such people use a wide range of applications to carry out their deeds. Such activity is in no way limited to IRC.

I've thought for a long time that IRC has not been growing. What I do believe is happening is simply more of what I have seen - de-consolidation, if you will.

/splay was just an example of that theres alot of stuff in mIRC not directly related to IRC ($sin $cos $sqrt etc)
1. send some kind of notification, older versions of mirc will be unable to hide such a notification without the use of scripting which is undesirable. This isnt true perse. Also: a programs latest version should be the standard, this "keeping everything backwards compatible" isnt helping get mIRC anywhere. i mean $v1 $v2 dont work on older versions does that mean they shouldnt have been added ?.
2. some kind of flood protection would have to be implemented for the built in webcam system in order to avoid opening up a way for others to cause your client to server flood and such. it could be dealt with trough DCC in which case its the same as chat and send/recieve files.
3. for networks that use virtual hosting, mirc would have to send information about the users ip/host, this would be very easily exploitable. Doesnt dcc do this already ? i dont get your point.
4. users that are not running mirc will be bugged by such webcam requests, and a great many clients do not have such a simple scripting system to hide these. Like i said it should be turned off by default and on an allow only basis, Theres also a great deal of clients that dont have DCC chat/send, shall we get rid of those ?

I havent said anything about smileys and i agree that i dont want em built in by default due to the fact it will require some special character to be used for it , this will be in conflict with the RFC.

Webcams however dont have to be in conflict with the RFC nor do they have to be a load on the server anymore then DCC already is. So why everyones so against them is beyond me. I know about bytecam and MVC however people who dont know any scripts are basicly fu**ed.

Also i dont think telling me or anyone else for that matter to use a client other than mIRC on the main mIRC forums doesnt do mIRC's reputation any good or serve any purpose when im talking about how to improve mIRC.

IRC has been around since about the time that the Internet came into being. It's not going to disappear. Who really cares how fast it grows? As long as it remains for those who use it, do we really NEED more people on there?

About webcams...

First of all, if you have a webcam set up and you're in MSN or AIM or whatever, a few people will look at it. Not a big deal for bandwidth. On IRC, you're in channels with perhaps hundreds of people. If even 25 people decided to view your webcam at the same time, there'd be definite bandwidth issues unless you have a really high upload speed, or the image is either REALLY compressed or really low quality.

Second, IRC has enough porn TEXT spam as it is... do we really want to introduce porn VIDEO spam as well? If mIRC implemented webcam support, we'd quickly see that sort of spam coming through. Having an addon or whatever that few people use isn't going to create the interest in spamming that, but put it in mIRC, where thousands (tens of thousands?) use it? You're pretty much guaranteed to get that spam.

Third, as mentioned, any clients (including old mIRC clients) would not be able to hide code requesting a webcam chat.

Finally, IRC is for text chat. mIRC is for IRC. Therefore, mIRC is for text chat. Leave it at that. You probably already use those IM clients... and if mIRC implements webcam support, you'll STILL use those IM clients. Why not just use the webcam support in those clients? Anyone who wants to do webcam with you can also use those. If they don't want to use those, then they don't want to do webcam, anyhow.

Oh, and if something like this was ever done and we started seeing ads in the channel for "Type /ctcp nick webcam to see my webcam", I'm going to start banning people on sight... permanently.

$sin etc are not required for IRC, but they are foundations for any decent scripting lanuage...

1) Make the difference between older versions of mIRC and other IRC clients. A number of people will always try to run the matest versions, but don't underestimate the number of people who

• don't know there's a new version
• want to keep their current script
• cannot upgrade because their script isn't working then
• don't dare to change anything on their computer

But back to the webcam topic: sending an invite to a user, either by a special message, a ctcp trigger, a DCC WEBCAM request or whatever doesn't seem that bad. Most decent IRC clients can block messages or users.

2) DCC is one way, but I'd think an external webcam app with a mIRC triggers is good enough, let that program do it's transport, just have mIRC call it (/run or $com or /dll, whatever) with the correct nickname to put above the cam window and the ip address of the user

3) Nope, DCC requires the sender to have a public ip address, or a router with decent port forwarding etc. Since more and more people are behind NATs, there's really nothing much to do about it. If there's no forwarding, it's impossible to connect. Microsoft came up with some UPnP stuff to counter that, but it's only used by malware afaik.

4) Older clients can't change anymore, you cannot ask mIRC 5.8 to include a webcam block list However, like I said in 2), some strange ctcp or dcc request showing in status window isn't the end of the world.

So, why do you need any support from mIRC? Find a nice (free) webcam client that can be controlled remotely (command line, dll, com, listening on a local port) and then write a mIRC script to listen for a trigger ctcp or dcc cam request. Then just have mIRC call that client to connect to the given ip address, and you're set. Now bundle your script and that webcam client in a easy to use installer, and post it to scripting sites. If webcam is really such a requirement for many, and that script works ok, it should spread fast.

You say Bytecam and MVC require scripting knowledge, why not improve those to have a clean GUI so setup is only "copy files, type /load -rs mvc.mrc, that's it." If they aren't so bad, why don't they get distributed? Maybe noone's interested in it?

mIRC could use a similar method to yahoo chat/messenger to counteract this (3 options):

"Let anyone view my webcam"
"Always ask before letting people view my webcam"
"
Only let the following users view my webcam:
[add] [edit] [delete]
1
2
3
etc
"
(tacky diagram, I know :tongue:)

Also, there are a few letters left in the alphabet available for use in the /ignore command, so how about this:

-v - ignore requests from users to view your webcam.
-y - ignore requests from users asking you to view their webcam.

Add everyone to your ignore list for both switches (/ignore -vwy *!*@*) and add your friends to the exclude (/ignore -x) list (/ignore -vwxy myfriend!*@*). Simple.



In the long run, spammers end up with nothing, they just join a channel, be an idiot, get banned. Every time.
I don't think spam is a reason to let mIRC fall behind other clients and not add great new features, otherwise, why not remove the ability to view urls, view colours and send files?



It'll take what, 5 minutes, for a programmer to add code to hide webcam requests?
I realise that won't help users that use old versions of clients but that's the price you have to pay if you insist on using out of date software.



"Text chat this", "text chat that", that's all I ever hear in this category.. IRC will still be text chat.
It's most likely that webcam support will be added in a similar way to dcc (send request, receive reply, connect). Everybody that uses IRC for text chat will still be able to use it as such, you are not forced to use this feature.



Considering the high demand for webcam support in mIRC I'd say you're wrong.



Good for you. You could use the same solution to remove people that decide to spam "webcam porn".

My 2 cents

Jesus christ, go and look at the other 76857785748 other posts about webcam support, you all say the same thing in every single one. If you want to discuss whether IRC is on the decline (and NOT discuss the pros and cons of mIRC having webcam support) then start a thread for that in the General Discussion forum, it's not a feature request.

Regards,