Forums General Discussion Male or Famale it's hard to know sometimes!!!

The_Game there has been plenty of mention of IRC needing to be changed for this feature. Read through some of the messages in this thread. Also, the IRC RFC was written in 1993 and basically hasn't changed.
A feature like this will never make it into the IRC protocol. IRC is for transporting messages etc, not abstract stuff such as ASL. Features like this should be left to highler layer stuff like CTCP.

Anyway the anonymity is what makes IRC so good. It also encourages people to chat more and get to know each other (rather than going through people's profiles looking for someone your age and oposite sex).

I don't really like the idea to be honest, and I'd imagine there'd be a lot of other people (ie. parents) who wouldn't be too crazy about it either. There's a very strong public opinion (mostly generated by the media) that internet chat networks are only full of teen sex talk and paedophiles. Something built into clients which, let's be honest here, has really no other use than for someone to quickly decide "is this person of the sex I'm attracted to and are they in the age range I like", would only further that reputation.

Abstract? Oh you mean these:

Quit Messages, Version replies, Finger replies, Filesharing, Annoying-Ass teddybear popups, Pinging, Sound requests, Announcing what the hell someone is listening to..., Addons that allow you to view the earth in realtime, or any other addon, DLL, any ctcp function, addons that put smiley faces on the "I's and j's" (didn't wanna forget that one)....

Those kind of things?

as far as the anonymous thing goes...yes some people enjoy being queen of the lesbian rooms, false prophets in christian rooms, wannabe hackers that figured out how to bring down the connection on their toaster, which by the way some people love keeping others on their toes for some reason. (puts on his sarcastic smile) You can find me in the channel named muffdive using the nick LillyLicker... NOT



What are you blind? Everyday I see wannabe sex experts trying to score online (sad I tell ya), The other day someone came into a channel and did something off of the beavis and butthead do america movie by repeating "Attention Chicks with big boobs, I am ready to do you now". Profiles wouldn't necessarily have to be correct...I think the optional thing was mentioned. Besides alot of people prefer chatting with someone close to their own age.

Ah well the only thing left to do is wait and see what happens.....

Why not just put that info to your Real Name field?

I don't see how that would hurt anything either...

Quit messages allow someone to give a reason for leaving. Filesharing allows people to share small files quickly over the net. Pinging allows you to see how much lag you have. Version replies are useful to from the client author's point of view for advertising of sorts, and for people helping someone to easily see the client and version of that person without having to tell that person how to find out. All useful things.

I have no idea what an 'annoying-ass teddy bear popup' is. I'd assume you mean a popup which draws a bear with with text. This along with all the other addon related stuff is just that, addons. They're relevance doesn't matter because they're not a part of mIRC. Which is probably why if anything, an ASL identifier should be an addon.

Finger reply. Useful for adding miscellaneous information about yourself that someone might want to know about you, like for instance.... your age, sex, and location. Wow, well imagine that. IRC clients have already provided sex crazed people with a method of showing their info.

Useful? Maybe to you but to me thats just clutter that I do not use things like asking someone a version that they are using, pinging them, finger um im not going there Nobody has ever asked me the version I use. I have never been approached by someone with them saying "Why hello there, what version are you using?" I don't use a quit message cause I don't think I should give a reason for my leaving. and I really hate those people that think they should know when I'm going to go take a piss or when i'm leaving. If I want to leave I will without having to explain my reasons. Yes a teddybear popup or anything thats resembling a picture...I see no point in that at all.

The point I'm trying to make is that for some people things like that are an option. My personal options are to not use the things stated above. Yes thats just me and my opinion. I didn't say that nobody couldn't or wouldn't use them. I go online to chat I don't use popups and I don't have a need for addons. The only things that I change when I download a mIRC client is the font and size and then I take out what I don't have a use for. I like to keep things on a basic level and I am happy with my choice. Personally someone that has to make popups or replies so someones question is laziness. But I'm entitled to my own.

Yes mIRC provides these options for people to put to use. If someone wants to put their a/s/l in a finger reply then so be it. I can't tell them otherwise nor can anyone else. But when someone wants to know my information I tell them to just ask and to eliminate the "middle man" i.e. finger replies, or version replies or what not. Yes mIRC provides all of that to a user



Thank you for so clearly pointing out something that I already knew. My answer to that is my opinion and thats what I like about the internet is the right to share my views, so in short I could care less what others think about what I do online and/or what I think or say...

ok as the question was stated ...... it would be a good idea to add it into the whois ....... now ur wanting to take it to ctcp ??? and true it is a million times simpler that way ....... but why even add that option when it can be scripted simply

as the original idea was asked to put it into a whois ...... i personally think its alot more than just tossing a simple line to fill out ina box whether u want to or not ........ it would require more on the effort of ircd coders and mirc than just putting the option here in mirc. A whois response asks for certian raw modes ...... that format would have to be altered inside of ircd and not in mirc for this suggestion to work as being seen in WHOIS

make your own script for it man....

set %gender $?="Enter your gender: (Male/Female)"
ctcp *:!get.gender:*: {
ctcp $nick %gender
}

exactly the point i was tryin to make why include something like that in a release if its so simple to make anyways thru scripting .... and use of ctcp which really id tend to say thats where that should be rather than in a whois to begin with that way if u choose not to use it u simply dont add that lil tidbit of script to ur mirc instead of tryin to modify a standard protocal thats been in place since possibly before mirc

k, quick, easy, painless........ first of all, starbucks_mafia: Who gives a [deleted] what the media or parents think about internet chat networks??!!! Do you? Why is that an issue and why are you siding on conforming to the ways of others to defend an image conjured up by [deleted]? (rhetorical question..... don't expect you to answer that intelligently!) So you wouldn't use the a/s/l info .....great! ......so you don't like the idea ........fine!, is nice to hear opinions from the other side of the fence, but man, you might as well market mIRC with a [deleted] Mickey Mouse logo on its face and Net-Nanny plugins with all of your "for the parents" B.S.! Besides, we all know here that the deprivation of any kind of a/s/l addon is not going to stop anyone from engaging in online sex! Might as well see if you can't get your local Congressman to create a bill for government operated and monitored chat networks. FCC ring a bell to anyone?! Also you shouldn't leave the parenting to software engineers! If you don't want your kids engaging in that sort of thing, that's your job to monitor them, not mIRC's! Plus, are you saying that if you had the chance to find out if any of the ppl in a particular channel are "of the sex and the age range that you are attracted to" that you would think that's a bad thing??? ......and you honestly wouldn't ever check? What are you perpetually single? Plus, I agree with The_Game about not everyone displays such information for sex. As he said, some ppl enjoy talking to others with those sort of things in common.... is common sense... and if sex happens to be one of the common denomonators... is for them (or me!) icing on the cake. Nothing wrong with that. But once again, as stated in earlier posts...... IF YOU DON'T WANT TO ENABLE IT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO!!! That covers both sides, the ones that don't wanna be known and the ones that just don't wanna be solicited.

Now that that's settled (for the moment, until I hear some sort of [deleted] comeback flame) I like the CTCP ideas, was thinkin about that a while ago and just as long as it was written in such a way as to not "ding" and/or notify someone of each inquery everytime, (cuz I assure you, if implemented in a future version without the need for adding it yourself (for your average user) it would be used an aweful lot..... the excessive notifies would be a hassle. And as far as the finger replies............ yes, could do that too, but as I said earlier, would relieve the issue of ppl feeling as if they are "stressing" such a thing whether it be because they are shy, or not wanting to be seen as soliciting "sex sounding" initiation, or just plain don't realize the option is there to do it that way. Whatever the case, a simple addon would relieve ppl of such issues and more that wouldn't have even thought to consider may instantly consider it a good idea. Of course would install with the option defaulted to "N/A" or something until changed by the user. Either way, I don't have as much ability to discuss most forms of implementation because of the great many of you that are much more advanced than I at coding. But as far as the morality of it is concerned, give me a [deleted] break!!! (ooops!, can I say that on television!?) Now I do agree once again with D3m0n that the ircd probably won't be changed for a while if ever just to accomodate such a feature, but maybe somewhere down the road.......... for now could keep pitching ideas and thier respective pros and cons (real ones!) and maybe one day will cause the birth of a new version...

If not, oh well, am sure one day will happen in one form or another as the wants/needs of the user are satisfied..... of course, this won't even be so much of an issue to those that will choose to use more video/voice chat as the available bandwidth steadily rises..... Then what starbuck??? Put a towel over the lens so ppl can't see your sex and age?? God forbid you actually have an option NOT TO USE IT!!! Is like any other form of media.... If you don't like what is being heard or said on the radio, change the station or turn it off!..... If you don't like what's being said or displayed on T.V., change the channel or turn it off!!!,.... If you don't like what you're reading or seeing in a magazine or book, turn the page or close it!!!!! The same goes for an a/s/l addition!!!! I don't get why ppl find that so hard to understand?! Many just wanna scream and shout and blame someone or something else. Anyway, I eagerly await a non thought-out opinion from a [deleted]non-"sex crazed" individual (cuz we all know, "Sex is bad, mmmmkkaaaaaayyy!!!!) on how to protect my future children from the real world. As for the rest of you, I really enjoy being able to read your thoughts and opinions, can always learn new things and insights that way. Later.

one thing that may have been over looked ....... if someone was simply tryin to go out and find an age appropriate conversation ....... isnt there countless upon countless number of channels on the net specifically designed for that very reason ...... in my own personal experiance the ppl that go from room to room asking for asl and once they get it and havnt found anything they are looking for and then leave are nothing but bottom feeders on life ..... ppl who cant go out thier own door to go look for a real relationship ...... and lets be totally honest FONT DOES NOT ATTRACT ..... with that much being said ...... personally yes again the only way i do see this as being implemented (if at all) would be thru the use of CTCP ...... and again WHY BOTHER when its a simple what 3 lines of coding max ??? why add that to mirc it would take just as much if not more work and effort to add it than would be possible with a simple script ...... option or not , Whois or not , ctcp or not ...... its just not something that i can even see is worth adding to any future release ....... if someone wants to ask asl of ppl so be it ...... its been part of chat since the begining ...... and adding this option wont change that ....... 90% of irc users have no clue what any of the buttons/features/addons even do ....

there has been more work on every post here than would require to put together any simple ctcp reply script for and ASL request ..... that to me is why it would seem like its just not worth to add as an available option to mirc when so many ppl wouldnt use it and most likely most wouldnt even know its there ...... with the added exception of the 5 ppl here who have said its a good idea

hehe, yeah, I have to say I do agree with a lot of what you've stated in your last post except for the fact that the 3 lines of CTCP would not be easy enough for the 90% of IRC users you mentioned to use. One of my arguements was that if the CTCP code or other form of code were a clickable option, then ppl would be more willing to use it because of them seeing that it's an available option and is something that they would understand. And most ppl aren't that incapable of using and exploring options within mIRC, have seen a great many ppl learn to use it with and without the help of others whether its over-the-shoulder, online, or self help manuals or exploration. Am sure if that were an option, it would get its fair share of use. As far as rooms with age range or location and such in common, yeah, you're right..... but can't possibly catagorize everything....such as the diff between #25+freinds and #25+ bikers or #25+chefs or #25+mothers, etc. as opposed to #45+bikers, #55+mothers, etc. Not that it's really a major issue or anything, but could identify ppl by age, sex, or location within application specific rooms (if option is chosen) without havin to resort to creating different #Harley rooms by age, gender, or location. Now I know that's all quite a bit extreme, but the point is that it would just be another tool to help distinguish and identify ppl if they so desire. I am confident that many ppl would use such an option if it were available in an easy to configure format such as a checkbox and a tri-series of info boxes. (which I know is already easy for us regardless, but am talkin easy for them, the 90% you quoted earlier.) but hell, am gonna give it a rest for a while..... personally I don't need it but would like to have the option and have it become more universal, just as I don't need background images, colored nicks, sounds, popup menus, notify lists, and file transfers, but is available to all and I like to use them. Is no big loss not to have it, but don't see any (real) downside to having either. Later all.

I agree with you WolfGrave. It can be scripted simply, but for it to be a widely used and accepted feature, mIRC would have to add it into the options dialog and do the replys by default. This way you get millions of people doing it instead of a few people who have an addon. If only 2% of people had it, there would be no point because you'd ctcp 50 people just to get 1 reply.

Yeah, I concur ash, would eventually be widespread and accepted if the initial scenario were the case. "The journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step." Would be the advantage of millions of "steps"..... Anyway, who knows, may end up one day helping ppl meet easier, make friends/enemies faster, get laid or meet the person you vow to hate for the next (enter # here) years. Not that it doesn't happen anyway, but definitely wouldn't slow down the process. Either way, is not a "bad" idea. Just noticed that some have such strong convictions about remaining anonymous or have bad morality issues, which is perfectly "ok" and they can remain to be that way, but shouldn't slam and trash an idea because of it. Anyway, WolfGrave signs his slip "yay" and casts into the ballot box. As for anything else relating to the issue, I'm totally powerless. So my vote's in and I'm out. Later.

FCC ring a bell to anyone?! Also you shouldn't leave the parenting to software engineers!

The FCC, whoever they are, would only apply to one country. Secondly regarding your remark about "parenting", are you saying that power points shouldn't have safety shutters and that motor cars shouldn't have seat belts? If not why can't software have any 'safeguards'?

As was mentioned in an earlier post, the 'Net is full of nutters, paedophiles and other filthy deviots, along, of course, with lots of nice people. Opers have virtually no control and in many cases no interest in the intentions of those that use their servers. Therefore a chat programme that encourages users to give out intimate details about themselves is not a good thing.

*sigh*. OK. Time to get started with my 'stupid comeback flame'. I think I'll make this an abridged version since the length and extent of your idiocy makes pointing out every ridiculous remark a gargantuan task. Onwards...

I've gotta love your genius way of spelling poorly to dodge the censor so you can swear in the forums, it makes you seem all manly and tough. I know I was intimidated.



- That doesn't look like a rhetorical question to me. But if you don't want to read the answer turn away now. Yes I do care about the public image internet chat has. Khaled does too. So do most normal people who use IRC regularly do. I, and the normal IRC users do because of the instant conclusion other people jump to when they find out you use IRC. Khaled does because if some kids parents decide they can't use mIRC because of it's 'pro-sex' attitude with it's new age/sex/location CTCP (or whatever) then it means less people using mIRC and less people registering.



- So if it's not gonna stop anyone from engaging in their 'activities' by not having this 'feature', why have it there?



- I can honestly say I wouldn't. I really couldn't give less of a crap about the age and sex of the people I talk to on IRC. As it happens, I do know that information about a lot of the people I chat with - simply because I talk to them on a regular basis. And no I'm not perpetually single. Believe it or not you're allowed to talk to women outside of IRC. Yes, it's true, even in public and everything. What a world.



- If they can't see the finger reply option why would they suddenly be able to see an A/S/L reply option? Anyone who filled in that information would be seen as 'stressing' it because of the enormous amount of people who didn't fill it in because they didn't want to use it.



- Not at all. I've got nothing against someone finding out another person's age over IRC. What I've got a problem with is building something to display such trivial things as those into an IRC client. With voice or video chat you find out that information naturally because that's simply a part of the method of communication. With text chat age and sex aren't immediately apparent, and it doesn't matter because you're just chatting with them. If someone decides that it's important for them to know that information or to give out that information what's wrong with them putting it in their finger reply or simply telling people, and retrieving someone else's finger reply or asking them?



- Yes, I could turn it off. As could everyone else who doesn't want to use it. So we put a little bit of effort in to not see that stuff. Alternatively, the feature isn't added, and you put some effort in by actually asking someone that stuff. Im really sick and tired of everyone suggesting things and then when someone disagrees they come back with 'WELL YOU CAN TURN IT OFF'. What if I don't want to work to not pestered? What if I live in insane-topsy-turvy-world where I expect people who want something extra to be the ones putting in the effort to get it? OK. The 'optional' argument only works when the option is remotely relevant and/or useful to mIRC/IRC in the first place, otherwise I can suggest some new CTCPs ('What are you wearing?', 'Do you like cats?', 'Whats the weather like?') and they simply must be added. After all, someone might use them someday. And for everyone else, well they can just turn it off.

I hope that I didn't think that one out too much and disappoint you. Was it hormoneless enough for you? Feedback on my sexual prowess much appreciated. ASL. Do you like cats?

This is just an overall reply not aimed to a single person at all........

Forgetting about being able to turn it off etc... there's a reason most people dont give out information about themselves; they dont want to. Personally, I dont like the idea of an auto-asl-responder of any kind in mirc cause it's really not mirc's place to answer that. If you want to know, ask. If you dont believe the reply, that's your option to excersize at will. To me, I personally dont care what sex a person is when Im talking to them so long as we're all having fun which of course is the point to IRC in the first place; having fun and chatting with people.

Weather or not it's been mentioned I'll mention it anyway. AOL/MSN & the like have had problems in the past with internet stalkers looking up people's bios etc to find potential targets. Im NOT comparing mirc to AOL/MSN/ISP of choice, just stating a fact. With this kind of thing going on (I know, you cant stop it short of never going online), why give people another way to find out. Also, suppose they lie? Suppose everybody does? Then people (in general) will assume the opposite of what the "mirc a/s/l" says. My personal opinion is leave this option out of mirc. Besides, the whole a/s/l thing (while valid questions in specific circumstances) is really old. Most channels these days are totally public and not sex/age based (though there are a good amount of those left too). I can remember not long ago when you'd see something similar to:

* joins somenick
<somenick> a/s/l everybody
****all kinds of replies true, false & sarcastic***
*replies of "dont join & ask for a/s/l like a lameass"*
<somenick> f*** you all
* somenick has been kicked from #somechannel (dont be a lameass)

**in private to all people (sometimes excluding ops)**
(to nick1) <somenick> a/s/l
(to nick2) <somenick> a/s/l
(to nick3) <somenick> a/s/l
(to nick4) <somenick> a/s/l
(to nick5) <somenick> a/s/l
(to nick6) <somenick> a/s/l
(to nick7) <somenick> a/s/l

Im personally glad to see netiqueete has improved over those days (not too far ago)

Is it really asking too much to expect that people state their opinions without having to resort to namecalling and profanity filled insults? A little common courtesy goes a long way.

Just because someone doesnt happen to agree with you doesnt mean you have to insult them.

Adding my general overall reply:

People are going to start as many channels as they want and really dont care if there are already 200 others with the word <insert your choice here> in the name. They are also going to use IRC for their personal reasons, whatever they may be.

Personally, i find it annoying when someone joins a channel and immediately asks the whole channel or msgs me a/s/l. If i want you to know, i'll tell you. I could use the never ending assortment of popups or finger reply to do so if i had an overwhelming urge to announce it to the whole place or *gasp* manually type it. (btw, the finger option is as easy to find and as clickable as any other option would be) Whether i am helping someone, or generally chatting, i dont care what your a/s/l is, (exception: if i need to know your general location in order to help you find a channel that speaks your language, then i can look at your mask).

My reason for not wanting an option such as was suggested is for privacy. My own, yes.. but more importantly for those who dont realize the trouble they could get into by giving out too much info. No, of course not having such an option would stop all those who dont know any better, but why encourage it? Why make it easier for the dregs of humanity to find victims? The general opinion of IRC is that its a sex crazed, stalker filled, lying swamp. Sure, there is that element, but there are also a lot of genuinely nice ppl...but that isnt what the general public hears about or who users need beware of. How can we tell users to not give out personal info for their safety when we have an option implying they should do just that? Regardless of whether it was optional, the implication would still be that its ok to do so. It isnt the responsibility of each of us or any software designer to "police" behavior, but being a help oriented person, i would have a problem with knowing i increased the chance of even one person putting themselves in jeapardy because i helped them advertise their a/s/l.

Beyond that, if you feel you would only chat with someone based on their a/s/l you would be shortchanging yourself and defeating one of the pluses of of IRC: the opportunity to get to know ppl from everywhere, of all ages. Assuming of course everyone would fill the info out truthfully (not likely)