My english is not very good... so i believe you will understand me...

i want to ask Khaled here, at this forum
couse, i didn't saw him on other forum :}
Khaled,
1. Do you think to make scripting language of mIRC official programming language ?
2. If you think it, when it will be done, if not - why ?
3. If you don't ever think for making that convertor/compiler, please make an mIRC formal language definitions public, so anyone can try to write that one :}

P.S: i ask you for this, because many peoples are searching for it... and on http://www.mircscripts.org/ Necroman says that, "The idea of mIRC compiler has been around for a while.

I once e-mailed Khaled asking him if he had formal definitions of the language grammar. He answered that it didn't exist - "the language is an evolved one, it's not entirely consistent, I'm constantly changing it, etc.".

It looks like it won't happen in the nearest future"
... and this disapoints me

P.S 2: Only one think... you may write mrc2c or mrc2c++ convertor... it'll be quite useful

The mIRC scripting language would have NO use as a compiled external language. What would the "ON JOIN" event mean in a console application? Nothing, it only has meaning within IRC. This is true of the majority of mIRC's features. Not to mention the fact that mIRC scripting has a limiting syntax. There are thousands of things that can be accomplished with C, C++, Delphi, etc that can NOT be accomplished with mIRC. Saying mIRC scripting should be a standalone language is imho just like saying mIRC should be an OS. mIRC is a chat program, and mIRC scripting is a scripting language geared to chatting. Making it more than that makes no sense.

Like we all need an even slower language to program in--we have python alread,y isn't that enough?


If you notice other boards, there is a "when will next version be released" post at the top, if you read it u'd find Khaled never discloses information as to the next version.


Goto 1


Write a program to do it. I'm sure Khaled is more than busy with mirc itself, and doesn't (nor shouldn't) be botherd to write a mirc "compiler" The remotes are the compiler, the status window the debugger, and you yourselv are the linker.
If you are so concerned with a "mirc->c" conversion, write on. All new function are either on a new line, or seperated by the pipe (|). use a lil but of strtok, and relations (echo is to mirc, as printf isto c) and viola.

KingTomato.. i think that you can't understand what i mean under mrc2exe compiler!
the syntax will be changed a lot,
there will not be available on join, on part and others...
only "on start" and "on exit" and sockets (on sockread,sockopen, sockwrite,sockclose), too.

and... if you doesn't saw, i ask Khaled, not you =)

Well if thats what you meant, then it isn't just an idea that doesn't make sense, it is a stupid idea. Maybe you did ask Khaled, but last I checked this isn't the "message to Khaled so no one else responds" forum. If you post your ideas in a public place, expect the public to respond.

I agree with you that a mrc2exe compiler would be quite cool. But do you imagine the amount of new viruses we would see? It would be crazy. Beside that, i think the miRC language was meant to be for miRC exclusively, which means it will not be a standalone language - well i don't think so. However it would be cool.

Why would it be cool? Compare mIRC to any language, it is incredibly slow. For IRC scripts, no big deal, fur full blown applications, it's a huge deal. Not to mention mIRC's other numerous flaws, the "single space" issue. Thats not a good thing when you want to be able to develop an application, mIRC's lack of true-recursion. Recursion is used extensively in many programs, mIRC doesn't even support such things. mIRC has a lack of basic data structures. If you want to implement a stack, a queue, a list, etc., you have to completed write it yourself, mIRC provides virtually no tools to do it for you. Not to mention the entire language would have to be redefined. Where in mIRC is the code to interact with the console (i.e., display text, and wait for the user to input text)? Oh thats right, mIRC doesn't support such things seeing as how it is an IRC client not a console emulator. There are numerous other basic features that must be available in a language to be useful that mIRC doesn't, and shouldn't have.

mIRC scripting was made to be a _scripting_ language for use on _IRC_, not to be a _compiled_ language for use _anywhere_. If mIRC scripting were made into a compiled language, it would be horrible. Even the VB users would be making fun of mIRC! It's slow, it is inconsistent, it lacks thousands of features available in other languages, it has an ackward syntax, and the list goes on. Most of these problems can be ignored when you are merely working on an IRC script, however when you are working on an application, you can't.

well codemastr, if you think that this language has no future, then don't write on it!
i think that it's more useful than VBS or VBA Applications.

I actually find VB easier to code than mIRC however codemastr tends to throw all versions of VB together, forgetting that on Windows 2003 VB.NET will run about 40 times faster than VB6. Anyway, I do agree with him on one point and I have said it dozens of times before, mIRC's scripting language was made for one purpose and one purpose only - a support langauge for the mIRC chat programme. It does that job very well simply because that is what it is intended for. There are scripting languages that mIRC doesn't support that are faster of course but people generally prefer to use mIRC the way it is - I don't see masses of chatters changing to X Chat, BitchX, Klient, etc just because languages lile C, Perl and TCL might be faster - quite the opposite, they would have to be dragged, kicking and screaming to do it. It's a case of what works best in a given area and the computer world already has dozens of languages at it's disposal for non-mIRC use.

You don't have to even make that suggestion, I wouldn't even consider using it. If I want to write a compiled program, I'll stick to C, C++, Java, or C#. Additionally, who cares if it is more useful than VBS/VBA. Thats NOT what you are asking for, the comparison is irrelevant. You want a compiled language, not a scripting language. So comparing it to VBS/VBA makes no sense. If you want to compare it, you compare it to a compiled language such as C++, Java, VB, Delphi. And if you want to say it is "better" than any one of those languages, well then you are either horribly misinformed, or you are just willing to say anything regardless of facts just to try and make your idea sound better.

Rant:
The only reason people want mIRC scripting to be a compiled language is because people are lazy. mIRC scripting is relatively easy, people can figure it out easily. People want to expand to more than just IRC scripts, they want to write whole programs, but they don't want to take the time to learn a real language. Therefore they figure, if mIRC scripting allowed compilation, they could write programs. However, the ONLY thing mIRC scripting as a compiled language would possibly do is create more lame programs, because now all the little "script kiddies" don't have to spend time writhing "type // $+ $decode(...," they can now write "my-fun-game.exe" which is actually a virus. People who really want to make programs can learn one of the 100+ already existing languages.

C'mon, when you add .NET to it your talking Common Runtime Language or whatever their buzzword for their java style bytecode is.

Thats not vb, thats Visual Basic converted to something else...

as for the rest i'm sleepy

You are once again talking in your sleep because regardless of what it is called VB.NET is not backwards compatible with VB6 despite some similarities. That is one of many reasons why VB.NET is much faster and of course therefore better.

Anyway, that is the story from Microsoft, when you can code your website properly then I would listen to you more.

Umm maybe I'm missing something... but isn't that almost exactly what clockwerx said? He said VB.NET is different than VB (which is what you just said), so what are you arguing about?

The way I read it was that he is under the assumption that VB6 was "converted" and lumped under the name VB.NET. This is not the case as Micro$oft swear blind that they started on a clean sheet of paper so I don't even know why he spoke to begin with. He admits to being sleepy, perhaps he should be doing that in bed instead of on his keyboard soaking in gamma rays from the monitor.

OK ,guys,
codemastr, VBA/VBS script are stupid thinks but, i'll be happy if mIRC Scripting language mutate to scripting application
just like vbs/vba scripts.
i realy don't need *.exe file...

If what you're proposing is done...

hackers will use this to attempt to circumvent Norton's virus definitions on VBScript.

...in fact, there are no other uses of such a proposal.

Caught ya, didn't I?

MegaZeroX, i think that you doesn't know english to write here, or this "proposal" is dialectical form
i know the word 'purpose' but not proposal

and ... i have nothink to say to you...
i talk about the same reply to codemastr (i think)
read all before this post, and you will get my answer!

So you are leaving your argument as it should be added because it would be "cool"? Doesn't sound like a very sound argument to me.

Everyone kinda disagreed with you there, I notice. Me too, I mean... mIRC's script is great parsed but its just not too viable.
A better option, however, is a header file for C++ containing commands that allow you to do the equivalent in C++ of certain commands. Basically, the socket commands and the file commands would probably be best. Socket and file handling are annoying as hell in C++.

Basically, someone would want mIRC script to be a compilable language because it is easy to learn. mIRCScript itself would suck ass as a language because, as many people have said, it lacks many things that would make it effective. However...
If someone dragged Khalem away from mIRC and got him to write a language like Java (by 'like Java' I mean a language that is written in one language and then capable of running on multiple platforms) it could be interesting. Or it could just suck. Hmm.

What alot of people forget though is that mIRCScript is good for what it was designed for. I doubt it was ever mean to be a 'real' language as alot of people put it. mIRC is special because of its scripting language and I would hate for it to be eroded due to time being spent on replacing it with something else. There are other programmes like Klient, X Chat and Bersirc which support (correct me if I am wrong) languages like C, Perl, VB, Pascal and possibly TCL. Never forget that there are people, such as myself, who are not professional programmers (by that I mean people that do not do programming for a living) and as such do not have the time to aquaint themselves with other langauges.

I'm not saying that development should be halted for that reason, far from it, though threads similar to this usually end up in a debate arguing for mIRC to support a compiled language in full and if necessary, at the expense of the current scripting language, and it's something that I, for one, would never lend support to.

Surely there is scope for the current language to get further/better functionality. Who would have thought in 1995 that mIRC would support multi-server, dialogues, DLL's, colours and whatever else has been added since V2.X. It probably wasn't easy but it still happened. Even for mIRC to support an extra language or an emulation of another language, I am sure it would require alot of time and perhaps make the mirc.exe a large piece of machinery to download too.

Anyway, that's my 2 bob's worth.

i think mirc should stay as it is, but i also think it would be a good idea to make the dialog layout code, a proper language as its so much easier than c++ and the like =o\, then just use different code to make it work :tongue:

as you wish...
i think that i offten tells you my opinion...

C++ file handling is fast and easy, I find it much easier than mIRC.

ofstream out("thefile.txt");

out << "this is some text" << endl;
out << "Now a number" << 10 << endl;
out.close();

Is that really so bad?

And as for sockets, you can either get a stream-based socket class (there are a bunch available), or you can *gasp* use .NET

thats not so bad because you know it though, to me that doesnt make any sense at all, even thought i am learning c++ now as well.

im trying to get into winAPI, but the demo of the .NET compiler I got with a book is on a dvd cd, and my computer doesn't read it. Must be a new kinds of copyrighting on Microsoft's part, but until I can get the compiler--my book is useless. >:\ Would you have any suggestions codematr?

Buy MSVC++ .NET

Do you have a ballpark figure?

File handling IS easy, if you want to read or write info. It gets a little more complicated when you want to do both. mIRC's file handling is just a little bit easier when you want to store and retrieve specific info from a file. But, I was bored so I wrote my own function to store and retrieve from a file pretty much the same way.
As for sockets... they are a manifestation of satan himself in C++. I have no idea what .NET is like, because I have no need to program sockets for Windows. I use a Linux compiler. Umm.. .NET may be available on Linux, I have no clue. I haven't really found much out about .NET.
Actually, my problem with sockets is finding a good reference on them. If there was a website or help file that had a good, solid explanation of sockets and how to implement them my life would be easier.

For Windows I have Network Programming for Microsoft Windows Second Edition, it's an excellent book that covers socket programming under all versions of Windows using standard WinSock API as well as .NET and how to use it in C, C++ and C#. For *nix, Unix Network Programming Second Edition Volume 1 - Networking APIs Sockets and XTI, Linux Socket Programming, Linux Socket Programming by Example, and TCP/IP Sockets in C Practical Guide for Programmers. Scrap up the money to buy those and you should never have a socket problem you can't handle