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topic on top and collapsable nicklist

Posted By: MDConker

topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 07:30 AM

I have no clue if a similar idea was posted.

Instead of bothering to cram the topic into the mIRC titlebar there should be a bar that goes at the top of the channel window that shows the channel's topic. I always find myself scrolling up or typing '//topic #' to gets links and news. This feature is best expressed in Conference Room's 1.x java client.

Another idea is to make the nicklist (and probably the channel bar) easily collapsable if you need more room to see text.

One last thing... is there any chance of adding italic support to mIRC? They have bold... why not italic?
Posted By: lonesome

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 11:56 AM

Actually, in 6.12, you can auto hide the nick list. Just right-click on the channel button, click on nicklist... and choose auto-hide nicklist. You can choose to make it the channel default too. grin
Posted By: neophyte

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 12:13 PM

The idea of a channel toolbar has been previously suggested.

It is also rather easy to create one yourself.
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 12:15 PM

Quote:
One last thing... is there any chance of adding italic support to mIRC? They have bold... why not italic?


At a guess, I would say the lack of italic text capability stems back to when IRC was just for terminal IRC clients. The Linux terminal, for example, is able to display normal, coloured, bold and underlined text. I have personally never seen any italic text in terminal programs which leads me to assume it is not capable of rendering it (if anyone knows differently, please correct me).

If mIRC were to adopt italic text, it would be incompatible with those people using terminal clients (BitchX, Irssi, Ircii..etc..) and there's still alot of them around. Also, every other client would have to incorporate it too just in order to maintain mIRC compatibility. That strikes me as a big pain in the backside, just so that a piece of text can lean a little toward the right :tongue:
Posted By: MDConker

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 05:40 PM

This is no longer old terminal style IRC. I think that italic could be worked into IRC just as color was. I quite often find myself stressing a certain word when I'm typing... and bold or underline just don't express what I'm trying to say correctly. It is afterall one of the original markup tags in HTML. The only problem I see is a shortcut key that makes sense. Control + I is already taken. As far as backwards compatibility is concerned... all the old mIRC users would see just a symbol that marks where italic begins and ends. Not a big deal.

Thanks for the nicklist hide thing, now to find one for the channel bar. :tongue:
Posted By: theRat

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 05:52 PM

CTRL+R is already used as Italic on some clients??
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 06:19 PM

Quote:
As far as backwards compatibility is concerned... all the old mIRC users would see just a symbol that marks where italic begins and ends.


It's not the backwards compatibility I am bothered about. It the fact that every other client (xchat, Klient...etc...) will have to go out of their way just to incorporate something that just one client happens to use in order to maintain compatibility. Might as well start adding graphical smilies too....

Quote:
This is no longer old terminal style IRC


Whilst mIRC is not a terminal client, there are still lots of terminal client users out there (myself included, from time to time). Naturally, I can only speak for myself but I don't wanna see italic-markers in the middle of lines of text. Of course, the other option would be to use a client that does support italic text. But why should I have to do that in order to keep compatibility with a client that would now be taking a dictatorship role (add this feature or become incompatible (very Microsoft-esq)) rather than its current placid role?

What I'm trying to say in a long-winded kinda way is that there is a standard which was defined by, and is still used by, terminal clients. Straying from that standard is... well... an ungood thing for everyone else as the choice would be "incorporate or face incompatibility" frown
Posted By: KingTomato

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 06:35 PM

Not to completly disagree with you deku, but your argument is kinda week. As far as "As far as backwards compatibility is concerned... all the old mIRC users would see just a symbol that marks where italic begins and ends." What would there be as far as a "simble" in the text? Mirc currently uses ASCII characters as it is, and would just take another one to provide underline. Whatever character Khaled (if he does) used, it would display just as well as if he never added it at all.

"Might as well start adding graphical smilies too...."

Now you're referencing something that is enterpreted client side, with something that is sent over the server. If smilies were ever added, it wouldn't send .bmp|.gif|.jpg over the network, just a :[b][/b]-) like aim.

What you see:
<KingTomato> How's it going, everyone? grin
Sent to server:
PRIVMSG #somechan :How's it going, everyone? laugh

So that argument is void.

Personally, i could care less if Italics were added, but kind of lean towards a yes. There are times where an italic would fit better than say reverse/bold/underline. Again, it would just take another char between 0-255 to enable "italic", so there wouldn't beany new "funky" characters to hide/show/watever.
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 06:53 PM

The bit about the smilies was just a comment, not an arguement :tongue:

However, I respect your opinion and that of the original poster's. But why break a pre-defined standard in order to achieve something that can be done by existing methods (such as bolding, underlining, capitalisation and verious combinations)?

If this italics method can be achieved in a seamless way that doesn't interfere by means of incompatibility with other clients then sure, two thumbs up smile
Posted By: KingTomato

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 06:58 PM

Excuse me? Standard? I believe the RFC For the IRC protocol does not metion bold, color, underline, nor referse font styles. So what exactly do you mean by standard?

As far as interfering, how would it? Again, it would use an existing character in the ASCII (just as color, bold, etc uses) and assign it a value of italic. There is nothing to "break" the other programs. If they can handle 256 characters, they surly can handle underline.
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 07:13 PM

By standard I mean the unwritten standard set by the original terminal clients. As I said above, it appears to me (but I could be wrong, and if I am so be it) that what the terminal clients could do was limited by the terminal. Now, a terminal (BASH, for my example) is able to do those colours, bold fonts, underline but it doesn't appear (at least I personally have never seen it) to be able to produce italic text. If this is not the case, then fine...

By interfere, I mean the displaying of the italic markers by clients that don't support italics. It would be annoying to see 'em smile
Posted By: MDConker

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 08:43 PM

Deku, let's not kid ourselves here. mIRC is the world's leading IRC client. I think Khaled should continue to add things that make IRC a richer experience. If plain text is good for you, then by all means chat with your girlfriend on a typewriter. Hours of fun. shocked
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:13 PM

Will adding italic text REALLY make people's IRC experience that much richer? I suspect not...

Quote:
If plain text is good for you, then by all means chat with your girlfriend on a typewriter


Let's not get personal, eh? smile
Posted By: EVH

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:22 PM

Quote:
Will adding italic text REALLY make people's IRC experience that much richer? I suspect not...


Well let's see, let's take away all the colors, underline & bold,
the ability to play sound files, the perform on connect list, the
notify list & anything else you can think of that is not
necessary for a chat client to function and we'll see how
much richer of an experience you had before you took
away all that stuff.
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:24 PM

I don't use any of that stuff anyway... grin
Posted By: EVH

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:26 PM

1) Yeah right.
2) So because you don't use it nobody else needs to either?
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:29 PM

1) It's true.
2) Alas, no smile
Posted By: pheonix

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:35 PM

it will be better for spammers so they can use: JOIN #SPAM
smirk
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:42 PM

hehehe grin
Posted By: MDConker

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 09:51 PM

Italics just add more options on how text looks. Don't get me started on strikethrough text. ;p
Posted By: KingTomato

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 27/10/03 11:18 PM

I don't think your unerstanding this...

If italic was added, it was have absolutly no effect on mirc today. To prove it, go into an irc channel using telnet and tell me if mirc colors makes telnet go fubar... it doesn't. It's simple really, mirc just redifines what 1 character in the 0-255 ASCII setmeans.

Currently, the characters set aside for the mIRC/ANSI codes are:

B: 2 U: 31 C: 3 R: 22

What effect would it have if say... character 4 was made into italic? Would every irc client out there go fubar? No, they would see it as if it never existed as an underline, but as a regular character.

I don't know why you're arguing a point to have no italic. It's not harmful, not going to mess up server or clients.. Personally, I think you just get off hearing yourself talk ,and you feel you need to have the last winning argument.
Posted By: DekuHaze

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 28/10/03 01:16 AM

Ok. I accept I was wrong.

You're so ANGRY, Tomato. Why is that? You're always harsh to people if they are wrong, have a differing opinion or just don't quite understand what you say. It's almost like you go out of your way smite people down with your rage and utter disdain for anything that opposes your view. What is it the world has done to infuriate you, hm?

There's no need to be unfriendly. It's just not big, it's not tough and it just raises your blood pressure. Also, it's just not CIVILIZED wink
Posted By: landonsandor

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 28/10/03 03:46 AM

one small note about italics - Pirch has had it for years and I never heard people complain about compatibility. It just shows up (IIRC) as a CTRL block (like the CTRL+K block). Im not for or against the idea, just saying that ONE chat program I know of DOES in fact handle it.
Posted By: MDConker

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 28/10/03 06:22 AM

do you happen the know the character Pirch uses for italics? Because if Khaled adds italic support he will have to use that character for compatability.
Posted By: Iori

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 28/10/03 06:32 AM

PIRCH interprets Ctrl + R as italics

Google is my friend laugh
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 28/10/03 06:38 AM

No he wouldn't.

1. Pirch is no longer made or supported.
2. Pirch is chokkas with exploits and bugs.
3. CTRL R is already assigned as reverse text.
4. As mIRC is the most popular programme - it would stand to reason that other programmes would have to fall in line, not the other way around.
Posted By: MDConker

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 28/10/03 07:18 AM

Also, I can't script worth crap... so adding a "topic bar" would be a good solution for the rest of us. :tongue:

Maybe it could be used to change the topic... or you could completely change channel central into a bar at the top of each channel... who knows.
Posted By: saxon

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 28/10/03 08:19 AM

Well you cant script it, you would have to use a DLL. Probably something dodgy like Ktools, which is notoriously buggy (sorry kfreak). And a DLL can't be guaranteed to work in every future version of mIRC, anyway. It's a simple suggestion that would add to usablity for some people. I wouldnt like it, But it's khaled decision, and im sure he would give us the choice to disable it.

As for italics. I would like them. There is such a thing called Evolution. If mIRC encourages other clients to change and improve, great.
Posted By: KingTomato

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 29/10/03 04:01 AM

It's simple. I emphasise points against those who argue with little to no reasoning behind their decision. Its not so much you have a different opinion, but that you have to keep arguing the same points over and over to try to stress how "right" you are. maybe if you argues valid, non-repeating points, I wouldn't rebutte as strongly.
Posted By: x64

Re: topic on top and collapsable nicklist - 04/11/03 07:15 AM

Personally, I think it would just make sense to add an option to interpret CTRL+R (22) as italics instead of reverse, and have italics as default. That way it can mean either. theres no MAJOR difference in emphasis.
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