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remove "!nickname sent as private message"

Posted By: anss

remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 08:32 AM

why is this enabled as a default option? i think if people wanted to send something privatly they would. In my 6+ years of IRC, ive never witnessed a situation where !nickname needed to be sent as a private message. Though ive run into the problem with commands being ignored because of it.
Posted By: RusselB

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 08:54 AM

I don't know what situations you've come across that this option has caused trouble with, but the setting is easy enough to turn off.
1) Go to mIRC Options - Sounds - Requests
2) uncheck Send '!nick file' as private message
3) Click OK

I think the reason it's on by default, is so that if you're wanting to request a sound file from another person on the channel, you can do so without interrupting the conversation in the channel.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 10:13 AM

believe me ive learned how to disable it over time. that has nothing to do with the problem.

When you are in a channel that is dedicated to sending commands, you dont want PMS from people typing !nick.

Channels dedicated to commands are very common.

Channels dedicated to conversation, that have a problem with people typing specifically "!Nick" in the channel, is not common enough to warrent a default command in mirc.

Why would people be typing !nick in a conversation channel so often that you need to have an option added to MIRC and have it enabled by default? it baffles me

its a problem for channels dedicated to using commands. you cant explain to everyone how to disable it.

Perhaps back in the day this option was helpful. Today, where !command channels are common, it is a problem
Posted By: RusselB

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 10:48 AM

I'm on 4 networks and have seen bots that use ! commands quite often, but I can't remember the last time I saw a bot that had a command of !RusselB

In my experience the commands that use the ! on a bot are common things, like !help, !commands, !rules, etc.

If you know of a room on a network where there would be trouble with someone using !RusselB (presuming that I was in the room and using RusselB for my nick (which is a default nick for me)) then I would like to know what room and on what network.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 11:07 AM

RusselB, if !nick wasnt common, then why is there an option that is enabled by default to send !nick as a private message? Its either useless, or a pain in the !!


!nick is used in a channel that has 10s, or even HUNDREDS of bots, each with differnt information.

If you want to request something from a specific user, you type !nick <information>. If you were to type !information, 100 bots would respond, and we wouldnt want that.

I would give you the location of one such chan, but then id have to kill you. sorry
Posted By: RusselB

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 11:37 AM

Quote:
I would give you the location of one such chan, but then id have to kill you. sorry
Talk about a lame excuse for not providing simple information for verification purposes.
Posted By: Mentality

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 12:09 PM

I don't really see the need to "verify" anything, it's a feature request. If this person says such a circumstance arises when they are using IRC there's no need to investigate it in my opinion.

Anyway, whilst such an option doesn't negatively effect my IRC sessions, I equally don't think it's an option useful enough to have it as default. Out of interest, what does <information> contain? I mean, the message after !nick has to end in a file type (i.e. .mp3) for it to be sent as a private message. If you just sent "!nick sendinfo" or whatever, then mIRC won't send it as a private message. It would have to be a rather rare/specific circumstance for this to actually be a pain for a large number of people.

Regards,
Posted By: mIRCManiac

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 12:48 PM

Yes it would be great for this to be disabled by default.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 02:41 PM

!Nick filename is not rare i promise you. Thousands of people at all times use it for sharing files and other information. In the moments it took me to type out this message, hundreds of !nicks were sent on IRC. Many of which are probably illegal transfers, but thats not what this request is about.

Im sure youve seen the @find and !nick <file> scripts that are around. The !nick filename has developed into a standard.

Im developing an addon with the same idea. I would have liked to have stuck with the origional !nick thing because thats what everyone knows. Obviously ill have to use something else, but i just dont understand why this is enabled by default. It just causes conflicts and is good for absolutley nothing.
Posted By: jaytea

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 08:48 PM

yah this should be disabled by default imo.. it even threw me when i first came across the feature in an mp3 channel, and a complete noob would most likely not realize what's going on and how to fix it
Posted By: Skip

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 09:40 PM

Quote:
The !nick filename has developed into a standard.


Perhaps whoever developed this 'standard' should have taken more time to investigate any incompatibilities.

As you indicated, the !nick <command> exists to request a common command off a unique client to reduce being bombarded by many clients running the same script/program. The obvious 'next step' to this problem is to not have the command shown to other clients at all.

This is of course the 'logical thing', but as we're all well aware where the majority of these commands are going, logic there is about as rare as an untrojaned file.

Lets pay homage to those great people in their wonderful channels who think the level of text scroll in channel is proportional to their level of 'l33tness', who not only ignore but persist in breaking the solutions.
Posted By: mIRCManiac

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 28/03/06 09:53 PM

Don't be an ass. This is a mIRC feature that is fine but
should not be enabled by default. It has been the standard
because this is what mIRC itself listens for when accepting
sound requests, therefore it became the standard method
of requesting files with file sharing scripts. It's a simple
request to disable this by default in future versions.
Posted By: Skip

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 29/03/06 08:34 AM

Quote:
It's a simple request to disable this by default in future versions.


Sure, and the OP still has problems with older default configurations and clients that enable the feature. The far quicker and more effective solution would be to modify these faceless bots to accept the command over private message.

The intended feature seems to be working just fine with the current default configuration, so what purpose would changing it serve?
Posted By: mIRCManiac

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 29/03/06 12:53 PM

Quote:
The far quicker and more effective solution would be to modify these
faceless bots to accept the command over private message.


lol are you high? Noone is asking for the feature to be
removed or changed, just to be disabled by default.

It seems as though you and many others on these boards
think a feature suggestion or bug report that happens to
have something to do with file sharing should automatically
be ignored or denied. I can see that way of thinking if
someone asked for a built-in file list generator, or a built-in
send queing system, or a built-in @find system, but this is
not the case, all these can be, and always have been done
with scripts, this is only a request to disable by default, an
already existing feature in mIRC.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 29/03/06 06:28 PM

I expect input from people who would be effected by the change, good or bad. Not random remarks from bot racists.

Its a very simple request. No need to fight it unless youre effected by it being disabled

The point is that theres no reason to have it enabled by default. FOrget i even spoke about SCRIPTS. Still the same problem applies to the built in feature.

If someone were typing !nick so often that the option would come in handy, they can simply enable it. They lose nothing by not enabling it. They dont need to know the option even exists, and can send it via private message.

On the other hand, for someone who needs to send to the channel, and know nothing about the option, there is a problem.

Even the readme makes it sound like its meant to be off by default.

"Send !nick file as private message
If this option is turned off and you send the message !nick file to a channel, everyone on the channel will see it. if you prefer not to crowd the channel with these messages, you can turn this option on and the user will receive the message privately."

Let the channels, and people who are actually serving the files decide what should be sent to them in a private message, not the irc client by default.

Like jaytea said, its very confusing. It happened to me and it confused me for a good while. I was looking through all of the scripts i had loaded, and just could not figure it out. The last thing i thought of was that there was actually an option that sends specifically !nick as a private message.
Posted By: Skip

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 29/03/06 09:51 PM

Selective reading is a problem:

Quote:
The intended feature seems to be working just fine with the current default configuration, so what purpose would changing it serve?


I'm not one of those blindly-shun-all-file-sharing people you see on these boards, however where a feature seems to only benefit this, where it already works fine as is, I think changing it sends the wrong message. Yes all it is is disabling something by default, but for what purpose?


Quote:
Its a very simple request. No need to fight it unless youre effected by it being disabled

Yet we skip around the issue of exactly who is effected by it being enabled, and why mIRC should make an effort to further accommodate those people.

But yeah, as you both want to resort to criticising people rather than their input, whatever.
Posted By: DaveC

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 12:11 AM

I have read most of the arguements above etc by most people, and while i wouldnt care if it was turned on or off by defualt, as i can just set it myself. I would guess that alot of people who use this feature on channels that use it, would have no idea how to set it on or off, and have no idea it is even a feature.
The idea of just changing its default setting i find unfoundered as it would be effecting all the people mentioned above, and all channels that expected it to be on by default.
And one of your arguements was becuase someone has written there bot (carelessly) and used a in channel trigger that mimics a known existing internal function of mirc, thus you want the function disabled by default.
That would be as bad as me complaining that my custom $nick identifier that adds [ ] around the passed $1 should be by default called just becuase im upset its not working, i mean ON *:TEXT:*:?: { echo -at $nick($nick) $1- } should work damn it! :-Z
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 02:35 AM

ive explained many times why its annoying, and why its better off disabled, and ive explained who it effects. Anyone who has experience with the option knows exactly what im talking about. You know nothing about it
Posted By: Skip

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 08:39 AM

Quote:
ive explained many times why its annoying, and why its better off disabled, and ive explained who it effects. Anyone who has experience with the option knows exactly what im talking about. You know nothing about it

Apparantly "its a problem for channels dedicated to using commands", the very channels that you can't tell us about because you'd 'have to kill us'. You've made it clear who this change is meant to benefit.

Quote:
believe me ive learned how to disable it over time. that has nothing to do with the problem.

And legitimate users don't need to disable it in the first place, but you've had no problems changing it so why would they? You've made it clear who this change is of no benefit.

Quote:
Many of which are probably illegal transfers, but thats not what this request is about.

Your request is about making mIRC compliment something mIRC itself, and IRC as a chat medium, was not intended for.

Quote:
Let the channels, and people who are actually serving the files decide what should be sent to them in a private message, not the irc client by default.

Let the channels and people serving files find a proper application for file sharing.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 12:09 PM

no the reason i wont post it here is because i dont want you, or anyone else there. Its private. I dont know what youre on about, and i dont know what you mean by "legitimate users".

Illegal sharing isnt allowed. You know how we keep people from sharing illegal things?

PUBLIC COMMANDS!!

i dont understand the meaning behind your input. I dont know if youre trying to convince me that this option doesnt cause problems? I posted the request because it does. im not confused about it, but thank you for your ideas
Posted By: DaveC

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 08:06 PM

Quote:
I dont know if youre trying to convince me that this option doesnt cause problems? I posted the request because it does. im not confused about it, but thank you for your ideas


Since u seemed to have missed me saying it the first time, ill repeat it here.
The option doesnt cause problems for any well written scripts, just faulty ones whoes authors wrote them without taking care to think about what mirc already does.
Why should mirc normal behavour be changed for 1000's maybe millions of users all becuase a small group of people were ignorant to something that was internal and ON by defualt.
You want your commands to work? Change the leader character from !, and bang they work!, dont go around wanting everyone elses mirc altered to catter for your problems.

DaveC.

ring ring. hello ford motors. yes ford i would like you to change all your cars becuase my over 7 foot friends cant fit sitting up in them. ummm ok sir well file that request in our special intray. ok thanks. click. yeah our special intray called the rubbish bin.
Posted By: mIRCManiac

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 09:30 PM

It wouldn't be changed for 1000's maybe millions of users
if they choose to save their current settings during install
while upgrading, just new installs of future versions. I'm
also willing to bet that this wouldn't effect either you or
Skip whatsoever, especially you since you didn't even
know that this feature existed until this thread. smirk

Even just a command to disable it would be better.
Posted By: DaveC

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 09:58 PM

Im not going to get into a debate about it, either way it doesnt effect me at all, as you have pointed out.
However since mirc has millions of users I think it would be fair to say its possable alot of them wouldnt save settings, as they have never needed to before, and thus find now something that used to work doesnt. So ill say "maybe" it would effect 1000's if not millions, you cant absolutely say it wont.
Posted By: mIRCManiac

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 30/03/06 10:00 PM

Well no I can't absolutely say it won't, but if they choose to
not save their current settings then how can they expect
things to work as they did before?
Posted By: Skip

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 31/03/06 09:20 AM

Quote:
I'm also willing to bet that this wouldn't effect either you or Skip whatsoever


Selective reading strikes again.
Posted By: mIRCManiac

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 31/03/06 12:29 PM

Go lay down.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 31/03/06 03:25 PM

Quote:
especially you since you didn't even
know that this feature existed until this thread. smirk



aaaaaaaaahahaa_)! Hows that for irony eh

This isnt a problem, yet it played out in a post you were actually a part of DaveC. You even suggested looking through scripts, as i did when it happened to me. Read my quote from my last post

"Like jaytea said, its very confusing. It happened to me and it confused me for a good while. I was looking through all of the scripts i had loaded, and just could not figure it out. The last thing i thought of was that there was actually an option that sends specifically !nick as a private message!! "

No its not a coiincidence, its very common, and it has nothing to do with illegal filesharing and bad scripts. Its just a bad default configuration. I dont want to argue this
Posted By: DaveC

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 31/03/06 04:39 PM

Quote:
Hows that for irony eh


I suggest you look the word up.

Quote:
Its just a bad default configuration. I dont want to argue this.


Then you should stop saying your opion as if it were fact, this is what I have found leads to arguements in most cases.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 31/03/06 05:12 PM

no my argument is based on facts, yours is based on belief. I have experience with the option, and 1000's of users of the option.

ITS SOLE PURPOSE, is so that a user doesnt have to type "/msg nick !nick". Nothing can depend on this feature being enabled. there is nothing to depend on. It is impossible to cause any problems by disabling it. Though, having it does cause conflicts and confusion being enabled.

!It is a user preference!

Just like "show ping pong!" was enabled by default. Who the hell wants to watch green ping pongs scroll up their status window every minute? He finally disabled it, and nothing depended on it i promise you.
Posted By: hixxy

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 01/04/06 02:30 AM

I don't see a rising need to disable the option by default. Just be thankful it's an option.
Posted By: DaveC

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 01/04/06 06:44 AM

Your arguement is based on "so called" facts not in evidence, "facts" you in fact refused to validate. This would lead most sane people to doubt there validility.

Show or dont show ping, is a lot different from take this action or take someother action, to a users input, hardly a comparable example.

The rest of what you said im not even going to talk about, you seem to ignore anything anyone says and repeat the same thing over and over verbatem, so go for it.....

Ill just say, ill live happyly with what ever khaled decideds to do.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 01/04/06 12:39 PM

I dont believe i need to validate anything with khlaled. He knows plenty about the topic. Of course, i would if it would help.

You guys talk about illigitimate users, and "just be glad it is an option", and scripts should do this or that. Its a bunch of nonsesne. You have yet to explain why its better off enabled, other than "people might expect it to be on". What could possibly rely on this being on? That is a question

You havent explained anything at all and ive read through the posts quite a few times. Just a bunch of biased opinions from you. Nothing that could be considered constructive
Posted By: Kelder

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 01/04/06 10:27 PM

Fact: it was enabled by default in multiple versions of mIRC.
Statements: Not all users upgrade their mIRC the moment a new version comes out. Not all people throw out all their current settings each time they upgrade mIRC. I have no exact numbers about this, but I for one don't want my settings and scripts gone when I upgrade.

So, basically, even if Khaled invests time to release a new version with this !nick msg thing disabled by default, some people will not be influenced by this change and your problem still exists. However, changing !nick to ?nick filename requires only a small change in the server scripts and command listings. And it has the intended effect, even for those who don't upgrade mIRC, don't overwrite their settings, or don't use mIRC at all.
Posted By: anss

Re: remove "!nickname sent as private message" - 05/04/06 11:34 AM

youre talking generally about changing default options. that doesnt apply to this particular option

Ive already factored in as much as knew about the fuction before coming to the conclusion that it is better OFF by default. Thats why i made the suggestion. Khaled knows all about its use in the wild. im asking for him to consider making the change. Its not a major problem either way, i just feel its confusing more people than it should.
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