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*** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02

Posted By: Inquisitor

*** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 07:34 AM

mIRC 6.01 and below:
*** Now talking in #blah
*** Topic is 'blah'
*** Blah was kicked by Blah (Blah)
* Me thinks not

mIRC 6.02 and above to 6.1:
* Now talking in #blah
* Topic is 'blah'
* Blah was kicked by Blah (Blah)
* Me thinks not

What is up with that? Why is there still no fix? And there is no way I can fix this back to pre-6.02 besides massive scripting.

Without the *** prefix on actual modes it is impossible to differentiate between an impersonated message from a /me and an actual one in log files. This distinction is causing me serious problems and issues when it comes to verifying log files.

Normal use can be differentiated with color schemes but it is not possible to perform such a distinction with log files. So is this ever going to be fixed? I am very disappointed that 6.1 has not fixed this glaring error or provided a solution to switch between * and *** prefix modes. And this has been going in since 6.02. Months have passed now and I'm still forced to use 6.01 because this severe issue is not fixed.

If an option was provided to fix the massive borders-around-chatbox irritation in mirc 6.01, why is there not with this *** prefix which I find to be way more serious.
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 08:48 AM

What is up with that? Why is there still no fix?

It ain't fixed because it ain't broke. The alteration was made intentionally and I would say permanently unless Khaled decides, finally, to introduce X Chat style event editing.
Posted By: Inquisitor

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 10:52 AM

I would say it's broken because of the inability to differentiate between a 'real event' and one faked with a /me. It worked fine all along until being 'broken' in versions 6.02+. And fixing all this back to *** through scripting is no joke; every single event with * has to be changed back to *** with the script except for the /me.
Posted By: MonoSex

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 12:38 PM

Why not just script a different /me output?
Posted By: Inquisitor

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 02:59 PM

yep I have tried the following:

[00:00] * Me says test (Action)

[00:00] *** Me says test

[00:00] ** Me says test

[00:00] [A] Me says test

But.. I just couldn't accept them and went back to 6.01. Now with 6.1 out and still no fix it looks like I have to go script every single event back to the *** prefix. Not a nice option but I don't really have a choice if I want to keep up with the mIRC versions.

Unless.. mIRC 6.11 implements a choice where you can choose between *** and * as the event prefix, just like it was pre-6.02. That would save alot of work. And I also try to avoid scripting up events unless necessary as the script processing takes up some CPU time. I have noticed this to be quite obvious when alot of text is being parsed.
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 03:24 PM

If you are determined to say that it's broken then you don't understand what the word means. *** was INTENTIONALLY changed to *. This is not a bug and it's not broken, regardless of whether you happen to like * or ***. It's all a matter of personal taste and as Monosex said it's easy to script over and the scripting for it is small, not big.
Posted By: pheonix

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 03:27 PM

on ^*:ACTION:*:#:{
echo $chan $+(,$color(action),***) $+($nick,:) $1-
haltdef
}
:tongue:
Posted By: Inquisitor

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 04:14 PM

Regardless whether it was intentional or not, I'm still going to have to fix -every- single event back to the normal pre-6.02 ***. It is not a simple task.

That would requires scripting in the following events and more:
on Ban, Deop, Devoice, Invite, Join, Kick, Mode, Nick, Notice, Op, Part, Quit, ServerMode, ServerOp, Topic, UnBan, UserMode, Voice

I have to fix every single one of those events in order to get them all to display the *** prefix. This is the only way I can restore the prefix and I do not find it entertaining coding every single one of them.

on Action should look like this:
* Me says blah

and everything else like this:
*** Event

That's all the work that would be requried to restore the prefix. Perfection never comes cheap but it's not acceptable when the *** prefix was working correctly all along, then abruptly changed in 6.02+ for absolutely no reason relating to functionality. Why change something that was not broken, and working perfectly in the first place?

The inability to tell an actual event (e.g. * Blah sets mode: +m) from a fake one generated by a /me (e.g: /me sets mode: +m)showing on a log file is what I call a problem.

When you read a log file [6.02+]:
* Blah sets mode: +m
* Blah sets mode: +m

6.01 (very accurate distinction between real and fake event):
*** Blah sets mode: +m
* Blah sets mode: +m

How is it possible to differentiate between the actual event and the fake? I was able to do this before 6.02; I am now unable to do so. Therefore this is an issue, and I'm calling it broken.
Posted By: r0ck0

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 04:22 PM

Wow, you really should take a pill for that.
Do you really have such a big problem with people doing fake bans that it's got your panties in a twist like this?
There are changes made in every version that doesn't please everyone .. I'm sure there have been changes in the past that you liked but pissed someone else off, and if they had made a post like this, you would have wondered what all the fuss was about. Just script around it. Do you not like scripting? If not then I suggest that you go and get one of the kazillion scripts out there that has a couple or a few features that you need and the rest is bloated with a bunch of crap you don't need.
Posted By: pheonix

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 04:42 PM

Quote:
That would requires scripting in the following events and more:
on Ban, Deop, Devoice, Invite, Join, Kick, Mode, Nick, Notice, Op, Part, Quit, ServerMode, ServerOp, Topic, UnBan, UserMode, Voice

on *:RAWMODE will cover voice,op,servermode,serverop,usermode,ban,unban,help,deop,dehelp,owner,deowner and devoice.
Posted By: Inquisitor

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 18/09/03 06:06 PM

Thanks. I will make it a point to get the prefix fixed to pre-6.02 in 6.1 as efficiently as possible tomorrow.

I do like 6.1's network-independent perform list which lets me free up unnecessary scripting to auto-perform for 2 networks.

I don't except alot in software. Just perfection.
Posted By: Watchdog

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 19/09/03 04:35 AM

I don't understand why people think that they will get falsified events in logs. In just over five years of IRC I have never once come across someone typing a fake mode or kick event and I think that I have seen most of the lame things that can possibly happen on IRC.
Posted By: codemastr

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 19/09/03 11:39 PM

Quote:
It ain't fixed because it ain't broke

So the original way of using *** was broken? Because Khaled decided to "fix" that. Even though users have asked numerous times to have it changed, it still isn't. I really still see no reason whatsoever why there can't be a "prefix string" setting.
Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 20/09/03 08:44 PM

Well, your IRC experience is yours only. There are thousands of people in a lot of networks. So, we can't assume common things like event faking, which I've seen a lot before, BTW.
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 20/09/03 10:09 PM

agreed everyones experiance is thier own ... also ive never encountered a reason to go back in the logs and check any mode changes set by ppl. if your not able to trust the ppl with ops in the room then they shouldnt be ops.
Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 20/09/03 10:50 PM

Actually, the problem shows itself when you're *not* concerned about it.. lets suppose I'm some user who's just checking his logs, then I suddenly find a bizarre mode change.. depending on the context, of course, I get confused.
Another example are "log <-> html" addons and the like, which can be fooled.

About trust in operators, that depends on the channel environment. For example, there are a lot of channels which work giving op to anyone who joins. Whether anyone thinks it's a bad channel administration or not, this is the owner's matter. I'm glad mIRC doesn't dictate any channel administration point of view.
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 12:57 AM

well im using mircstats for channel log interpretation and im not having any tricky modes being passed that would confuse it?
Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 02:14 AM

mIRCstats must do a thousand of checks to validate things. And it still could have flaws.

Anyway, regardless of whatever situation anyone brings, I don't see any advantages for this prefix change and I doubt anyone does.
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 02:52 AM

well ive got it pulling stats from a logfile that is currently 11mb and it takes less than 5 seconds to compile its stats create its webpages and then upload them to my site. i really dont see the problem. maybe if your using a free program which doesnt allow for checks like mircstats youd have problems .. but the 15 bucks to register it to fully use all its features in my opinion was well work it ..... and with that program as well it was a onetime registration fee with free upgrades. it also has the ability to configure it to newer versions of mirc or even to your scripting output if u have changed it in your mirc. basically if u dont like the default method your able to change it in your scripting and then change how mircstats looks at it to evaluate it. So really what your complaining about is a minimal thing in my opinion and its easily overcome.
Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 04:06 AM

Quote:
well ive got it pulling stats from a logfile that is currently 11mb and it takes less than 5 seconds to compile its stats create its webpages and then upload them to my site. i really dont see the problem. maybe if your using a free program which doesnt allow for checks like mircstats youd have problems .. but the 15 bucks to register it to fully use all its features in my opinion was well work it ..... and with that program as well it was a onetime registration fee with free upgrades. it also has the ability to configure it to newer versions of mirc or even to your scripting output if u have changed it in your mirc.

You didn't get it. I said mIRCstats isn't easily fooled because it does a lot of checking. I didn't criticize it in any way, didn't even mention its speed or anything. The subject is mIRC's prefix change. I won't script a lot of checking, nor use a third-party program and pay for it.. just to read a log file. Not when a better solution like changing the event prefix to something decently unique can exist.


Quote:
basically if u dont like the default method your able to change it in your scripting and then change how mircstats looks at it to evaluate it. So really what your complaining about is a minimal thing in my opinion and its easily overcome.

Yeah, it's clear to everyone that the prefix issue is a minimal thing. But what we're suggesting is quite a minimal thing as well, though it makes much more sense.

Prefixes exist for a reason. There is the event one, there is the action one etc. Having the same token for both is inconsistent and defeats their purpose. You could ask if I'm a colourblind who doesn't realize there are different default colours for both. Well I'm not, but a log file is.

While the issue seems "easily overcome" to some people, to me and other people it's not.
I don't want to use a script that will display actions eating multiple spaces. I don't feel I'm supposed to need to script any ugly workaround for this behaviour either.

Plus, the "script it" solution applies to the ones who know mircscripting and want to use it. There are people who can't be bothered with it and mIRC is dedicated to these people as well as to the ones who script.

Since Khaled has changed the prefix, he could change it back or make it customizable, respecting users like me as well as users who don't script.


Concluding, the best thing for everyone is to have the ability to modify the prefix. Nothing else. And that's our suggestion. No one is going to die if it's not going to be accepted, but there is really no argument that could invalidate its benefits (at least until Khaled appears and shows it).
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 04:22 AM

so basically your asking to be able to modify a prefix which can currently be done by a script quite simply really, but when someone asks for say identifiers added that will allow manipulation of nicklists... being able to change the @ !and + to icons and such..... ppl frown. So maybe you could take some consideration on my seeing its rather pointless to add something that can be done already using scripts rather than not adding something that u have to have a dll to do. personally i think thats rather redundant to add to something that can be done and not add something that cant currently be done, but hey maybe im wrong. then again its all up to khaled to decide what he does with his program.
Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 04:45 AM

Ok, I'm not going to discuss about what I already explained very well in my last post..

Quote:
so basically your asking to be able to modify a prefix which can currently be done by a script quite simply really

Please show us a simple script that modifies the prefix for actions and keeps multiple spaces. Meaning it should not add ugly ctrl codes or ugly chr 160 or anything else everywhere, it should keep the message as is. Suppose you want it to be exactly like without a script, but with a different prefix.
Unless you can do that, you can't say changing a prefix can be done. You could say changing a prefix and messing with the message display can be done, maybe. And maybe this seems a solution to you. Well, it isn't to me, for my own reasons. Everyone has different IRC experiences, usage, environments etc. That's why while you think the suggestion is redundant, I think it's a much better solution.

If things weren't added because they could already be made, we wouldn't have $eval() and such.

(Sorry about the double post if you're receiving this through email)
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 05:59 AM

on ^*:action:*:#: {
echo $color(action) $chan $timestamp *** Action:8 $nick  $+ $1-
halt
}
}



this is what i currently use to display my action text differently than the standard format

this doesnt change my action text i send so i also make an on input event if $1 is a /me example:

on *:INPUT:*: {
if ($1 == /me) {
echo $color(action) $chan $timestamp *** Action:8 $nick  $+ $2-
.ctcp $active ACTION $2-
halt
}
}


i dont think those 2 events are all that hard to script? im not sure what u mean by ugly control codes as i only change the color of the nick making the post ... at any account im sure if those 2 events arnt exactly what your looking for then its atleast gotta do something pretty similar

Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 06:20 AM

It seems you didn't read my posts..

"While the issue seems 'easily overcome' to some people, to me and other people it's not.
I don't want to use a script that will display actions eating multiple spaces. I don't feel I'm supposed to need to script any ugly workaround for this behaviour either."

"Please show us a simple script that modifies the prefix for actions and keeps multiple spaces. Meaning it should not add ugly ctrl codes or ugly chr 160 or anything else everywhere, it should keep the message as is. Suppose you want it to be exactly like without a script, but with a different prefix."


If this is not clear to you..
Code:
mIRC displaying an action:
  [color:purple][00:10:20] * cold your      script  fails    .. .  .   .    .[/color]
Your script displaying the same action:
  [color:purple][00:10:20] *** Action: [color:#999900]cold[/color] your script fails .. . . . .[/color]
What I want your script to display:
  [color:purple][00:10:20] *** Action: [color:#999900]cold[/color] your      script  fails    .. .  .   .    .[/color]
*No* ugly workarounds like using ctrl codes, chr 160 and the like. A *real* solution.
..That's what I meant.

I hope you understand it now.. as I'm getting a little tired of this subject..
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 06:24 AM

ok well maybe your unclear about the subject of this entire post...... firstly it was to ask about changing the PREFIX as mirc itself has a problem with multiple spaces ..... your not wanting a prefix thing changed ... your wanting the literal spaces issue fixed ....... thats an ENTIRELY different issue, so lets just stay ON THIS ISSUE without adding others to it. im sorry if your mind thinks of seeing one issue and then suddenly changes it into several others, i cant help the way u think.
Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 07:03 AM

Quote:
your not wanting a prefix thing changed ... your wanting the literal spaces issue fixed ....... thats an ENTIRELY different issue, so lets just stay ON THIS ISSUE without adding others to it. im sorry if your mind thinks of seeing one issue and then suddenly changes it into several others, i cant help the way u think.


..Yeah, I think you really didn't read my posts.
Lets break them into 2 easy pieces.

1st piece:
I say: I want the ability to modify the prefix, having the same display as before.
You say: Script it, it's so easy.

What I said above has always been totally clear. By suggesting to script it, you brought the multiple spaces issue already, as explained below.

2nd piece:
I say: Firstly, "script it" isn't a solution for everyone and mIRC has always considered the ones who don't script. Secondly, the result wouldn't be what I want. I want to change only the prefix. Nothing else. And, if I script it, it won't change only the prefix.. it will also change the text display, eating multiple spaces.
You say: That's another issue, you don't want to change the prefix, you want the spaces issue fixed. I can't help the way you think.

Well, I'd say I can't help the way you think, because it's pretty clear that the multiple spaces issue isn't off-topic since it is related to your supposed solution. Meaning that although you change the prefix with that, you end up with a new problem. A "solution" that brings another problem isn't a real solution, sorry if you can't understand that.

Also, "script it" isn't a real solution not only because of the multiple spaces issue. I mentioned the issue with people who don't script too. Just read my posts.

That said, since I'm not into the "multiple spaces issue" subject (geez, I'm not even suggesting here to fix it).. even if we had total control of multiple spaces, a customizable event prefix would still be valid.
Regardless of any scriptable solution, it's still valid.



Well, since I'm repeating and clarifying and repeating and clarifying and repeating what I said before, I'll just quit this thread from here. Hope you don't mind.
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 07:13 AM

ok first off you claim typing /me your ....... script fails

the dots are to display empty spaces, displays an empty space in a regualr mirc. your incorrect in that statement, mirc doesnt have the ability to display those empty spaces, so what your asking for isnt even reasonable. Therefor i do not understand what you mean by eating the multiple spaces it doesnt eat them the way i scripted it. i just tested it in my mirc with all remotes off, maybe you should do the same and then come back here and tell me im not hearing you. If your not wanting to debate it with me then atleast get your facts straight.
Posted By: cold

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 07:43 AM

Whoa, that's right. I apologize for that. blush
I actually use an ugly workaround for multiple spaces everywhere. It replaces mIRC's display by the same display with ctrl codes taking care of them. But when I tested actions and etc for this thread, I thought this workaround wasn't enabled for them, just for normal messages. Then I thought that was mIRC's non-scripted display. My bad.

So, I admit I was wrong and now I agree that, for scripters, scripting it is a solution.

However, as I said, the most people I know don't script and can't understand anything of it. I see mIRC was dedicated to these too, otherwise it wouldn't have facilities like ctrl codes stripping options ("oh script it, it's so easy").

mIRC has a lot of things which "do another's job" in some way, and this is nothing but good; we all know that.
Then, as I said again, regardless of any scriptable solution, event prefix customizing is still a valid suggestion.


Oh well, I've repeated again.
Posted By: Raccoon

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 01:52 PM

I completely agree with you Inquisitor.

I link thee to my earlier post on this matter, I Give mIRC 3 Stars. Why don't you?.

- Raccoon
Posted By: _D3m0n_

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 - 21/09/03 04:24 PM

agreed im not discounting your point that a prefix changing option would be nice ... along with being about to change < nick > brackets ..... things like this would be nicer but are scriptable
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