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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98440 28/09/04 11:19 AM
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Having 'RGB' colours (by which I assume people are talking about 24-bit RGB support) isn't suitable to a run-time environment. I've already made this statement half a dozen times in threads exactly like this so instead of repeating myself: here's a link.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98441 28/09/04 10:37 PM
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Huuuuuuuuuum.. ok, there is problems in implementation of a new standard for irc colors; but what about an meeting with the main clients delevopers and main irc networks admins? its sounds crazy for me, but the ones who have the 'power' to made changes on irc maybe like this idea; and, hum. maybe an new mode (like +C or +R) can be realesed, and if it are not setted on by the client the ircd will strip the rgb colors, for some months (or years) until it becomes standard - so users that do not have an early version have nothing for lose, anyway

and, about the difficult of remember rgb codes, when i type ctrl+c should appear the character for rgb color and a window named "select color", with a full select color pallete (basically a plane and a line, just like the windows color select), so the final users should dont worry with the codes

(i decides to reply in this post because it's more recent; but by the way, the forum should organize the order of post not by it's creation date; by it's date of last post, instead)


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98442 01/10/04 02:23 AM
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Zeusbwr Offline OP
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all i know is id like the option for my scripting, you guys can fiddle with everything else all you want lol.

And as for other users on IRC, well fiddle sticks to them lol. Its the users choice to use a color system that they may not be able to see. But overall, personally, im suprised it was limited to the color system it is now for so long, i know its just colors, but still, why limit when you dont have to lol.

And i kinda agree with the opinion that a full range of colors wont make a dif, when i think about it, K8 vs some bright RGB color dont really matter to me. But at the very least, maybe i could get some love from Khaled and make it a DCC only option, that way i win and everyone else can stick with their boring color system hehehehe. But i doubt such a thing would ever happen hehe

Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98443 02/10/04 07:07 AM
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Bersirc has the availability of the 32 bit colour range for local GUI use, the same as mIRC has for it's border colour choices. Sadly Khaled has not extended this to cover events on the screen and nickname list colouring.

I see no need to extend this to information transmitted to IRC though. Remember that most clients base their colour capabilities on 'mIRC compatability' so there is a standard in place which has stood the test of time. Given that half the colour range is barely readable on the screen anyway there's really no point in extending the colour choice beyond 16 for chat use. Many busy rooms also ban the use of colour anyway, either by +c or a +b.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98444 02/10/04 07:28 AM
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ya most rooms ban it, so why complain :tongue:. And its only "barely readable" if you use a white background. Unfortunetly i doubt such a nice little feature will be added due to the masses who are doomed to live life inside the colorblind box. Aparently walking and chewing gum is easy but reading and seeing color is not, go figure :tongue:

The way i look at it is,
You have a argument ofcourse:
A. Abuse of colors to annoy people
Answer: Well your all ready annoyed, is it possible to get more annoyed lol? I personally dont see the dif, and dont try to say i like colors, I chat the same as you scaredies, colorblind :tongue:

B. Theres too many colors already!
Well i dont see that as being nearly true, colors along with everything else is an option. All of you have the ability to keep colors 10 feet away from you. So use it :tongue:

C. Another Control Code or a change in the current Color Control Code will bring an end to IRC and the internet itself, bringing chaos to the world and reducing us all to infints allowing the true rulers of earth (Ants) to reign supreme!!
Well you yourself (You being the previous post) said that mIRC is used as the standard, if it changes, others will follow. And seeing as all the none mIRC users would be annoyed if their software didnt change, well id assume they would change.

D. The current system is a tried and true system, it stood the tests of time so why change?
Well hey, i see your point. I mean that makes so much sense to me im selling my car and using nothing but my feet, afterall man kind used them for so long why upgrade? And omg, im never going Cable, im sticking with 56k thank you very much. Theres no need for more speed. Hell with that reasoning you wont make it far in life if you cant upgrade now and then. I understand constantly changing is no good, but were not constantly changing the color system now are we?


And theres my argument:
A. It will make me happy, wee! :tongue:

Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98445 02/10/04 11:42 AM
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Quote:
B. Theres too many colors already!
Well i dont see that as being nearly true, colors along with everything else is an option. All of you have the ability to keep colors 10 feet away from you. So use it

- Just because something can be turned off doesn't mean it should be added. By your thinking if I suggest that we make a control code that makes other user's mIRC's close down it should be added. After all, people who don't like it can just turn it off right? My point is that something must have a valid and widespread use and be an improvement over any existing features. The ability to turn something off is not a reason to include a 'feature'.


Quote:
C. Another Control Code or a change in the current Color Control Code will bring an end to IRC and the internet itself, bringing chaos to the world and reducing us all to infints allowing the true rulers of earth (Ants) to reign supreme!!
Well you yourself (You being the previous post) said that mIRC is used as the standard, if it changes, others will follow. And seeing as all the none mIRC users would be annoyed if their software didnt change, well id assume they would change.

- IRC was completely different a decade ago. The number of users was probably around 2-300,000 users at most and only a couple of dozen IRC clients and IRC libraries with no specific accepted colour standard. By contrast today there are millions of IRC users and literally hundreds if not thousands of IRC clients and IRC libraries and mIRC's current colour scheme is widely accepted as the standard. Simply changing mIRC will not convince all those thousands of developers to immediately change their programs to follow suit, especially considering that for many platforms 24-bit colour is impossible.


Quote:
D. The current system is a tried and true system, it stood the tests of time so why change?
Well hey, i see your point. I mean that makes so much sense to me im selling my car and using nothing but my feet, afterall man kind used them for so long why upgrade? And omg, im never going Cable, im sticking with 56k thank you very much. Theres no need for more speed. Hell with that reasoning you wont make it far in life if you cant upgrade now and then. I understand constantly changing is no good, but were not constantly changing the color system now are we?

- The examples you've listed are all things which are improvements. I've yet to see anyone explain why 24-bit colour is an improvement, whereas I can think of half a dozen drawbacks to such a system. Use the Search feature and take a look at the other 20 or so threads that have been made about colour. It's getting really boring having to make the same points every 3 months.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98446 02/10/04 11:55 AM
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Quote:
I've yet to see anyone explain why 24-bit colour is an improvement


Because it will support a greater range of colours, simultaneously and independent of a users custom colour settings and any 'standards' that are associated with the current range. Tah-dah! Perhaps it isn't an improvement *to you*, but the fact you find yourself making the same points is probably a good indication it is to others.

/me gets a profound sense of deja vu

Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98447 02/10/04 03:03 PM
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Because it will support a greater range of colours, simultaneously and independent of a users custom colour settings and any 'standards' that are associated with the current range.

- Why not support 48-bit colours then? Hell, lets go for 1024-bit colour, because hey, more is better! What's the point of having a greater range of colours if half the people you chat with can't see them because of limited colour displays or incompatible software? If colour support were to be extended it could be done to prevent major incompatability by utilising the remaining 83 colours of the double digit format. That way it would provide enough colours that people wouldn't need to change the display of any colour, it would display just fine on limited-colour displays (older computers, PDAs, mobile phones, etc.), and it would actually be practical for IRC.


Quote:
Perhaps it isn't an improvement *to you*, but the fact you find yourself making the same points is probably a good indication it is to others.

- This forum gets thousands of visitors a day. One thread every three months or so hardly constitutes an overwhelming demand.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98448 02/10/04 03:34 PM
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Again, clearly it isn't an improvement to you. You seem intent on painting anyone that wants this changed as a zealot.

If compatability really is an issue to you, why do you insist mIRC lock itself into a future-incompatible scheme? One that, if extended, suffers the same inherent flaw as the old system? But hey, more is better, right?

I'll see your 1024 bits and raise you 16. smile

[edit]

And I wouldn't want to ignore your other point:

Quote:
This forum gets thousands of visitors a day. One thread every three months or so hardly constitutes an overwhelming demand.


Compared to what?

Last edited by Skip; 02/10/04 03:35 PM.
Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98449 02/10/04 05:36 PM
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You seem intent on painting anyone that wants this changed as a zealot.

- Well it confounds me that there are people who would sacrifice compatability and therefore the ability for clean and clear chat between all IRCers for the sake of seeing an ASCII picture of a rose in the perfect shade of vermillion instead of just red. Isn't forsaking the main function of IRC for their own niche use an act of zeal?


Quote:
If compatability really is an issue to you, why do you insist mIRC lock itself into a future-incompatible scheme? One that, if extended, suffers the same inherent flaw as the old system? But hey, more is better, right?

- Assuming it were put up to 99 colours (0-98) using the double digit format, why would a future extension be necessary? I'm pretty sure humans aren't going to evolve so that they can see infra-red of ultraviolet within the lifetime of IRC, so if 99 colours created a reasonable level of colour accuracy why would that ever need to be extended further? I can understand to some degree that 16 colours might be frustrating for some since some fairly simple colours are not available, however I cannot see how 99 colours is not enough.


Quote:
Quote:
This forum gets thousands of visitors a day. One thread every three months or so hardly constitutes an overwhelming demand.


Compared to what?

- I'm saying that if we guess that 50,000 unique users visit this site and one thread gets made about extending colours in that time period in which perhaps 2 people come out in favour of the idea, that's 0.004% of the users of this site who really feel strongly that more colours should be added. Even if it's 1000x as many people it would still be the vast minority.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98450 02/10/04 07:41 PM
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Same post every few months, guess that means no one wants it. The reason it is an upgrade is you get more, more options, ect.

But eitherway, as i said, go live life colorblind i dont care. Its a simple thing thats made to be such a big deal, i for one am not going to fight for it like you fight against it. I have yet to understand why everyone is so deathly against it... or lemme restate that, a reason that makes sense.

But as i said "i doubt such a nice little feature will be added due to the masses who are doomed to live life inside the colorblind box". So w/e, in the coding aspect i drool over the thought, iv the theme aspect i drool over the thought, in my simple default font and white background i still drool over the thought (shades of blue! wee), but ppl are afraid of simple change, and for good reason. After all, it is change right? Change is evil! :tongue:

Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98451 02/10/04 07:53 PM
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Quote:
- I'm saying that if we guess that 50,000 unique users visit this site and one thread gets made about extending colours in that time period in which perhaps 2 people come out in favour of the idea, that's 0.004% of the users of this site who really feel strongly that more colours should be added. Even if it's 1000x as many people it would still be the vast minority.


Or maybe they have read these threads befor and relize it is a pointless effort to try and improve mIRC and IRC itself due to people like you. I would love to see IRC go more mainstream due to all the teeny boppers with their Aim and MSN.

Dont try and take the unvoted and make them on your side. If i wanted i could make the same statement because they havent all posted on how to use irc that none of them use irc. Or because they have stated an opinion on liking irc they all hate it.

I'll believe they dont want more colors (whatever they may be) when all 50,000 post against me. So go you freedom fighter, speak for the unspoken for to justify black and white! POWAH TO DA PEOPLE!

hehe

Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98452 02/10/04 08:04 PM
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I'm sure he could keep the current system too, then let you choose which one you want to use.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98453 02/10/04 09:59 PM
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Same post every few months, guess that means no one wants it. The reason it is an upgrade is you get more, more options, ect.

- I never said no-one wants it. 'More' does not equate to 'better'. Haven't you ever heard the phrase "less is more"? Lets add an option that allows you to make all the vowels on the page flash blue and red when I press F12, more is better after all.


Quote:
But eitherway, as i said, go live life colorblind i dont care. Its a simple thing thats made to be such a big deal, i for one am not going to fight for it like you fight against it. I have yet to understand why everyone is so deathly against it... or lemme restate that, a reason that makes sense.

- Which reasons don't make sense? The fact that 24-bit colour won't work on low-colour displays? The fact that the average person doesn't know and doesn't care about RGB colour values and wouldn't have a clue what colour AE564B is (nor shold they have to)? The fact that it's completely infeasible to expect people to type 6-digit codes while chatting in order to make a colour. The fact that breaking compatability with thousands of peices of software hurts IRC as a chat medium (you know, that little thing known as it's *purpose*)? Which of these reasons do you not understand? Which don't make sense? Please tell me so I can explain them better for you.


Quote:
But as i said "i doubt such a nice little feature will be added due to the masses who are doomed to live life inside the colorblind box". So w/e, in the coding aspect i drool over the thought, iv the theme aspect i drool over the thought, in my simple default font and white background i still drool over the thought (shades of blue! wee), but ppl are afraid of simple change, and for good reason. After all, it is change right? Change is evil!

- Right. I disagree with one thing that you suggest with half a dozen reasons so obviously I'm against all change as a rule. That's 100% true. I'm against everything but the norm. It's clear that you've read all my posts and understood them correctly because you have summed me up perfectly. Well done.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98454 02/10/04 10:07 PM
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Or maybe they have read these threads befor and relize it is a pointless effort to try and improve mIRC and IRC itself due to people like you. I would love to see IRC go more mainstream due to all the teeny boppers with their Aim and MSN.

- See my post above where I congratulate you on your sterling pschoanalysis. Just out of curiousity, what the hell does AIM and MSN have to do with IRC?

Quote:
Dont try and take the unvoted and make them on your side. If i wanted i could make the same statement because they havent all posted on how to use irc that none of them use irc. Or because they have stated an opinion on liking irc they all hate it.

I'll believe they dont want more colors (whatever they may be) when all 50,000 post against me. So go you freedom fighter, speak for the unspoken for to justify black and white! POWAH TO DA PEOPLE!

- Read what you quoted again. I never said anyone was 'on my side' or that everyone who didn't post a thread like this was against extra colours. I said "that's 0.004% of the users of this site who really feel strongly that more colours should be added.", as in the other 99.996% of users don't feel strongly that more colours should be added. Nowhere do I say that they're against extra colours.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98455 02/10/04 10:11 PM
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Yes but that still doesn't help John_Smith using non-mIRC 6.2+ client who starts seeing ab2f5eh0a3498eaf6829lab2f5el9087d3o there appear on their screen because their software doesn't support it.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98456 02/10/04 10:53 PM
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Who cares?

If there's a newer version of the software available then you should either upgrade or put up with any compatibility issues you have.

If you're talking about a different client, not a different version, then the same rule applies, they should update their software or put up with the issues.

It's like people complaining about mIRC 6.03 being affected by the dcc exploit.


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98457 02/10/04 11:05 PM
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Who cares?

- People who use IRC to chat.

Quote:
If there's a newer version of the software available then you should either upgrade or put up with any compatibility issues you have.

If you're talking about a different client, not a different version, then the same rule applies, they should update their software or put up with the issues.

- Why should any other software have to follow pseudo-standards made by a single random peice of software?


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98458 02/10/04 11:18 PM
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- People who use IRC to chat.


- If client developers cared enough about their users, they would gladly update their software to suit the users needs, and extra colours can only help chatting (providing there is a way to strip them too).
I would much rather read something in turqoise (not on a white background, though) than plain old black or blue - I know I can change my own colours, but i'd rather see the colours people are using.

Quote:
Why should any other software have to follow pseudo-standards made by a single random peice of software?


- They shouldn't... unless they want to keep the compatibility.
Saying he shouldn't add it because it will break compatibilty is silly, if you thought of everything that way then nothing would ever change!


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Re: More colors, instead of K0-15/16 #98459 02/10/04 11:28 PM
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Ah yes, F12, well we all know if microsoft did that they would FORCE you to press F12 and use it :tongue:

As for everything else, aparently im not being literal, im trying to prove a point. But w/e, im busy and dont care as you have your opinion and i have mine. I happen to like it, you dont. Simple as that.


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