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"Join the Global Protest against War" #9506 03/02/03 09:44 PM
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Before I start, I just want to say that this thread is probably going to prove unpopular - especially with the poster of the "stop the war" piece on the front page (tjerk I guess) ...

[fume]
the mIRC website isnt a news outlet, its not a propoganda machine (or, atleast, it shouldnt be) - and having the weakest possibly link to IRC by saying "IRC has always been about communication, about dialogue." in an attempt to justify the propoganda on the frontpage is - in my honest opinion - absolutely absurd...

I am against a war on iraq, but I am even more against what can only be described as an abuse of the large mIRC userbase by the article poster expressing their own views on a subject which is utterly unrelated to IRC.

I must say, I am very dissapointed.

IRC is about communication, sure, but its about everyone having their own personal views. IMO such a prominent client as mIRC should not - under any circumstances - be sending a political message out to irc users. We look at the mIRC website to check for updates for our client! not to be told about news of anti war protests.
If we want to have news about the marches, there are thousands of ways that interested parties could find out about them, let alone all of the real news outlets which will be covering them, or the people who stop us in the streets to tell us about them
[/fume]

*dissapointed*

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9507 03/02/03 10:50 PM
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The_Game Offline
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You do make a good point on the fact that this subject does not relate to mIRC and I myself am against a war that basically is just one big "Prick" contest...HOWEVER, and I myself may contradict any previous postings that I may have posted, but IRC is a way to communicate with one another and the views that other people may have on the subject at hand.

IRC isn't just a bunch of people sitting in a chatroom saying "LOL" all the time, Its about people sharing views with one another or meeting new people, so you see this does correlate with IRC one way or another. People on IRC may have family that they do not want to see go overseas. I see that subject everyday while online and everyone that I talk to are against it.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the mIRC homepage have a fund raiser for the American Red Cross? So you see you can come here and find out about updates to your client and share views and thoughts and yes I dare say protest a potential war. Just think about it...Sitting in a chatroom saying "LOL" every three seconds isn't all you see, People do protest the war within the chatroom...so with that being said, Case closed!

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9508 03/02/03 10:58 PM
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On top of what The Game said, would you care to explain how it is in any way an abuse of power for someone to post their own views on their own website? I'm afraid I just don't see the logic.

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9509 03/02/03 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Now correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the mIRC homepage have a fund raiser for the American Red Cross?


Raising money by donating registration of mIRC is one thing... a purely political message is another...
If khaled wants to donate all proceeds from feburary's mIRC registering to MUAWI (made up anti war international) - fine, put that on the front page - but having a purely political message is just an abuse of the popularity of the irc client and those who want to find out about mirc!

[edit]
Besides - the fund raising efforts were directly linked to mIRC, so it was entirely appropriate to display information regarding them
[/edit]

Quote:
People do protest the war within the chatroom...


The mIRC website is not a chatroom - it is much closer to compare it to the mirc-announce mailing list. One (or two) people control the content on it for thousands (millions) of others to see.
If khaled/tjerk wanna protest about the war, I completely support them in their views - but the mIRC website is not the place for it

Last edited by randomuser; 03/02/03 11:22 PM.
Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9510 03/02/03 11:06 PM
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I agree with The Game and Collective. OK, so this forum isn't a chatroom - but it is a community, and people have a right to express their views. Especially the site owner :tongue:


Never compare yourself to others - they're more screwed up than you think.
Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9511 03/02/03 11:09 PM
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Quote:
would you care to explain how it is in any way and abuse of power for someone to post their own views on their own website?


Certainly.

The main website www.mirc.com is not a personal website. It is a website centered around one thing (the clue as to what that thing is is in the URL)
Khaled has his own personal portion of the site - http://www.mirc.com/khaled/ - Tjerk has his own too http://www.mirc.co.uk/krejt.html

The main page, and (afaik) all others except the two exceptions mentioned above are aimed at the community - providing information, links, help, forums, etc about IRC - not about iraq or war or anything else.
If the poster wanted to post the "article" (for want of a better description for the segment I believe should not have been posted), then they should have done that on their personal website - not abusing the popularity of the mIRC website to get more people to notice it.

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9512 03/02/03 11:18 PM
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Quote:
I agree with The Game and Collective. OK, so this forum isn't a chatroom - but it is a community, and people have a right to express their views. Especially the site owner


This forum isnt the issue either
The main page is - and that isnt a community. The information provided on the main site is supposed to be FOR the community, and since the political message has got nothing to do with the community, it is out of place.

Yes, people have a right to express their views, however, me using my invitation to talk at a conference on global warming to express my views on why peas are tasty is totally inappropriate (although well within my rights) and is likely to make people pissed off at me and not ask me back to talk at the conference - because its just not "acceptable" to discuss other subjects - regardless of how strongly I think I think that peas are tasty

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9513 03/02/03 11:25 PM
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Quote:
The information provided on the main site is supposed to be FOR the community

...says you. The owner of a website can do whatever they like with their webservers (law permitting). It is not for you to allocate bits of the mIRC webservers for use in different ways, that is left to Khaled's discretion.

Quote:
Raising money by donating registration of mIRC is one thing... a purely political message is another...

Whoever posted it truely believes that this protest will help save the lives of many innocent people in Iraq, so in their mind it will be a "moral duty" to get as many people to notice the protest as possible, and therefore hopefully get more people to go (which is, after all, the point of a mass protest).

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9514 03/02/03 11:29 PM
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Does it really matter? Nope. I myself along with probably thousands may millions may agree that a war isnt really necessary, however you started this post which is gonna futher into an arguement on political issues. And if ICQ or Kazaa or any other site decide to support the protest more power to them...But like i said this issue does correlate to thousands of chatters and their views. But who are you to say this isnt the proper place to display such a subject....If Khaled and Tjerk want to post their views and get potential support from others on a potential war that could affect everyone one way or another then more power to them.

But if they decided to post a message saying: "To the families and friends of the crew of the shuttle of columbia, our hearts and prayers are with you" Would that be wrong if you think it is then I say you are in the wrong. It is simply a message stating where people stand and you may have your own views and opinions and you are entitled to that. Also, you should expect a reaction because like I said before you are just furthering an argument that doesn't need to go on and on.

My opinion, your opinion, and someone else's opinion may all be different or may be the same. You had a point that this doesn't relate to mIRC and where your views stand are respected but will not be agreed with. A potential war does in fact impact everyone in the world whether you are on an island in B.F.E or in Iraq, China, and yes even Canada. So you see the homepage for mIRC can announce different things from servers to the latest version, Protests or anything that pertains to the latest news.

I do not know if you have seen them but there are "News bots" in chatrooms that announce the latest turn of events. That really isn't necessary but people do want to know whats going on in the world...People do have lives you know. Back to the subject at hand, If there was a post stating that mIRC had to be pulled because of politics and Khaled and Tjerk wanted to protest that, would that also be wrong? So with that all being said AGAIN, I say let's not further this anymore. If you want to whine, bitch, piss and moan that the mIRC affiliates decide to voice their opinion and ask for support from others to not have a potential war is just isn't necessary. Who are you to say it shouldn't be expressed?

To Khaled and Tjerk:
I, along with probably hundreds, if not thousands support your views...Keep up the good work!

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9515 03/02/03 11:31 PM
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geez the first person that comes to my site and tells me i cant post something i ask em to start forking over money to pay for the content of the site too ....... whiners!


D3m0nnet.com
Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9516 03/02/03 11:40 PM
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randomuser Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

The information provided on the main site is supposed to be FOR the [irc] community
...says you.

says the creater of this website.
Welcome to the mIRC Homepage!
The mIRC homepage provides the latest news on mIRC, general IRC information, and links to many other IRC-related websites and resources.

Quote:

The owner of a website can do whatever they like with their webservers (law permitting). It is not for you to allocate bits of the mIRC webservers for use in different ways, that is left to Khaled's discretion.


I have never said that khaled was not entitled to post it, or that it was illegal or that he CANT do it - I have said that it is highly inappropriate and an abuse of the viewing figures that the website attracts due to its aim at the community.

Quote:

Whoever posted it truely believes that this protest will help save the lives of many innocent people in Iraq, so in their mind it will be a "moral duty" to get as many people to notice the protest as possible, and therefore hopefully get more people to go.


I acknowledge that it cannot be viewed as a comparison, but just to show you that what you said is not necesarily "a good thing"(tm) , Al queda operatives believe that it is their "moral duty" to commit acts of terrorism against the western world.

Using the front page of a community orientated website to advertise something which has nothing to do with irc is an abuse of the popularity of irc and mIRC

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9517 03/02/03 11:50 PM
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well at that point u could protest by deleting ur forum account here and try to persuad others to follow ........ goodluck in that quest as in my opinion i could care less bout a protest or a war for that matter ....... i for one just breeze right thru the main page and come straight here ..... couldnt tell u 3 things on that page ...... i veiw main pages to websites as covers to a book ....... ever see them colorful romance novels with the pretty pics on em .... and ya open the book up and not one pic in it??? ....... go off and protest the use of that there too ..... like what does a red haired floppy shoe wearing guy gotta do with burgers???? mcdonalds dont care ...... man get over it ...... ur gonna read content u dont agree with everywhere ..... u gonna start a moral issue about every little thing?


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Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9518 03/02/03 11:58 PM
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Quote:
says the creater of this website.
Welcome to the mIRC Homepage!
The mIRC homepage provides the latest news on mIRC, general IRC information, and links to many other IRC-related websites and resources.

Just because it says what it does do doesn't mean it can't do anything else.

Quote:
I have never said that khaled was not entitled to post it, or that it was illegal or that he CANT do it - I have said that it is highly inappropriate and an abuse of the viewing figures that the website attracts due to its aim at the community.

Quote:
Using the front page of a community orientated website to advertise something which has nothing to do with irc is an abuse of the popularity of irc and mIRC

That's like saying putting billboards on busy roads is an abuse of the popularity of the road. The billboard and the advert on the homepage are both there for roughly the same purpose: to attract people to do what the advertiser wants, in this case, to go on a march supporting peace with Iraq.

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9519 04/02/03 12:31 AM
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It is not an abuse of anything... it is Khaleds website and he is completely entitled to do as he pleases with it. All the same links are still the same..the article was hardlt instrusive.. so I don't see how it is inappropriate. I think it's very commendable of them to try and aid others by using this site to put forward a cause.

Abusing the popularity of the client would be putting something within mIRC itself... although still perfectly within Khaled's rights.

I see it as utililizing the popularity of the client to try and gain support for a cause that is trying to save peoples lives.. similar to the red cross thing..

And your analogy STINKS. This is THEIR website..they were not invited by anyone to speak or post on it. They are the host..therefore they make the decisions.

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9520 04/02/03 01:01 AM
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Quote:

says the creater of this website.
Welcome to the mIRC Homepage!
The mIRC homepage provides the latest news on mIRC, general IRC information, and links to many other IRC-related websites and resources.


It doesn't say 'and nothing else'. If it said that the content was exclusively related to mIRC & IRC, then you might have a point.

Quote:

I have never said that khaled was not entitled to post it, or that it was illegal or that he CANT do it - I have said that it is highly inappropriate and an abuse of the viewing figures that the website attracts due to its aim at the community.


This is not the first time that mirc.com (and I'd imagine, its mirrors) have been used for non-IRC related purposes. Someone has already mentioned the Red Cross appeal. I'm fairly certain that over its lifetime, the website has displayed information on a variety of non-IRC related topics. In this sense, the trend has been around for a while and is not foriegn to the website viewers. In fact, one could argue that it helps make up part of mirc.com. It's nice to know that I'm supporting an organisation that cares about other people. I'm sure that's why billions of dollars every year are pumped in to charities by businesses.

In the end, the viewers will decide.

Something tells me that we won't see any drop in viewing numbers wink

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9521 04/02/03 04:31 AM
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I'd like to point out that some/most people pay Khaled $20.00 for their use of MIRC. Thereby helping to financially support this website. (And even Khaled to a degree.) So, according to your reasoning, they can 'whine' all they want. Why you use words like 'whiners' is your problem. Khaled used the main page for a POLITICAL statement. He coached his words, but it is still a POLITICAL and personal statement about Iraq. If he is against all war, then why doesn't he show his feelings about Iraq's invasion of Kuwait which started all this? Or the civil war in the Ivory Coast? Or China's occupation of Tibet? Or the destruction of the Twin Towers? You can talk all you want about this is Khalid's site, and personal statements, etc. But what is the name of this site? What is its stated purpose? By the way, what happened to all the Kuwait prisoners of war taken by Iraq 12 years ago? Kuwait wants them back. And the poison gas used on the Kurds? Is that in the main page?

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9522 04/02/03 04:55 AM
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Why don't you ask Khaled that? He does have an email address...noone here knows his opinions, so you can't expect D3m0n to answer questions on them.

Quote:
I'd like to point out that some/most people pay Khaled $20.00 for their use of MIRC. Thereby helping to financially support this website. (And even Khaled to a degree.) So, according to your reasoning, they can 'whine' all they want.

They pay for the use of mIRC, they do not pay for the hosting of the website directly, nor for the right to use the website, so it is out of the equasion. Following your (flawed) logic: I bought WIndows XP therefore I should be able to decide what MicroSoft put on their website.

Quote:
You can talk all you want about this is Khalid's site, and personal statements, etc. But what is the name of this site? What is its stated purpose?

The website's stated purpose is not a contract with anyone. He has not signed a piece of paper agreeing not to express himself. Regardless, your opinion of his choices are neither here nor there, just don't visit the website if you don't like what's on it.

If you do not understand that the owner of a website has the right to decide what is on it then you are obviously not very intelligent.

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9523 04/02/03 07:54 AM
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Your post has nothing to do with mIRC at all except how you blame Khaled for an opinion....That by the way does the message on the front page speciffically state posted by Khaled or Tjerk? Nah didnt think so...They may agree with the protest but does that mean that that message came directly from them? Nah didnt think so either. They just simply put that up in (ok say it with me now S-U-P-P-O-R-T of protesting a pointless skirmish...) I apologize if my earlier post may have pointed fingers at them directly...

The simple fact is that nobody...and I mean nobody, has the authority to tell the webmaster otherwise! If you simply want to keep dragging this on so be it. If you don't agree with it who cares go ahead and start a club or something with a stupid little handshake about posting a political statement on webpages...GET OVER IT!

Now, back to the subject at hand AGAIN! The simple statement is clear and yes even optional (imagine that) that if you want to support thousands of others in a campaign against a war you may go that website or whatnot and simply state your opinion you can. If you don't want to then thats ok. But simply pointing fingers at Khaled and Tjerk for what was that again? Oh yeah for posting a political view from an organization not affiliated with mIRC at all. But somehow I don't see an unwritten rule stated in any HTML handbook on making webpages....(somebody if i overlooked that rule please do let me know)

So unless you got something to say that even closely resembles intelligence. Say It. If not shut up and let someone else who is intelligent speak!

*Steps down off his soap box, reaches into his pocket to pull out some lighter fluid and a zippo...proceeds to douse the soap box with lighter fluid, lights the zippo and drops it on the center of the box! Walks away as the soap box burns*

Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9524 04/02/03 09:40 AM
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/me quickly pours water on burning soap box and jumps on it

Quote:
I agree with The Game and Collective. OK, so this forum isn't a chatroom - but it is a community, and people have a right to express their views. Especially the site owner


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This forum isnt the issue either
The main page is - and that isnt a community. The information provided on the main site is supposed to be FOR the community, and since the political message has got nothing to do with the community, it is out of place.


YOU were the one who made it into an issue in the forum. Nobody else. You could have simply ignored the main page. I fail to see how posting a link to a non-irc site that is protesting against what is obviously going to be a catastrophic event is harming you in any way. It's not as if anyone's personal views are stated, for God's sake. All it does is point people to a site where they can protest if they wish to do so. Well done Khaled and Tjerk, for having some insight.


Never compare yourself to others - they're more screwed up than you think.
Re: "Join the Global Protest against War" #9525 04/02/03 09:41 AM
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Thanks Tjerk and Khaled. I'm with you against the possible military crime.


Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet
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