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It's time to kill FSERV #84825 01/06/04 06:40 AM
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PastMaster Offline OP
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So anyway, there I was this morning, opening up the mIRC message boards, and what do I see? Since yesterday, another 3 or 4 requests for help with downloading and "file swapping" issues.

I don't think that anyone can deny that mIRC is now perceived by a large proportion of its new users as a file-trading program, and not as a chat program. How many times have we heard "well, my friend said I could get movies/albums/warez/pr0n on mIRC"? Anyone who doesn't believe this should hang out on a large network's help channel for a while, or look at how many help channels have felt it necessary to specifically state that they won't help with these issues.

While I respect Khaled's point, stated here, that file sharing is a part of normal communication - hey, it's great to see a pic of the person we're talking to and find out how wildly incorrect our preconceptions were - I nevertheless think it is high time that some of the confusion about what mIRC is was removed by excising FSERV from mIRC.

The key problem here is that by explicitly allowing file *serving* (as opposed to the ability to transfer files one file at a time by "manual" DCC) mIRC has come to be seen as designed explicitly for this purpose.

I am well aware that the immediate result would be the appearance of file serving scripts instead - well that's just fine, because it will at least be clearer that mIRC *itself* is not a file transfer system.

I am also sure that we'll have some passionate defences of leaving file serving inside mIRC proper, but I tell you now, my own opinion on this isn't going to change - so like me, if/when you post one, be prepared to face the fact that we'll just have to agree to disagree! wink

Lastly, I suppose it's possible that some people will argue that file serving is a useful marketing tool for mIRC, encouraging people to download it in the first place - meaning, theoretically, that more people are likely to register. Personally, though, I don't think that someone interested in getting "free" illegal software, files etc. is very likely to then PAY for mIRC...

Just my thoughts

PastMaster


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84826 01/06/04 08:20 AM
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I agree.

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84827 01/06/04 10:35 AM
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Agreed also

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84828 01/06/04 02:55 PM
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The_Game Offline
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...also agreed!

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84829 01/06/04 02:58 PM
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Danthemandoo Offline
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actually, killing fserve won't help a great deal. The most used method is called XDCC whereby the bot lists its packets in the channels, the user sends a trigger and it sends or queues the file. This is all done entirely in a script and doesn't rely on fserve at all.

Besides i'm sure an fserve subsitue could be knocked up in next to no time by some scripters.

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84830 01/06/04 07:44 PM
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Rounin Offline
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I agree with you on that. Though that will of course cause a flood of questions about where the fserv went.

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84831 01/06/04 08:21 PM
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CtrlAltDel Offline
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I agree, except .. if it's removed from 6.15 (or whatever version) we'll still have the people that are still using 6.14 (or 6.12, or 6.03, or 5.91 ... etc. etc.) coming here with the same questions. Or the ones with the "new" version asking where they can get the older versions THEN asking the same lame questions. I just don't think the problem is going to go away no matter what Khaled does to mirc (short of shutting down the forum, which we all do not want to see).

Perhaps if we simply stopped replying to people with those questions they'd stop coming (and stop telling their friends to come) here.

Last edited by CtrlAltDel; 01/06/04 08:28 PM.

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person. wink
Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84832 01/06/04 09:22 PM
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landonsandor Offline
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(thinking out loud)

Actually, if it were removed from 6.15 (or whatever the next version was) AND it was stated that this feature will no longer be supported at all we could simple make a sticky about it and then stop replying to such threads. What Khaled would then have to do (and I dont see it happeneing for MANY reasons) is then dedicate the board to ONLY the past few versions.... so like for example, current release "minus four" versions as a buffer.

However, that being said, you make a VALID point and it would never stop so we'd (if we chose to completely stop giving help on this) just have to ignore all the appropriate threads. Of course then the board would be devided by "you helped "Xyz" with their problem so why not mine?" and the "They werent trying to mass file share" response.


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84833 01/06/04 09:28 PM
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milosh Offline
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Hi to you all. I THINK that the best way is to reply to that kind of posts with the link that will explain everything. smirk


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84834 02/06/04 03:27 PM
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[AOL]I agree[/AOL]

If I want to send some information, or someone wants to send it to me, I use email. My AV program automatically checks all incoming and outgoing emails for nasties and I also have a better idea what I'm getting as some discussion has to take place before the "transfer".

The only things I've ever exchanged are ASCII text files (scripts, documents, etc.) or the occasional picture.

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84835 02/06/04 09:24 PM
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NightCrawler8283 Offline
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i sdont see how taking out dcc is going to solve anything. people will just use other chat clients, or use older versions of mirc. www.mircx.com has every publicly treleased version of mirc available for download. also as said about XDCC bots. they are more wideley used but mostly for large files such as programs and movies. but mirc is usually used more for mp3 in my opinion. and most of the good mp3 serving scripts are made for earlier versions of mirc.

illegal filesharing has not dropped at all. as the record labels start sueing users. the more of a hype it becomes. kinda like a online riot.

that being said. all in all. excluding dcc wont solve much of anything but cause more problems.


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84836 02/06/04 10:44 PM
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Rounin Offline
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I don't think the idea was to remove DCC, but Fserve.

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84837 02/06/04 11:41 PM
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NightCrawler8283 Offline
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not many people really use the mirc fserv. i know i havent. most people use a trigger system that works off the dcc.


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84838 03/06/04 10:35 AM
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PastMaster Offline OP
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I never suggested removing DCC - quite the opposite, I agree with Khaled's point about file transfer being part of communication.

If you think it through, the "well people use XDCC more anyway" approach actually supports the idea that FSERV can be removed from mIRC...

Note that this is not about what is possible with scripts or using other methods - in fact my original post stated that I would EXPECT an increase in 3rd party scripts to do file sharing.

What this IS about is how mIRC, the program, is perceived. I would like mIRC to be perceived as a chat program, not as yet another file-sharing system. Removing FSERV would contribute to making that distinction.

(Incidentally, while you obviously didn't read my post, you evidently don't read the newspapers either - there have been several surveys indicating that legal action HAS caused a - slight? - decline in the number of people illegally distributing copyrighted material. Just a thought.)

PM


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84839 03/06/04 11:48 AM
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Quote:
If you think it through, the "well people use XDCC more anyway" approach actually supports the idea that FSERV can be removed from mIRC...


Tried thinking it through, but failed. Removing a feature that is becoming less abused, whilst paying no regard to the people that actually use the feature? So these 'new users' who aren't even aware of the proper function of IRC and mIRC, now dictate what features the client should support? Features they probably don't even use?

The file server can be handy. When I don't want to run/configure a ftp or www server to grant someone access to files, I will use an /fserve. When I want to serve illegal material, I will leave my systems insecure and let the kiddies play. I guess it's a moot point that most of those xdcc servers you see are compromised machines? That most of the posts frowned upon on this board regard downloading? That people can, and will, make their own decisions (and mistakes) regardless?

This type of stance (a stance only, as you yourself concede it will have no bearing on people 'file sharing') is simply a slap in the face to those that DO, or WILL, use the feature legitimately:

Code:
* /fserve has been disabled: oh my you must be a warez kiddie

Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84840 07/06/04 12:19 AM
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SoundLad Offline
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I tell you something every IRC network ive ever been to and gone into a Beginners or any other help channel i tell you something people who are willing to help you i grieve with em cause i tell you the ammount of questions is asked about FSERV or DCC or XDCC etc its getting out of hand i recon half the population is using illegal copys of something i recon you are using something which youve downloaded or what ever.. But there are a few people who do actually Pay for there stuff.. Now i aint going to say i do cause for some of the things i havnt i do download mp3s now and again.. You now most people must do it or have done it once either with MP3's or Software or Movies... someone has done it.. But i agree with pastmaster mIRC is a chat program its not a FILESERVER or XDCC server.. DCC should be allowed only to be activated by Button only cause the way XDCC works is just a /dcc command and that should be removed and only the button to send a DCC is to be allowed.. And not to be used in a script like format.. But i dont now other people have different views and the both FSERV and DCC has been in mIRC since it started so its unfortunate that if its stopped now it will start loads of stupid questions again.. Anyway i'll close now i dont want to hog the Message Board...

smile


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84841 07/06/04 11:30 AM
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NightCrawler8283 Offline
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try not to insult my intelligence next time. what i was saying with "screw the fserv. take DCC" is not many people use fserv in mirc (which means maybe its being used legitimitly?) but more people use DCC triggers for mp3s more. so tell me. which one would have a greater effect on people sharing? dcc or fserv? sounds kinda 2 sided actually. you get rid of the fileserver u get rid of DCC as well. but hey. i will just leave this open and you guys can argue about it amongst yourselves. seeing as the fserv is an original feature of mirc. i doubt that it will be removed for the same reason DCC will not.


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84842 07/06/04 12:07 PM
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starbucks_mafia Offline
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Removing the fileserver won't have much of an impact on filesharing on IRC in terms of preventing people from doing it. Then again neither would removing DCC altogether - in fact there's nothing that mIRC can do that would stop people from filesharing if they want to. That's not supposed to be the point of removing the fileserver, the point is that it's annoying saying to someone "mIRC is a chat client, it's not for filesharing" when you know that they can come back and say "well why does it have a fileserver built-in?". Removing the fileserver is about explicitly making the point that there is nothing in mIRC with a primary use of mass filesharing.

Honestly I don't care much either way, I'm just explaining what the reasoning behind the 'pro-fserve-removal' argument is. Personally I've given up trying to explain to people what IRC is about. If someone on IRC asks me about filesharing I just kickban them right out. Not a particularly nice thing to do, but then I'm not a particularly nice person.


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84843 08/06/04 08:48 PM
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PastMaster Offline OP
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Quote:
illegal filesharing has not dropped at all. as the record labels start sueing users. the more of a hype it becomes.


According to Reuters today, ""The number of infringing music files available on file-sharing networks fell to 700 million this month, down 30 percent from the all-time peak of 1 billion in June, 2003""

PM


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Re: It's time to kill FSERV #84844 09/06/04 04:35 PM
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NightCrawler8283 Offline
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they get those statistics from kazaa and crap... of course the percentage is going to decrease.. the users are going elsewhere now for their music and movies because filesharing programs are cooperating with authorities.

Quote:
A year ago it launched a multi-pronged effort to promote sanctioned online music stores such as Apple Computer Corp's iTunes while suing those who share their music collection with others on peer-to-peer (P2P) networks such as Kazaa and WinMX.

Berman said the carrot-and-stick strategy is showing signs of paying off with the number of infringed music files on P2P sites in decline, and awareness growing among consumers that file-sharing is a criminal activity.


^^^from your beloved reuters. which supports my statment that its basically a statistic of kazaa and other P2P sites.

there has to be millions more on irc alone. and as we see on the boards here. a couple new ones a day


-Nick (Darko)
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