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Opinions here please? #82706 11/05/04 02:26 PM
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Dizkonnekted Offline OP
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Hi All,

OK, first let me say that this is an idea I have been playing around with for some time now. I may regret this! :tongue:
Onward..... I love mIRC, it's a great program, but man the help file needs *serious* updating!! shocked

Why?
Well like most curious people, at some point, I decided to see if I could write a script for myself in my spare time, so I turned to the help file and started writing my own aliases and popups.

That was fun, then I got hooked and decided to keep going, and thats when I hit problems. Now I can hear people say already, 'whats wrong with the help file'?

Well something I found was, there just is not enough examples. The help file is great for giving an example of the syntax of something, but the example is usually very short.

Some items in the help file dont even have an example, just the syntax of its use.
All that said, the point I am coming to is this.
I am willing, with some help, to start over and make a new 'unofficial' help file that I can post on my website, with examples abound.

So I have come here looking for scripters willing to help. I am not talking about making another mIRC scripting help website, although content will be posted as I get it.

I am talking about making an actual help file that people can download, with tested examples. This will not be an easy task and will take some time to complete, so I am throwing it out into the open, is anyone willing to help?

If so send me a message on the board or email me, serious offers only please! wink
I'd be interested to see what people think, I'm doing this because I like to help people, I actually enjoy it.

My job consists of helping people daily, so if I can help some people understand mIRC's scripting options, all the better! grin

Best regards,
Diz


Dizkonnekted from reality....!
Re: Opinions here please? #82707 11/05/04 06:45 PM
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The_Game Offline
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This has been requested. See this recent post.

Re: Opinions here please? #82708 11/05/04 07:24 PM
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tidy_trax Offline
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He didn't request an updated help file, he requested scripters to help him make a better one.


New username: hixxy
Re: Opinions here please? #82709 11/05/04 07:29 PM
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bunar Offline
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this would be good project (imo)

Re: Opinions here please? #82710 11/05/04 11:23 PM
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Dizkonnekted Offline OP
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Hi Guys,

Ok, first up, since I am replying to The_Game's post i'll start there. I know it has been requested before, but what I am actually saying is I am willing to get the ball rolling on this, so to speak.

I am looking for people to assist me though. A lot of people think this is a great idea and agree that the help file is lacking in places, but nobody seems to want to step up to the bat!

I've taken the first step, who wants to join me on my journey? wink

Regards,
Diz


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Re: Opinions here please? #82711 12/05/04 03:56 AM
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The_Game Offline
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My god I am going blind! I apologize for my own error as I did not fully read the post...just skimmed it cause I was on my way out the door for a job interview. After re-reading everything in this thread, I gotta say I agree that this would be a great idea...

Again, I apologize it is clearly indicated that I have the vision of a mole.

Re: Opinions here please? #82712 12/05/04 04:42 AM
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You might even consider going to Khaled (or whoever) and seeing if they'd approve a scripter-made help file in mIRC. That way he doesn't have to be bothered writing an updated one. A new help file, with a lot more examples and helpful hints, would be beneficial for all of mIRC users.


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Re: Opinions here please? #82713 12/05/04 06:51 AM
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NOT BOTHER with writing a help file?!?!?!?! mad

I think that as paying customers we are entitled to expect a LITTLE more support from the program author himself than 'not bothering' with a help file! Once again, I have to say that this is a question of customer service... and of respect for one's customers.

Having said that, having input from other people, particularly in terms of providing examples, could well take some of the weight off KM-B's shoulders - and if that speeds up the overhaul of the main help file, then I am definitely in favour. I would certainly prefer this to a secondary unofficial help file not avaialble from mirc.com.

PM



IRCnet & DALnet @#travelersinn
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Re: Opinions here please? #82714 12/05/04 07:01 AM
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Mentality Offline
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Umm..

mIRC may indeed be Khaled's job, mIRC Co. may be a company (?) but it's not like mIRC has a big office in London with people dealing with customer complaints or whatever. I think you should be a little more thoughtful as to exactly HOW much work Khaled already puts in to the client, it's not like the help file is the only part to get on with, is it? I can see where you're coming from, I cannot see the reason for the tone you gave.

General: Indeed, I see no reason as to why Khaled wouldn't accept help - we're helping all the time, both users and him, by dealing with the people that need help and post on the boards. Quite why you're only concentrating on the scripting concept evades me, seems a little silly. There are a number of basic/general options not fully explained (when you think from a newbie perspective) - i.e. "reload logs" feature. I'm sure you wouldn't DENY re-writing these options, but you're making it sound as if it's ONLY for scripting. The help file does not help ONLY with scripting, so re-writing it to include ONLY scripting examples is wrong.

My 2 (early morning) cents.

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: Opinions here please? #82715 12/05/04 11:33 AM
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Well, my remarks were not directed at KM-B himself, but rather at the person suggesting that there was no need to bother with a help file - evidently not something KM-B is guilty of, since there IS a help file!

To clarify: I think the help file needs an overhaul.

Quote:
I think you should be a little more thoughtful as to exactly HOW much work Khaled already puts in to the client, it's not like the help file is the only part to get on with, is it?


I think we all realise how much work goes into mIRC - but frankly, what is the point of putting all that work in, if the end product is not properly explained to its users? Many of them won't be able to get the most out of this great (and I really DO think it's great) product unless it's properly explained.

It's no good pretending that mIRC is just a personal project any more, it's a major income earner. Any competent business person (and since I run my own rather successful small business I will class myself as one such) will tell you that the step up from very small/cottage business to a larger more successful business requires a certain change in approach.

My personal opinion, oft stated on the boards, is that it is no longer sufficient to say "look in versions.txt" (the complete version of which is NOT distributed with mIRC anyway) for information on certain features - can one adequately look for what one does not know exists? Especially if one is a new user trying to learn about, e.g., scripting?

Lastly... I would have thought that 9 years to put certain features/information into the Help file was enough?!

PM
Getting off his soapbox at last


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Re: Opinions here please? #82716 12/05/04 11:54 AM
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Dizkonnekted Offline OP
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Afternoon all,

Ok, I want to be perfectly clear here, to avoid any confusion.
I am an avid user and fan of mIRC, and this message board, I visit here on practically a daily basis.
I have visitied here for a long time before I registered on the board too.

I am always impressed with the speedy responses and in general, more than one post on how to do something is the 'norm' so to speak.

What I am talking about doing, is re writing the WHOLE help file, from a complete beginners standpoint, with examples all over the place, just like you would find on this message board!

As Mentality says "There are a number of basic/general options not fully explained ", not only in the 'scripting' section.

I'm not sure contacting the man himself would yield any great results either, I'm sure he gets hundreds of emails a day and has more important things to be concerned with?
I dont know, I'm just guessing here! :tongue:

I need help to do this, wether Khaled agrees with it or not. It sure would be nice to have official approval though!!! grin
If the general opinion here is that I should contact him and it would make a few people step forward to help, I'll do it with gusto!!

I'm a little dismayed that not a single person here as offered any help so far! confused
I dont think it needs saying but anyone that helps out will get full credit naturally.

The more people that help the better! Think of it like another linux project, with helpers contributing from all over the place for a common goal...............a new help file! grin

I'm going to do this anyway, but I would really like some help!

Best regards,
Diz


Dizkonnekted from reality....!
Re: Opinions here please? #82717 12/05/04 11:58 PM
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hey dude...count me in. drop me an email at darko(AT)curbed.org


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Re: Opinions here please? *BUMP* #82718 13/05/04 06:55 PM
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Dizkonnekted Offline OP
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Hi All,

Ok I have decided to give this an offical name and beg a plea again for more helpers!
I've given this the rather lame name of 'The Help File Project'. :tongue:
Although I thought is had a certain quality to it at the time! cool

So far two people, yes thats right 2, have stepped forward to offer assistance. So once again, if you feel you can contribute to this, please drop me an email, or send me a notice on the board here.

As soon as I finish here I'm going to send Khaled a notice on the board here and see what he has to say on the matter.
I'll let you know the response if I get one.

So come on guys n gals, wouldnt you like to be part of 'The Help File Project'?? wink

Best Regards,
Diz


Dizkonnekted from reality....!
Re: Opinions here please? *BUMP* UPDATE! #82719 17/05/04 12:34 PM
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Hi All,

Ok I have posted a notice to Khaled here on the board, I thought this may be the best place to get him as he must recieve hundreds of emails per day, but so far no response.

I will send him an email anyway today and see if that gets his attention any quicker!

I did not really expect him to get back to me anyway, in the meantime I will be contacting the people that came forward and offered help, and to those people I offer my thanks once again.

I am going to kick start this today, establishing contact first with the people that offered help and drawing up a plan of action on how we will proceed. Soon after this we will begin and this thread will fade into the distance...... shocked

I plan on getting started Monday of next week and I will be uploading a page ( to my website for now ). I'm giving people that may not have seen this thread yet the chance to still get involved and for Khaled to hopefully get back to me.

Please remember that we are working on this in our spare time and that it will take some considerable time to complete, I have the basics in place however and hopefully we will make good headway! wink

I would be interested in knowing however if the people here at the message board would like periodic updates??

Best Regards,
Diz


Dizkonnekted from reality....!
Re: Opinions here please? *BUMP* UPDATE! #82720 19/05/04 03:38 AM
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c'mon peeps! I found out he only has 3 responces??? - you all suppport mIRC help on the boards, why not help with another VERSION of the help file,, the curent one is GREAT, but could use a few tweaks. I may have missed it,, but "scripter version"? Isn't that more or less what the point is, to help scripters.. the help file on general functions is PERFECT. It's SOME of the "scripting" info that could use a few more examples.. moreso for beginners.. but none the less. It makes perfect sense, and could even get the "official" tag of being part of/or mIRC/Khaled "approved" down the road.. and if your monitoring this thread Khaled, maybe some input from you on what would help YOU, and free up more of your time in perfecting the BEST IRC program out there!
Also, I think a general description of the different "services" maybe a few links within the "project" would be beneficial... what do you all think?


sometimes these are as bad as quit messages :tongue:
Re: Opinions here please? *BUMP* UPDATE! #82721 19/05/04 09:08 AM
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Mentality Offline
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Quote:
c'mon peeps! I found out he only has 3 responces??? (etc..)


I do wish posts asking people to sign up would stop, it's just becoming hassle now. Diz has provided more than enough information for people to make a decision for themselves, it would be ashame to see this turn into some bugging "salesman" thread.

Quote:
I may have missed it,, but "scripter version"? Isn't that more or less what the point is, to help scripters.. the help file on general functions is PERFECT.


To clarify, the help file is not just there to help scripters. Diz has already pointed out that the project is not solely for scripting areas of the help file, and I have pointed out that there are some general features that are not explained fully. Try looking at things from a newbies perspective.

Quote:
and if your monitoring this thread Khaled, maybe some input from you on what would help YOU, and free up more of your time in perfecting the BEST IRC program out there!


I don't wish to speak on behalf of Khaled or anything, but I'm sure you're aware of how sparsely Khaled posts/replies. Could be for many reasons, I'm wagering time constraints and if he replies to one thread, people may dislike him for not replying to the thread they started elsewhere, and when he gives an opinion of something people tend to go into a frenzy.

Quote:
Also, I think a general description of the different "services" maybe a few links within the "project" would be beneficial... what do you all think?


What services? ChanServ/NickServ/X? Well, they're not part of mIRC which could cause some confusion, aswell as many networks don't support Services, so people may wonder what they even are, and be looking for some sort of feature in mIRC. I remember, the first network I used was DALnet and for the first year and a half I did not venture to any other network. One day when I did, I was amazed to find out Undernet did not have nickname services...jaw dropped heh!

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: Opinions here please? #82722 20/05/04 08:27 PM
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dissendent Offline
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im in its a great idea