Forums General Discussion MIRC Developers: (possible copyright infringement)

This msg is directed towards MIRC Developers.

Some information regarding copy right infringement. It is my belief that www.yahoo.com is infringing on MIRC's copyrights regarding chat/channel management.

Unofficial story: Dictates yahoo is using ghost bots to manage their chat rooms.. which act very much like chanserv for an IRC channel. They kick/ban people from chat rooms when certain xplicit topics are discussed and/or have a similar "hit list" like IRC's (shitlist, banlist) whatever u want to call it. It puts certain users known to cause trouble on their chat rooms on a list to be logged out of chat automatically... to the point their accounts are locked up for 24 hours. The reason I am posting about this is to find out if the developers are aware of this issue. And I was wondering if it does infact violate their copyrights regarding IRC. Also cause yahoo chat pissed me off

Evidence: A united Kingdom website posted information regarding this type of "ghost bot" as soon as I find the link I will post it on here. Also, yahoo is not telling it's users that they have this "ghost bot" running on it's chat server. It is my belief the bot hops room to room scanning the room for malicious names and logging them off chat for little or no reason at all. Also logging off other users when certain explicit information is discussed in their chat rooms.

Why?: I just wanted to inform MIRC of the situation in hopes they can OWN yahoo chat for copyright infringement should any exsist.

Anyways let me know if anyone else is aware of this issue or w/e.

Thanks

-Skeet

You're confusing a few things. First off, a channel or network management bot is not copyrighted. DALnet has Chanserv, Undernet has X, quakuenet has L, most network have some form of channel management services.

Second, mIRC cannot do anything about it. mIRC is simply a program that allows you to connect to an IRC server using the IRC protocols. Microsoft uses the same protocols for its MSN stuff. Yahoo! can equally set up chatrooms.

Furthermore, I expect you didn't bother reading the fine print in Yahoo!'s user agreement or whatever it is the user agrees to when they connect to the Yahoo! network. They might make mention of these practices there, and connecting means you agree to that. DALnet does the same when they scan a number of your ports on connect. By connecting, you agree to the scan. Then again - since simply running a few bots to check content isn't violating any laws, they don't even have to do that.

Also cause yahoo chat pissed me off

Well some things piss me off too. If it's web related I just give my opinion on the issue (despite the fact that this sometimes un-necessarily raises eyebrows), then move on. As such my advice to you is find another network to chat on.

IRC is not the same as mIRC.

As it says at the beginning of the Introduction to IRC, IRC ""was originally written by Jarkko Oikarinen in 1988. Since starting in Finland, it has been used in over 60 countries around the world. IRC is a multi-user chat system, where people meet on "channels"... to talk in groups, or privately""

mIRC is simply a client that allows Windows users to connect to such IRC networks and channels quickly and easily. mIRC does not run networks, servers or channels - it just lets Windows users join them.

The people administering networks or channels have various ways in which they can manage them. Some networks use visible bots/services to do this, and some - like DALnet - use ChanServ and NickServ which are NOT visible on channel.

If Yahoo!, as network administrator, wishes to run something similar, they are entirely entitled to do so - after all, it's their network. More to the point, while the webpages and logos of various networks are copyrighted, the ircd code need not be... every network is, I would say, EXPECTED to "tweak" the code to suit its own needs, that's why not all networks operate in the same way...

PM

locut,

respectfully, I understand what you are saying. But it is also against yahoo compliance to use any type of channel management on their chat servers. The reason yahoo set their chat rooms up in sucha mannor is the freedom of speech/expression. MSN had a severe problem with this as well. (also why they have about 5 clients/15 bots in their channels. The point is... their original policy stated no monitoring to some degree of their chat rooms. Now, they are logging people off... locking their accounts... for little or no reason at all. I know cause it's happend to me 6 times already. Not that I chat there much anyways. IN any case, I know what IRC is and MIRC. I've used IRC for 8 years. The main reason to this post, was just wondering if there was a copyright infringement... after reading up on MIRC a lil more I realized was not developed here in the U.S. where the laws are a little more sticky regarding this issue. Specially in the way of copy right infringement.

Locut,
Also, I realize how IRC/MIRC works. yahoo chat.. is unmonitored in contrast, has no "Moderators" now all of the sudden they use a bot to moderate their channels.. which is "IRC/MIRC like" that is why i thought there was an issue involvoing copyrights.

Is it the administrator of the network who runs these bots, like chanserv at their disgression for security reasons? (that maybe why i'm confused. I thought it was a characteristic of IRC/MIRC.)

In any case I appreciate the points of view.. however I still think yahoo is incorrect managing their channels in this way. just my opinion.

Thanks

-Skeet

P.S. like i said not trying to cause a flame war.. was just wondering if there was something wrong with this issue is all.

"Is it the administrator of the network who runs these bots, like chanserv at their disgression for security reasons? (that maybe why i'm confused. I thought it was a characteristic of IRC/MIRC.)"

Nope - IRC is simply the chat protocol itself, the foundation bricks for getting to chat with people worldwide. mIRC is the viewing screen that makes IRC make sense! You can't have one without the other you might say. Neither however come with any sort of administrative "bot" or service. They are loaded on to the network/server and if the bot or service uses mIRC to do this then it's within their rights to do so. This is unlikely however. IRC services are generally programs unto themselves and are part of the IRCd, they do not have their own client. As for bots, they might not necessary be using mIRC.

"In any case I appreciate the points of view.. however I still think yahoo is incorrect managing their channels in this way. just my opinion."

Welp, I'm afraid there's not much we can do about that - Yahoo!, like any other IRC service, sets their own rules. Channels can kick you out for any reason they like, server IRCops can have you disconnected for any reason, including no reason. This page may be of interest.

That said, I highly doubt Yahoo! *want* to drive users away, that's simply madness and they don't benefit from it. Perhaps you should search around and find a way to contact Yahoo!, preferably a department that is related to the chat feature, and see what exactly is going on

Happy chattin' & G'luck!

Regards,

Mentality,

Thanks for clarifying situation. I just wanted add. I do not connect to yahoo chat via MIRC/IRC. They don't use IRC/MIRC to host the bots. Based on the interface of their chat clients.

In any case I see your point now. I have read their small print... But as for driving users away.. they can afford to do so... all the porn bots they have on their chat rooms pay yahoo to advertise there.... on top of the fact they are charging $3/month to chat without bots... so ya.. they can afford to lose people... It wouldn't hurt them any.

Thanks again for the info though.



-Skeet

I think you're bringing up an interesting problem though, Skeet.

I personally hate chatrooms that censor the conversation (apart from outright harassment of course), and at the same time I've had a hard time finding popular and active chatrooms for people who are open-minded in that particular way.

I can only wish you good luck!

I personally hate chatrooms that censor the conversation (apart from outright harassment of course), and at the same time I've had a hard time finding popular and active chatrooms for people who are open-minded in that particular way.

Probably because alot of people discuss subjects that they'd feel comfortable discussing in a milk bar whilst eating their fish and chips. There are networks that allow a free for all and others that don't so complaining about the ones that don't is pretty pointless.