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#77868 04/04/04 03:37 PM
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I have noticed that more and more people get infected by crap. and often it happens when people open a url pasted to them in a channel or query, why not ad somthing like a "advicor" .. then have a button for it somwhere in mirc.. "if you think you are infected with a trojan/virus, go to this site URL to som free online virus scanner" .. and maybe have a section about it in the help file? many users know they have a virus/trojan, but they dont have a clue on how to remove them.. i get questions about this every day online.. just a tought..


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#77869 04/04/04 06:36 PM
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This is often a big debate, usually ending with two opinions:

1) More needs to be done to help users for various reasons (language barriers, computer illiteracy etc)

2) At some point the buck must stop at the more experienced people's side, and people must take the advice that is given to them and apply minimum common sense.

I do think however, that perhaps www.mirc.co.uk/help/virus.html or a version of it should be included in the help file. I have to agree with the whole "language barrier" issue though, perhaps an idea could be to translate that help page and put links to other language versions of it on the English page (i.e. at the bottom, "View this page in: Spanish, Arabic, Turkish, French" etc etc).

I think mIRC already plays it's part in virus prevention - that website for a start, the numerous posts on the boards, not helping with mass/illegal file trading, and of course a semi-new feature that pops up a warning when clicking on URLs (I think you still use 6.03 so maybe you weren't aware of this).

A security advisor button? Hmm, it could be an idea, but I think an area in the help file would be good, with a link to the URL above.

My 2 cents.

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
#77870 04/04/04 09:14 PM
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I agree it could be helpful to include a link to http://www.mirc.co.uk/help/virus.html in the /help accepting files area of the help file.

However, to have some button to click in mIRC to go to an online scanner i disagree with. You cant rely on any one AV software or online scanner to catch everything, which is why in that link and in the sticky trojan resources thread we suggest several things. Its always best to use more than one resource, and to close any open applications while running those resources. Many networks have info on their websites for resources and virus help channels as well.


ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
#77871 04/04/04 09:31 PM
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since i get the same question every day that information on the networks sites dont get trugh to the users.. and i think that this will help many users remove the problem befor it ends up with a g-line.. and wouldent be much trubble to add it ether.. many users dont see it like a "mirc" problem, they only see they have a trojan/virus, and often they dont even know where they got it.. many users think they got it trugh e-mail.. but as i have been proven time after time its true mirc and som www url pasted to a channel/query.. and this was just an idea of how to help many mirc users around the world.. smile


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#77872 04/04/04 10:10 PM
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(general reply - with discalimers where needed)

It's a GREAT idea to have it there. The problem is actually a simple one. Without there being some GLARING way to make it obvious to people, the people who NEED it WONT RTFM as they dont now. New users (which are also some of the most susseptable (SP?)) dont take the time to READ what the program does and doesnt do and thus any information stored in the help file is USELESS until they actually take the time to READ it. (notice I said the INFO not the USERS)

New mirc (not limited to just mirc) users DONT RTFM because:

1) a lot of it doesnt make sence until you need it and it is explained (sometimes it's best if explained by a person)
2) "it wont affect me" syndrome
3) ALL I want to do is chat so I dont NEED to read all this $hit....... hey, what's that link for? ........ oh man, I have a virus, how did that happen? Who's hacking my mirc? Holy $hit, how did that get there? What did I do??? I didnt do anything wrong, it's all MIRC's fault.

I know this sounds QUITE harsh (or even rediculous), but we know (those who have been around a while and have seen this happen time and time again) that's how it truely works. People use things they dont understand WITHOUT reading about it. Now again, I realize this is all harsh sounding and I dont mean it to be. It's simply the truth, as I see it; nothing more, nothing less.


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#77873 04/04/04 10:26 PM
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i see your point, but there would be probs if they were told to just click some button in mIRC. As i mentioned, no one resource is going to find everything. (and how do we choose which one to send them to anyway?) We'd also need to come up with a way to tell them to go back and close mIRC while they do the scan. If that one misses finding something, it could lead to false sense of security in more ways than one. getting trojans is easy, cleaning up after them can get pretty complicated. having ppl assume they can just click a button in mIRC and everything will be all better would be misleading. not to mention that they may figure oh what the heck, i dont need to worry, all i have to do is click a lil button to fix everything so its ok to click/accept all i want.

I think a better way to help users is to educate them. Keep a good list of resources to pass along. there are so many trojans out there, clicking on urls is just one way to get infected. more prevalent perhaps, but certainly not the only one ppl get IRC type trojans from. i'm all for adding more info to the help file. altho honestly, ppl dont look thru the options or the help file most of the time to begin with. thats why help channels and forums like this one see the same questions over and over. thats just part of helping smile

addition:
oh wow Landon, good point, i didnt even think of that. i can just see it now, users running to help channels thinking they have a virus just cause they noticed a button for virus scan. i dont mean to sound like i'm belittling anyone, i'm not. Heaven knows we were all new once, but i can easily see just what you described happening. We've all had users who think nickserv is a person stalking them and stealing their nicks, or a global msg from a server is someone trying to hoax them, etc. New users arer easily overwhelmed and seems like its human nature to look for a person to help you rather than RTFM.

Last edited by ParaBrat; 04/04/04 10:37 PM.

ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
#77874 05/04/04 10:13 AM
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IRC networks could also play a part. Mine places dangerous URLs in the server-side swear filter. It's alot easier to do this than put up with people complaining about the usual "IRC is unmoderated medium" anachronism. It's called community service.

#77875 05/04/04 10:29 AM
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What constitutes a 'dangerous URL'? What constitutes swearing for that matter? I hope that you're talking about some kind of mode for channels/users that can be turned off as the user sees fit.


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#77876 06/04/04 11:53 AM
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+L

The mode can and is overridden globally though. What's the point of blocking URLs known to be dangerous only to have channel owners disable it?

Definition of a dangerous URL == one that is known to lead to a website that has infected people's computers.

Defenition of swearing == probably any word that is blocked here.

Refer to the dictionary for further information.

#77877 06/04/04 01:35 PM
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Quote:
The mode can and is overridden globally though. What's the point of blocking URLs known to be dangerous only to have channel owners disable it?

Definition of a dangerous URL == one that is known to lead to a website that has infected people's computers.

- Well the obvious answer is that the ability to warn people of dangerous URLs currently doing the rounds is removed, and as anyone who's ever been witness to a security vulnerability being discovered and covered-up, ignorance is not a preventative measure. The people who want to get hold of the dangerous URLs can and will, and the people who are too stupid not to follow URLs will get themselves infected when the 'attacker' sets up a new page with the exploit or uses a simple redirect to evade your blocking. At the rate at which exploit sites are created, and the negligable time that it takes to set up a new webpage I really don't see how you think individual blocking of URLs that are "known to lead to a website that has infected people's computers" makes the slightest dent in the spread of infections.


Quote:
Defenition of swearing == probably any word that is blocked here.

Refer to the dictionary for further information.

- Which dictionary? English? French? Italian? Russian? Spanish? Doesn't matter I guess, I've never owned a dictionary that made the distinction between swearing and non-swearing. If you meant that the swear filter is globally enforced aswell, the obvious problem with that is freedom of speech. Unless you're running a network specifically for children I don't imagine the majority of users appreciate being dictated to about what language is considered appropriate for them to use. Before you make some kind of parallel between this site's filtering and your server's, the obvious difference is that this site has a specific topic of discussion in which such language is entirely unnecessary, whereas an IRC server typically doesn't.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make you switch it off or whatever, that would be entirely pointless since I'm sure that most users who have a problem with your moderation have already left your network. I'm simply trying to figure out the thinking that leads to such a 'feature' being used.


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#77878 06/04/04 07:42 PM
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I found a good trojanscanner for mIRC which will add the ability to check if its a tronan or not when an user pastes an url to an image in a channel.

Here's the url: http://www.oy.se/virusscan.asp

The script is made by Steinland at QuakeNet.

/Anders

#77879 06/04/04 07:56 PM
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1. I don't run an IRC network or make any rules for any of them.
2. If a network's policies bother you then don't use that network.

Since I didn't bother inviting you to use the one I use then do you think for a second that it concerns me that you don't use it? Yeah, I am gunna lose months of sleep over it.

The people who want to get hold of the dangerous URLs can and will...

Sure they can, guess this one http://www.*******.com/*****.html

Since you obviously can't, given that this is how filtration would display it, then how do you believe anyone else can?

#77880 06/04/04 09:32 PM
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Quote:
1. I don't run an IRC network or make any rules for any of them.
2. If a network's policies bother you then don't use that network.

Since I didn't bother inviting you to use the one I use then do you think for a second that it concerns me that you don't use it? Yeah, I am gunna lose months of sleep over it.

- You're always referring to 'your network' and how great it and it's rules are, so I naturally assumed you were at least an oper of some sort. As for the rest, you clearly didn't bother reading the last paragraph of my post because I explicitly stated what my intentions were and that I realised that people who didn't like your rules would've already left. If you're going to reply to my posts you could at least do me the courtesy of reading them fully instead of making me repeat myself.


Quote:
'The people who want to get hold of the dangerous URLs can and will...'
Sure they can, guess this one http://www.*******.com/*****.html
Since you obviously can't, given that this is how filtration would display it, then how do you believe anyone else can?

- From one of the hundreds of other networks, from websites, from word of mouth even.


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#77881 07/04/04 12:35 PM
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"your network" = network I use, not a network I own. Please excuse me, your highness, for trying to cut back on typing. The network is owned by Telstra and they spend more on it per annum than I would earn in a long time. Given that investment, I would concede that they ahve the right to use filtration functionality to block dangerous URLs if they so wish. In my time on IRC I have never actually received a complaint about it.

As for the rest, you clearly didn't bother reading the last paragraph of my post because I explicitly stated what my intentions were and that I realised that people who didn't like your rules would've already left.

If someone doesn't like having dangerous URLs blocked and took exception to them being blocked, they probably would find somewhere else to go. I don't give a damn about that any more than I give a damn about what you think. Why should I? It's not my job to do otherwise.

If you're going to reply to my posts you could at least do me the courtesy of reading them fully instead of making me repeat myself.

Your opinionated rants mean little to me at the best of times, as I have stated on numerous occasions. My first response, therefore, still stands - I don't care what you think about anything.

#77882 07/04/04 01:07 PM
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I don't care what you think about anything.

I'm sure that's how the rest of this board feels about the both of you, so, can't you two take it to private?

The original meaning of this thread has been completely lost in your bickering and having (1) new post coming up and then finding it's yet another sarcastic/rude reply from one of you is getting tedious.

I know this sounds rude itself, but needs to be said.

Thanks <3

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
#77883 07/04/04 02:46 PM
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Quote:
The original meaning of this thread has been completely lost in your bickering

- Well as I said in a previous post, my intention was to figure out the thinking behind censoring dangerous URLs - something which is relevant to the original topic. Rest assured I've given up trying to get an intelligible response on the subject.


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#77884 07/04/04 08:41 PM
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Quote:
the thinking behind censoring dangerous URLs


If I run a network, and I censor out what I consider to be harmful or dangerous url's, then I am not responsible if some dimwit clicks on one and gets a trojan or worse (because it was censored, therefore they couldn't click on it)


I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person. wink
#77885 07/04/04 08:52 PM
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uhum.. what does this have to do with my first suggestion? i talking about a button and a link to a online virus scanner.. not about "dangerus urls" .. or atlest include it in the help file, like /help virus would return the help section where som short text explains what a virus is and how to remove it "with a online virus scanner".. i just took 1 post and typed this..


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#77886 07/04/04 09:16 PM
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It's easy - prevention is better than cure, as per what I mentioned in another recent thread. I don't think mIRC should have your suggestion because it would be a case of users being sent by such a link to something that Khaled cannot guarantee the performance of.

There's no substitute for having AV software ON your computer and keeping it up to date as well as constant vigilance and good practices such as those mentioned in here.


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