Forums General Discussion Where on irc/mirc can I promote?

Where on irc/mirc can I promote? Promote my webpage? Promote other stuff like outwar, whatever it may be?

Thank you.

Looking at the three posts you've just made, it looks like you're asking us how to most efficiently spam. Sorry, but you'll be pretty hard-pressed to find somebody here that is interested in helping you further pollute the IRC networks that we all enjoy.

I've yet to use a server that doesn't specifically prohibit this type of behavior.

-chris

Heh, have an open mind. I'm not looking to spam anyone. I'm just looking for a place that allows people to promote their website.

If I wanted to I could download a bot to access every channel, Pm every person and promote my website. But I didn't do that. I went to these forums to find out a specific place that allows people to promote their website. You can appreciate that.

You say "promote your website", I say "spam" ... the difference is in the phrase we each choose to use, not in the definition of the phrases.

You probably won't be able to find anywhere that allows you to advertise for free. If you tried your bot approach, you'd probably find that you will be quickly banned everywhere and may even be dropped by your ISP. Most people aren't interested in viewing advertisements when they're on IRC.

-chris

Haha. Don't be ignorant. You believe I'm trying to do something wrong, but you haven't even given me the benefit of a doubt. All you can see is my post count and already judge me.

I wouldn't use a bot, I know the consequences. Everyone knows that it's wrong.

I appreciate you answering my question, but don't accuse me of doing anything wrong. I have no intention of spamming.

Hello provoko,

I've noticed that a few people are quick to jump on ethics rather than answering the question at hand... as a new user, I've encountered that too much already.

Now, getting back to your thread, I'm not so sure I understand what it is that you want to promote? Could you give me some insight and maybe I can help?

Feel free to send a private message. I'm open minded. :-)

Regards,

John

You will find that there are no soapboxes on the internet which directly encourage promotion of one's self or of their site or services.

There are places where such things are permitted, such as your AIM or ICQ profile or your web profile on any other community type sites. You could start a LiveJournal and promote all you want there, or better yet, allow Google to index your website and allow people to FIND your site on their own accord.

The general idea is this: Unless somebody knows you personally or by popular demand... they are probably not interested in the success of those things you wish to promote. If people allowed themselves to become interested, then they would have to make available equal time and consideration for the other 7 billion people's thoughts and interests. We are not The Borg.

So, the answer to your question. You will not find any simple location to spam your ideas or interests. However, through much work and effort, you might earn the respect and interest of close friends and of their friends and general associates, such as patrons of topic similar channels and forums. You will not find an effortless escape to popularity.

- Raccoon

There are very few things we wont help with. Spam is prohibited by most places. Spam is more annoying than words can say. It doesnt matter if you are spamming a website or a script or selling some new and wondermous gadget. its annoying. If everyone spammed no one would be able to get a word in edgewise. Heaven knows ppl are warned about clicking on strange urls due to the number of those that infect visitors.

Mass filesharing is prohibited by many networks and providers and is a source for trojans (not to mention that many files shared violate copyright laws). It would be pretty hypocritcal to say we would like everyone to pay for mIRC according to the licensing agreement and turn around and help ppl steal something from someone else. We answer many dcc questions, trying to give ppl the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time explaining the potential probs with file sharing with strangers. Trojans cause an amazing amount of trouble. Botnets have disabled entire networks, which tends to really spoil the fun of chatting. They muck up puters. Infected users infect others. Hardly surprising that an offical site set up to help with mIRC wouldnt be thrilled at either spam or anything that has high risk of trojans.

We dont help ppl evade bans or klines or employer/school policies. We dont help with war scripts/hacking/cracking. We ask that ppl post with common courtesy and not resort to name calling and vulgarity simply because they disagree with someone else.

If i went to your home and you asked that i not smoke there, call you an SOB in front of young children for no reason or spread manure on your carpet, i assume you would expect me to respect that since its your home. Well, IRC and mIRC are essentially our homes. The things we dont want to help with are the things that spoil IRC. mIRC was created to help make IRC a nice experience. Of course we cant stop ppl from misusing it, any more than a gun manufacturer can stop ppl from using their weapons to maim and kill. Just as you wouldnt expect Smith & Wesson to explain how to shoot to kill, why expect mIRC to help with things that cause probs for everyone?

Keep in mind that ppl who get answers here will tend to say "well, the guy who wrote mIRC said..." rather than "well, some guy i dont know who just happened to answer my question said...". Help given here or in official #mIRC reflects directly on mIRC and Khaled as well as on everyone who spends their time helping.

keep in mind that anything someone is not asking to see they will call spam (no matter what YOU call it). If you're that interested in promoting that stuff, may I suggest you create your own channel and "promote" to your heart's content.

Hello ParaBrat,

What is your personal policy on moderators (and users) typing verbose messages that are completely irrelevant, discouraging, and unhelpful? I could see that being somewhat of an unsolicited and unwelcome message, would you agree? Could you share with us your take on that? If you find 'spam' annoying, why do you participate in spamming the forums with irrelevant non-sense? Why contribute to a thread if you haven't anything worthwhile to contribute? Please don't smear every user and harass them for wanting to solve a problem. Unfortunately, as a moderator, you lack diplomacy on several issues and it hampers the efforts of others. You don't seem to have much to contribute except for your opinions on ethics, not the facts. I do hate spam as much as you do and I'd just as soon not see it between messages when I'm reading and trying to give someone a hand.

Now, let me remind you of a few things... I paid for my client, just like several other users. We've never met and I don't remember you offering to buy it for me. Therefore, I'm inclined to tell you that it's really none of your concern how myself or anyone else chooses to use mIRC or IRC. If someone misuses their client, harasses users, sends malicious files, downloads pirated software, etc., then that's really none of my business -- unless it involves me personally or finds its way to a network that I'm managing and taking responsibility for.

And here's my policy on helping others...: I'm honest, clear, and concise. I tell people the information they come here for, as most others do. Nobody wants a line of garbage stating: "OH NO! File sharing on mIRC is EVIL!" ... "mIRC wasn't designed to share files with!" What? If mIRC wasn't designed to share files, why does it have DCC and worse yet, file server support? Did I miss something along the way? Please, don't tell me that.

I don't assist users in "evading corporate/school policy". If you carefully read posts I make, you'll see that I normally reply to the original user. Please, let's wake up and get on topic!

Did you ever stop and think that some people might say, "Well, some forum moderator I don't know told me how to use IRC ... She didn't even answer my question." Boy, what support that is!

I am sorry to inform you, but IRC is and has been changing since its inception and it's not up to one single forum moderator on a message board to tell the world how it should be used.

Finally, guns don't kill people...people kill people. I've never walked down the street and saw a gun out walking around on it's own looking to shoot the first available person. Guns don't commit crimes.

Regards,

John

Wow, thanks Johnsie. It's been my experience on small forums like this one that everyone hates the new comer and argues anything that comes out of their mouth.

Spam is wrong. That is understood. Spam is unwanted anything. But not when you're in the right channel. Obviously there is no spam channel and I guess thats what everyone thinks I'm asking for.

So I'll ask a more specific question. Is there a channel that visits your site if you visit theres to share traffic?

Now if none exists, please don't crucify me, hahaha. =)

Hello provoko,

I don't think there is, sorry. I've not heard of such a thing, quite frankly. I wish I could be of more help.

Regards,

John

Yet another crusader. Please take the time to use the Search feature, search for "ParaBrat" and expand to 'Username' and 'All Posts' and 'All Forums' - then feel free to read over 2,500 posts and also private message many regulars on this board asking for their opinion on ParaBrat, and THEN come back and tell me she lacks diplomacy and does not contribute anything but ethics and opinions. She, and many others, users and moderators alike, have contributed hugely to these boards. Some just in the Bugs/Development section, some all over, some just in the Support section, but a lot of people have posted hundreds of times in an effort to help others.
And you make ethics sound like such a bad thing? As if they shouldn't exist? I fail to see why mIRC should support "promotion", which whether you like it or not is another word for "advertising" which in turn is another word for "spamming" and as this board helps with mIRC, the board shouldn't support it either.

I think you also annoyed people because of d00dman's clear posts stating we wouldn't help with "spamming" which is, even after reading the most recent posts, what seems to be the aim of this thread, you intercepted and were rude.

Now, we have had people here before arguing the toss about the rules. The rules have never changed, the people have, or they have been "removed" (which is another word for "banned" *wink*) and everyone else has lived happily ever after. The rules are fair, and as someone myself who has never been a great follower of certain pedantic regulations, I find these board's rules extremely easy to abide by (oh, and one of them is to NOT be down right insulting to other people).

Whether you paid for mIRC or not is irrelevant. ParaBrat has been appointed as a moderator, as has d00dman, to, surprise surprise, "moderate" these forums and enforce the rules set out in the nicest way possible - both to unregistered and registered users. The discussion has been mentioned before - "we" (users/moderators/krejt/khaled) cannot enforce upon people how to use their mIRC. Nobody has remote access to their mIRC and ban them from using it for certain things. However, just because we can't STOP it doesn't mean we have to contribute to it. We will not contribute to it.

Maybe this thread will interest you

Finally, following up with the ever-so-popular guns analogy: guns are a means to different causes, and some of those causes should not be assisted with. mIRC is also a means to different causes - and we will not help with a few of them.

Happy helping!

Regards,

- When did Parabrat, or anyone, tell the original poster how to use IRC? I can't see it. What the poster was told, is what this forum will and will not help with. Yes, anyone can do whatever they like on IRC and there's nothing anyone here can do to stop that, but this isn't IRC, it's a forum. And the forum has rules which moderators such as Parabrat and d00dman are entitled to enforce and to inform new users of.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the original post. It seems to me the guy was looking for somewhere which allows advertising, of which there are a few (I don't know of any specifically), but it's entirely possible given previous threads the poster has made that it could be taken another way and seen to be looking for places to post unsolicited advertisements. Whatever the case, it is within Parabrat's right as a moderator on these forums to do whatever she feels is right, whether you agree with it or whether it fits into your idea of 'freedom of IRC' or not.

.. and some just use proxies when "removed" *wink* *wink*

QANDO VOCE VAI DAR ESSATUA BUNDINHA GOSTOSA QE TODO MUNDO TA FALANDO?

Greetings,

I see that it doesn't make a difference what anyone says, the same people are going to descend on every post people write and clutter it up with garbage. I'll just have to insert disclaimers that I can't give people the right answer, but I'll baffle them with ethics... that or I'll just have to answer them all privately like a lot of people are having to do... enough people, my e-mail box is full! :-)

Mentality:

And please, lack of diplomacy is just that. I could pick out a dozen examples with no sweat. Finding the best biased one (out of a handful) used to suit your argument isn't much weight.

And no, your thread doesn't interest me ... none of them do. I'm a big boy now and can search for items here all by myself. :-)

I'm sorry if I upset people, but d00dman jumped the gun too. I don't think the author's thread was clear enough and I wanted clarification. If I want to dump my ethics down someone's throat, I'll do it privately unless the post specifically asks for opinion.

Yes, ethics are a really crappy thing when they pollute a post and confuse a newbie. There's a time and a place for them, but I guess not for some? Instead of making a real contribution, you simply rattle something off about ethics since you really can't contribute anything worthwhile about the subject of discussion. I personally think (after searching hundreds of threads) that you just want everyone to see your name show up in a forum while you buck for a forum moderator's position you're dying to have but probably won't get.

Finally, people wreck automobiles on a routine basis and end up killing people... Should we take those off the highway now too?

starbucks_mafia:

If you search long enough, you'll see the examples. And what's the point of having help forum if it's just going to have biased opinions and nothing worthwhile? That's the point I'm trying to stress.

Regards,

John

Man you hit the nail right on the head with that statement.
It's just a case of a brown-nosing nightmare, there are
others here that are the same way, just not as bad.

spam/promote on irc will prolly get you banned from the channel you spam/promote on.. "if you arent a channel op".. and if you are one, then you should know that many users just hate spam/promotes.. dont we get enuff of that crap in ouer mail boxes?

edit:
some networks even k-line users that spam.. "k-line = ban on the server.. you cant connect to it"

hey codemastr.. i thought you were leaving us for good.
stick to the plan.
___

The fact of the matter is, this forum is not a democracy and it is run by its moderators... quite happily I might add. If you have a quarrel with a moderator, take it up with them in private. It is absolutely inappropriate for you to discuss their [supposed] downfalls in a public and unrelated thread.

You are a new guy here and you have already surrounded yourself in a well of negativity. Your first impression has been blemished, and so your views and opinions are of no apparent concern to anyone here. Unless you intend to conform, and fast... I for one welcome you to save your breath and leave us.

You follow in the footsteps of the antagonists who have fallen before you. Please make haste so the next antagonist may take their turn.

- Raccoon

Hello Raccoon,

I am not really concerned if a democracy exists here or not. That's beyond the fact. I'm not much for conformity and conventions, so I can't speak for what lies ahead. I generally don't strike until someone else strikes first. And as for the opinions of others, that is of no concern to me either... I sleep well. Say, if there are so many antagonists before me, what does that say for the operation of the forum?

Regards,

John

All you're missing there is the Days of Our Lives music.

Using IRC to promote an Outwar page is a really really good way of losing your Outwar position. Check the anti-spam policy as given by Outwar

PM

The Intarweb has a limitless abundance of trolls. Your existence does not reflect poorly upon this board, though, perhaps the administration's tolerance of your presence may show some weakness.

You just made clear that you have no concern for the opinions of others, and that the idea of conformity is foreign to you. There were no strikes made to incite the bitterness and cruelty that you have displayed here this week, nor would they be justified had there been.

If you will never get along with the people on these boards, then just get along with life.
[color:9900AA]___[/color]

Take a moment to acknowledge and respect the type of assistance these moderators and regulars provide for the newbies and cluebies that come here looking for help. These boards are not a part of a paid customer support-- it is completely volunteer work-- and we answer tens of thousands of questions a year!

Acknowledge for a moment how schools teach children how things in life should be done and not could be done. Just because we don't cover the vast territory of things that are possible and illegal, does not mean we are bad educators. We are teaching basics and foundations, and leave it to the user if they choose to abuse that knowledge otherwise-- later in life.

"Where can I spam?" -- "No, spamming is bad, and here's why."

- Raccoon

The ethics promoted on these boards are only there to teach newbies basically how to act on IRC - Over time there has been a general 'netiquette' formed and we like to, ironically, promote that to the newbies.

There is a certain way to act and we like to think that most of the people on IRC will act like this....of course, as with all things, there will be people that don't. As I said before however, that does not mean we have to contribute to people acting in such a way. If you did bother to click the link to that thread in my last post, you would have seen that there are people who are willing to follow the fair and simple 'netiquette', and on top of this are thankful to us for guiding them and informing them.

Another reason for the ethics being put across to others is a way to back up a reason for not helping them. For example, if someone asks to advertise then instead of simply saying "We don't help with that, sorry." we can say "we don't help with that, sorry - this is because..." etc - In this case, it is likely to get the user banned from a channel, network/server or forum.

As for your silly accusation about me simply posting to get my username posted on a Forum or to become a moderator, perhaps you would like to consider that some people do just happen to like to help - everyone has their own reasons. I'm sure you've heard most of them, "giving something back" or "helping is fun" or indeed both. Sure, there are some people that help in the hope that they will gain some sort of status. As someone who has watched people help so that they can gain status in certain channels I have been opped in, I know it's possible to spot these people a mile off. I wouldn't waste my time, nor am I naive and think that defending a moderator or "brown nosing" is a quick sure fire way to getting moderator status, that is not how things work. TBH, I would defend anyone, because I am a very opinionated person and I strongly believe that people who devote hours of their time to helping others should be shown courtesy, perhaps even a little more than others because of their good nature in doing so. Again, go back to the thread I linked to last time and you'll see a number of people who devote their time to helping and deserve the credit that is given in that thread. I have spoken to ParaBrat online and she is a very nice person and easy person to chat with - only enforcing my feelings on the subject.

You're entitled to your opinion though I guess, even if nobody, except the odd lamer, does care or agree with it.

EVH: Yes, some people do evade Forum bans - one of the many reasons the word 'Lamer' exists.

I must admit I did feel compelled to reply to this post despite ethically not wanting to - this will be the last post (from me) in this thread however, because as usual this is a heated subject which always ends up in childish arguing, so I won't be posting in this thread again as it has faded away into pointlessness. Again.

Happy chatting

Regards,

Greetings,

First of all, to clear up this entire "spam" issue, I didn't even see a spam issue come up until d00dman assumed that provoko was going to spam. Apparently, he was corrected by provoko. Then, that didn't suit d00dman, so he replied again with how the forum wouldn't help with spam. Moving right along, Raccoon (and the rest of the #mIRC clique on DALnet) decided to gear up and belittle this poor fellow who (from my perspective) had an innocent question... There's a problem, however. I found his question to be quite ambiguous and wanted clarification on "promote". And since I like answering questions that are clear and concise, I asked for provoko to clear up that ambiguity.

(Just what kind of a forum is this?!)

I took the incentive to answer his question since nobody wanted to give him an honest answer...which is what he (and everyone else) wanted and deserved from the start. And, from there, ParaBrat and Raccoon completely changed the subject by misinterpreting the question of the user. I'm not going to tell you to read "this thread" and "that thread" ... if you look, you can see my stance on that.

Raccoon:
Some of my text carried over here from another thread -- so, to a degree, you're correct... but not totally.

My problem starts with false assumptions. We're human and we're all wrong from time to time. I have a problem when someone says: "Oh, he's a moderator." -- it doesn't necessarily mean he or she is correct! Some of these users and moderators have read too far into everything rather than take the thread for face value.

Mentality:


Well, wouldn't it have been far easier to skip the post (or write a private message) and move to the next rather than writing a verbose reply telling the user that you don't personally help with that topic?



Well, although that was all very nice and kind, it was a wasted thread which wasn't really important for anyone to read. We all know volunteering is a dirty job... that's why some people never bother to do it. We can alleviate problems by simply avoiding certain issues and problems.

Finally, I won't sit around and pay homage to anyone, including moderators, users, and small cliques that hang around #mIRC on DALnet. That's my conformity problem. I am not impressed or dazzled by your star rating or number of posts. I didn't come here to play a game of numbers from people that tell me: "I was here first" ... I instead started here not long ago to find out how to make a change and solve a problem I'm having with mIRC, to learn more about mIRC, and to answer questions -- not get into an ethics debate with biased people (from #mIRC on DALnet) who want to tell me how to utilize IRC and what mIRC was designed for. If I really want to know why mIRC was designed and why what features exist there, I'll ask Khaled himself... since he wrote it.

Regards,

John

I would suggest taking far more swift action against those players of yours that already spam IRC networks belonging to rival games. Nothing gets the message across faster to your players and the rest of the world that you do not condone spam than taking swift and harsh action against those people spamming your game, even if you did not request or have knowledge of their activities.

An IRC network of which I am an admin has reported a few of your players for spamming on our network (rival game, the name is not important) and we have seen the same spam from the same people in some cases days after our initial reports.

Writing an anti-spam policy is only half a step, you also need to rigorously enforce that policy.

That said, promotion of your website should include places such as google advertising, Yahoo advertising etc. Yes, it will cost you money but nobody displays advertisments for free these days.

I noticed you mentioned Outwar in your post. I only speed-read the replies so if there is detail I am repeating then this is why.

I do however also remember you telling doodman to keep an "open mind". Well, open mind and Outwar don't really go hand in hand, sorry to say. Outwar webpages are designed to be advertised in order to get more hits than the next Outwar account holder. However, Outwar also have a strict advertising policy which I think you should take note of. How do you do this? Click the link at the top-right of your Outwar web page relating to advertising abuse and read the message that appears. Whether Outwar does this as a genuine effort to curb advertising or as a way of covering their arses is another matter though I do know for a fact that they instantly delete accounts where evidence of owner advertising has been produced.

As a general rule, advertising or promotion of anything on IRC is pretty annoying. People visit IRC to communicate with their friends and associates. They don't expect you or anyone else to perform the JOIN -> "Hey visit this Outwar site it's very kewl" -> PART ritual and interrupt the conversation. Do this on most networks and you can expect to be banned fairly quickly, aside from the complaint to Outwar management and maybe also your ISP.

If all this bothers you then you should hire some billboard space to have your URL on.

I didn't even see a spam issue come up until d00dman assumed that provoko was going to spam. Apparently, he was corrected by provoko.

He wasn't corrected. It was quite the opposite. Provoko's cheeky mannerisms and specifically mentioning Outwar which most know to be a well-known domain that is constantly advertised proves this. I have even seen scripts available which opens a socket to the Outwar abuse site and sends the complaint with log attachment automatically. Would people go to this effort for any other reason? I think not.

I used the term "spam" interchangeably with "promote". I thought my follow-up post cleared that up.

When I spoke of getting banned, I was referring to the IRC servers and his idea with spam bots. I didn't even speak of the forum in my second response.

I'd like to think that over the years on IRC and moderating on these forums, I've gained some experience that might have lead to a bit of wisdom when it comes to people asking innocent-looking questions. provoko asked where he could promote something and happened to mention outwar. He also asked for the "top 5" networks (which I assume means "most popular" or "largest userbase"), as well as how to create links to pop up browsers on other users computers. Doesn't seem perfectly innocent anymore, but that's a subjective call and I don't plan on persuading anyone.

I'm sorry that you've gotten so upset over this whole thing. If I misinterpreted provoko's question, then I might owe him an apology, but I've yet to see evidence contrary to what I had first understood. It was, after all, you that turned this into an argument and then attempted to justify what seems to be a bit of a inferiority complex.

I'll likely be closing this thread soon, since it is of absolutely zero value.

-chris

Greetings People,


Lool Johnsie i am very amazed with your posts, ive been sitting 2 hours and reading everything you posted.
This program is very cool (i mean Chat) but do you people have to argue with each other because of this silly post? He Just Asked something , you all (moderators) shoud just answer

NO YOU CANT PROMOTE ANYWHERE....

well im really amazed, sorry for my bad english, but i had to say SOMETHING...
Dont make a war from a joke!