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Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69069 25/01/04 03:38 AM
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Johnsie Offline
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Hello Raccoon,

I am not really concerned if a democracy exists here or not. That's beyond the fact. I'm not much for conformity and conventions, so I can't speak for what lies ahead. I generally don't strike until someone else strikes first. And as for the opinions of others, that is of no concern to me either... I sleep well. Say, if there are so many antagonists before me, what does that say for the operation of the forum?

Regards,

John

Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69070 25/01/04 03:51 AM
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All you're missing there is the Days of Our Lives music. smile

Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69071 25/01/04 11:06 AM
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PastMaster Offline
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Using IRC to promote an Outwar page is a really really good way of losing your Outwar position. Check the anti-spam policy as given by Outwar

PM


IRCnet & DALnet @#travelersinn
:-: IRC for fun and relaxation :-:
Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69072 25/01/04 11:14 AM
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Raccoon Offline
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The Intarweb has a limitless abundance of trolls. Your existence does not reflect poorly upon this board, though, perhaps the administration's tolerance of your presence may show some weakness.

You just made clear that you have no concern for the opinions of others, and that the idea of conformity is foreign to you. There were no strikes made to incite the bitterness and cruelty that you have displayed here this week, nor would they be justified had there been.

If you will never get along with the people on these boards, then just get along with life.
[color:9900AA]___[/color]

Take a moment to acknowledge and respect the type of assistance these moderators and regulars provide for the newbies and cluebies that come here looking for help. These boards are not a part of a paid customer support-- it is completely volunteer work-- and we answer tens of thousands of questions a year!

Acknowledge for a moment how schools teach children how things in life should be done and not could be done. Just because we don't cover the vast territory of things that are possible and illegal, does not mean we are bad educators. We are teaching basics and foundations, and leave it to the user if they choose to abuse that knowledge otherwise-- later in life.

"Where can I spam?" -- "No, spamming is bad, and here's why."

- Raccoon

Last edited by Raccoon; 25/01/04 11:35 AM.

Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69073 25/01/04 02:05 PM
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Mentality Offline
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The ethics promoted on these boards are only there to teach newbies basically how to act on IRC - Over time there has been a general 'netiquette' formed and we like to, ironically, promote that to the newbies.

There is a certain way to act and we like to think that most of the people on IRC will act like this....of course, as with all things, there will be people that don't. As I said before however, that does not mean we have to contribute to people acting in such a way. If you did bother to click the link to that thread in my last post, you would have seen that there are people who are willing to follow the fair and simple 'netiquette', and on top of this are thankful to us for guiding them and informing them.

Another reason for the ethics being put across to others is a way to back up a reason for not helping them. For example, if someone asks to advertise then instead of simply saying "We don't help with that, sorry." we can say "we don't help with that, sorry - this is because..." etc - In this case, it is likely to get the user banned from a channel, network/server or forum.

As for your silly accusation about me simply posting to get my username posted on a Forum or to become a moderator, perhaps you would like to consider that some people do just happen to like to help - everyone has their own reasons. I'm sure you've heard most of them, "giving something back" or "helping is fun" or indeed both. Sure, there are some people that help in the hope that they will gain some sort of status. As someone who has watched people help so that they can gain status in certain channels I have been opped in, I know it's possible to spot these people a mile off. I wouldn't waste my time, nor am I naive and think that defending a moderator or "brown nosing" is a quick sure fire way to getting moderator status, that is not how things work. TBH, I would defend anyone, because I am a very opinionated person and I strongly believe that people who devote hours of their time to helping others should be shown courtesy, perhaps even a little more than others because of their good nature in doing so. Again, go back to the thread I linked to last time and you'll see a number of people who devote their time to helping and deserve the credit that is given in that thread. I have spoken to ParaBrat online and she is a very nice person and easy person to chat with - only enforcing my feelings on the subject.

You're entitled to your opinion though I guess, even if nobody, except the odd lamer, does care or agree with it.

EVH: Yes, some people do evade Forum bans - one of the many reasons the word 'Lamer' exists.

I must admit I did feel compelled to reply to this post despite ethically not wanting to - this will be the last post (from me) in this thread however, because as usual this is a heated subject which always ends up in childish arguing, so I won't be posting in this thread again as it has faded away into pointlessness. Again.

Happy chatting smile

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69074 25/01/04 09:17 PM
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Johnsie Offline
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Greetings,

First of all, to clear up this entire "spam" issue, I didn't even see a spam issue come up until d00dman assumed that provoko was going to spam. Apparently, he was corrected by provoko. Then, that didn't suit d00dman, so he replied again with how the forum wouldn't help with spam. Moving right along, Raccoon (and the rest of the #mIRC clique on DALnet) decided to gear up and belittle this poor fellow who (from my perspective) had an innocent question... There's a problem, however. I found his question to be quite ambiguous and wanted clarification on "promote". And since I like answering questions that are clear and concise, I asked for provoko to clear up that ambiguity.

(Just what kind of a forum is this?!)

I took the incentive to answer his question since nobody wanted to give him an honest answer...which is what he (and everyone else) wanted and deserved from the start. And, from there, ParaBrat and Raccoon completely changed the subject by misinterpreting the question of the user. I'm not going to tell you to read "this thread" and "that thread" ... if you look, you can see my stance on that.

Raccoon:
Some of my text carried over here from another thread -- so, to a degree, you're correct... but not totally.

My problem starts with false assumptions. We're human and we're all wrong from time to time. I have a problem when someone says: "Oh, he's a moderator." -- it doesn't necessarily mean he or she is correct! Some of these users and moderators have read too far into everything rather than take the thread for face value.

Mentality:
Quote:
Another reason for the ethics being put across to others is a way to back up a reason for not helping them. For example, if someone asks to advertise then instead of simply saying "We don't help with that, sorry." we can say "we don't help with that, sorry - this is because..." etc - In this case, it is likely to get the user banned from a channel, network/server or forum.


Well, wouldn't it have been far easier to skip the post (or write a private message) and move to the next rather than writing a verbose reply telling the user that you don't personally help with that topic?

Quote:
If you did bother to click the link to that thread in my last post, you would have seen that there are people who are willing to follow the fair and simple 'netiquette', and on top of this are thankful to us for guiding them and informing them.


Well, although that was all very nice and kind, it was a wasted thread which wasn't really important for anyone to read. We all know volunteering is a dirty job... that's why some people never bother to do it. We can alleviate problems by simply avoiding certain issues and problems.

Finally, I won't sit around and pay homage to anyone, including moderators, users, and small cliques that hang around #mIRC on DALnet. That's my conformity problem. I am not impressed or dazzled by your star rating or number of posts. I didn't come here to play a game of numbers from people that tell me: "I was here first" ... I instead started here not long ago to find out how to make a change and solve a problem I'm having with mIRC, to learn more about mIRC, and to answer questions -- not get into an ethics debate with biased people (from #mIRC on DALnet) who want to tell me how to utilize IRC and what mIRC was designed for. If I really want to know why mIRC was designed and why what features exist there, I'll ask Khaled himself... since he wrote it.

Regards,

John

Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69075 26/01/04 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by provoko

Where on irc/mirc can I promote? Promote my webpage? Promote other stuff like outwar, whatever it may be?


I would suggest taking far more swift action against those players of yours that already spam IRC networks belonging to rival games. Nothing gets the message across faster to your players and the rest of the world that you do not condone spam than taking swift and harsh action against those people spamming your game, even if you did not request or have knowledge of their activities.

An IRC network of which I am an admin has reported a few of your players for spamming on our network (rival game, the name is not important) and we have seen the same spam from the same people in some cases days after our initial reports.

Writing an anti-spam policy is only half a step, you also need to rigorously enforce that policy.

That said, promotion of your website should include places such as google advertising, Yahoo advertising etc. Yes, it will cost you money but nobody displays advertisments for free these days.

Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69076 26/01/04 05:00 AM
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I noticed you mentioned Outwar in your post. I only speed-read the replies so if there is detail I am repeating then this is why.

I do however also remember you telling doodman to keep an "open mind". Well, open mind and Outwar don't really go hand in hand, sorry to say. Outwar webpages are designed to be advertised in order to get more hits than the next Outwar account holder. However, Outwar also have a strict advertising policy which I think you should take note of. How do you do this? Click the link at the top-right of your Outwar web page relating to advertising abuse and read the message that appears. Whether Outwar does this as a genuine effort to curb advertising or as a way of covering their arses is another matter though I do know for a fact that they instantly delete accounts where evidence of owner advertising has been produced.

As a general rule, advertising or promotion of anything on IRC is pretty annoying. People visit IRC to communicate with their friends and associates. They don't expect you or anyone else to perform the JOIN -> "Hey visit this Outwar site it's very kewl" -> PART ritual and interrupt the conversation. Do this on most networks and you can expect to be banned fairly quickly, aside from the complaint to Outwar management and maybe also your ISP.

If all this bothers you then you should hire some billboard space to have your URL on.

Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69077 26/01/04 05:08 AM
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I didn't even see a spam issue come up until d00dman assumed that provoko was going to spam. Apparently, he was corrected by provoko.

He wasn't corrected. It was quite the opposite. Provoko's cheeky mannerisms and specifically mentioning Outwar which most know to be a well-known domain that is constantly advertised proves this. I have even seen scripts available which opens a socket to the Outwar abuse site and sends the complaint with log attachment automatically. Would people go to this effort for any other reason? I think not.

Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69078 26/01/04 08:24 PM
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I used the term "spam" interchangeably with "promote". I thought my follow-up post cleared that up.

When I spoke of getting banned, I was referring to the IRC servers and his idea with spam bots. I didn't even speak of the forum in my second response.

I'd like to think that over the years on IRC and moderating on these forums, I've gained some experience that might have lead to a bit of wisdom when it comes to people asking innocent-looking questions. provoko asked where he could promote something and happened to mention outwar. He also asked for the "top 5" networks (which I assume means "most popular" or "largest userbase"), as well as how to create links to pop up browsers on other users computers. Doesn't seem perfectly innocent anymore, but that's a subjective call and I don't plan on persuading anyone.

I'm sorry that you've gotten so upset over this whole thing. If I misinterpreted provoko's question, then I might owe him an apology, but I've yet to see evidence contrary to what I had first understood. It was, after all, you that turned this into an argument and then attempted to justify what seems to be a bit of a inferiority complex.

I'll likely be closing this thread soon, since it is of absolutely zero value.

-chris

Re: Where on irc/mirc can I promote? #69079 28/01/04 12:34 AM
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Amadeus Offline
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Greetings People,


Lool Johnsie i am very amazed with your posts, ive been sitting 2 hours and reading everything you posted.
This program is very cool (i mean Chat) but do you people have to argue with each other because of this silly post? He Just Asked something , you all (moderators) shoud just answer

NO YOU CANT PROMOTE ANYWHERE....

well im really amazed, sorry for my bad english, but i had to say SOMETHING...
Dont make a war from a joke!


Love is pain
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