mIRC Home    About    Download    Register    News    Help

Print Thread
The End Is Nigh! #66089 31/12/03 03:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
C
CloCkWeRX Offline OP
Fjord artisan
OP Offline
Fjord artisan
C
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
http://www.internetnews.com/stats/article.php/3292301

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with this article, as I know of many servers who have lost key clientelle by simply being too... lame? rigid? a little of both?

Since there is little doubt that IRC is stubmling, what do you think we can do to change it? Nothing?
We've had larger network problems (like a certain person on Austnet), Dalnet flipped around like a fish on the beach, smaller networks are dying off and now that not many servers still condone filesharing...
On top of that we have stupid IM clients (MSN is a bloated, slow, ugly protocol imho) which are sadly all too popular.

Where does IRC go now? Are there key services worth developing to tackle the inadequacy apparent? IE proper memoserv that bounces out to your email address or something quirky like austnet's loveop.

Ideas, thoughts, comments people?

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66090 31/12/03 09:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,024
M
Mentality Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
M
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,024
Since DALnet, I have always believed that chatting on IRC will eventually stop if the stupid kiddies don't just STOP it. But they won't. They won't, and no, there is nothing you can do about it.

IRC is also complicated. I've shown a few friends it, and they just get so confused with all the information they have to take in - IdentD? Ports? Hostnames? Channels? Ops? Voice? mIRC? IRC? Network? Server? Client? A look of confusion glazes over their eyes every time the words are mentioned. However, IM clients such as AIM and MSN Messenger are simple and promoted by things that the general Internet community will come across everyday. MSN is Microsoft, AIM is AOL...two HUGE companies, two of the biggest in the entire world. Where do you see IRC mentioned? Microsoft don't go around saying, "The engine of MSN Messenger was made possible by a protocol known as IRC created in 1988 by Jarkko...." etc etc. And how many people in the mainstream public read "internetnews.com".

Not condoning file sharing is a good thing, and TBH I see little point in IRC continuing anyway if it IS condoned just to make it look big. I mean, the whole point to IRC is that people chat using it..otherwise mIRC and other clients just become another file sharing program that could not possibly compete against the millions who use Kazaa or iMesh, and would eventually dissipate until a mere 10,000 or so used it.

To be honest though, I think it's near impossibly to "research" into this. Statistics related to IRC popularity are impossible to be exact on, and they didn't interview the entire world. I mean, ok, DALnet lost a helluva lot of it's userbase - but QuakeNet has grown in leaps and bounds, reaching 216,000 clients. I have noticed GamesNET is now growing on netsplit.de's charts and is often the 5th largest, whereas antecedently it was always 7th or sometimes 6th.

These two networks are infact an example of how IRC can be turned around...because they have been setup for another community. The gaming community. People go around, find a really good online game they're going to enjoy, want to do more to be a part of it...and hey, their home channel is on QuakeNet? using IRC? Well, let's give it a shot!
And so another user is added to the database and the statistics.

So I guess the only way chatting on IRC is going to survive and keep going strong is by having networks that are going to interest other larger Internet communities. Basically, to assimilate other areas that interest people. Question is, what communities are there that would be willing to face the vastness of IRC?

As for improving Services? I don't think it matters. The decline is based upon people not connecting to the networks, so I guess they don't even know about things such as LoveOp or MemoServ. And I don't think making MemoServ, which is supported by about TWO large IRC networks (and they aren't even THAT big in relation to Undernet, EFnet etc), bounce memos to emails, is going to even slightly change the face of IRC. As for LoveOp...I don't even know what that is. I remember when I first started IRC and the first script I used supported LoveOp commands and it confused me, and that's another reason I decided to choose DALnet because the Services were easier to understand. To this day I have not endeavoured to inform myself as to the purpose or meaning of LoveOp!

As for my own personal self...I have no plans of leaving IRC, no plans of even "laying off a bit". "Plans" is the key word of course, we cannot control our real lives and how they are going to turn out and every now and again I have to see someone I know on IRC leave IRC due to real life circumstances.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents (written 10 minutes after I woke up, so I might think of more later!)

Regards,


Mentality/Chris
Re: The End Is Nigh! #66091 31/12/03 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 428
P
PastMaster Offline
Fjord artisan
Offline
Fjord artisan
P
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 428
Once again I find myself agreeing with one of Mentality's lucid posts, and that just leaves one question really: how can you THINK that straight in the mornings??? wink

PM



IRCnet & DALnet @#travelersinn
:-: IRC for fun and relaxation :-:
Re: The End Is Nigh! #66092 31/12/03 03:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
S
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
There've been stories of IRC and/or internet chat in general dying from one place or another pretty much every month for the last 5 years. And every time they've been completely wrong. I'll believe it when I see it and not a moment before.

Anyway, the findings that report are based on are of typically around 2,500 American users aged 18 and above between 2000 and 2003.

2,500 is a fair sample audience I guess, but the other two points completely destroy any and all relevance such findings have relating to the fate of IRC. As the other report (that holds the stats that are used in the report you linked to) says, the growth of adult internet users in America has increased by 46% in the time over which the surveys were taken, so the fact that chat room use has apparently increased by 21% in that time isn't all that shocking really. Hardly a 'plateau' for internet chat. If you were to take other countries into consideration who perhaps are far more likely to have seen accessibility to the internet and therefore internet users greatly increase between 2000 and 2003 then I'm sure it would paint a much more accurate and healthy picture of the state of IRC and general internet chat.

Excluding those under 18 has removed a vital demographic that would almost certainly have changed the stats for chat and instant messaging beyond recognition. In the report it says:
Quote:
the size of the online U.S. adult population [is] at 63% of all those 18 and over. More than three-quarters of those between the ages of 12 and 17 use the Internet.

So three quarters of under-18's in America use the internet but their online usage isn't factored in. Doesn't that strike you as a major oversight?

Anyway, as always a misleading report picks and chooses which figures to use to make an 'interesting' article without reference to the shortcomings or pointing out the localisation of the survey to a small peice of America.


Quote:
Since there is little doubt that IRC is stubmling

I have doubt. Lots of it. Explain (with figures please) why I should have little doubt that IRC is 'stumbling'.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: The End Is Nigh! #66093 01/01/04 10:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
There is only one reason that IRC is waning and that is because people have tried it, used it, then moved on to another hobby. IRC has been around for a long time. It will, for a long time to come attract new and curious visitors. Both you and myself have used it for a long time. 5 years or more is a long time to regularly spend typing messages to others when you or I could be doing other things and perhaps enjoying it more.

THe debate about whether IRC is expanding or contracting will go on, though I, like you, believe that IRC is in an overall state of decline. As more networks show some leadership towards filetrading of illegal software it will decline further, and perhaps return to it's original primary purpose, that being a means of interpersonal communication.

Is IRC lame? I don't think so, but there are people that do. It's just a personal opinion and can never be associated with any facts. It's no different to motor racing, cricket or playing snooker. Some argue that stock car racing sucks because the act of driving around in a circle for two hours lends belief that the activity has few challenges, yet others think that 40 cars being involved in one accident at 250km/h is great. What about the cricket. Steve Waugh (the greatest and most respected captain since Sir Donald Bradman, and some say of all time) is retiring. Some people are heart-broken about it and will blubber themselves into a stuper for the whole five days of play at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Others will say "who the hell wants to see another overpaid sportsman swing 1.2kg's of English Willow over 5 days while eating cucumber sandwiches and sipping on overpriced champagne?" Then there's snooker which is a gentleman's version of pub pool and there's two sides to which of the two is better as well.

Is IRC over-regulated? Some say it is and they may have compelling evidence but at the end of the day who cares? IRC is a free service (in most cases) and at the end of the day you are connecting to someone else's computer and therefore are subject to their right to run that machine their way. It's no different to someone walking into your front garden. You'd want them to walk along the footpath instead of over all the new rose bushes you just planted. In other words you would want visitors to respect your way of doing things while they are on your land. The same principle applies to computers, public transport and the supermarket too.

I don't think integration between MemoServ and e-mail is going to inprove things for IRC. Infact what you are suggesting just gives people more reason not to log in. Outlook is far easier to use than mIRC in that someone inclined not to use IRC except as a way of shifting/receiving messages is already going to be using Outlook or webmail anyway. They will just say "Great! I can get memos via email so I can erase mIRC and just use Outlook."

There are three things that have caused great damage to IRC over time.

1. There are too many arseholes that have access to computers these days. The era of cheap hardware and user-friendly software means that anyone can use a computer, regardless of your OS preference. This means that all types of people are going to be computer users. You get fools on the roads because drivers licences are virtually given out by governments. Computer usage is even less regulated so the situation is, naturally, worse. Unless one are ordered by a magistrate to refrain from connecting to the 'Net there is nothing that can really stop them.

2. There is no real way of effectively policing computer related crimes. Wares, porn and bulk un-solicited e-mail is the work of the devil, yet it is something we all have to tolerate for the time-being. All these things are offences, and in some cases serious criminal offences, yet because of a lack of evidence and inability to trace these things, it's not going to go away quickly.

3. The computer industry (generally speaking, and in saying this I am not trying to offend anyone) is the most narcisisstic profession in existance. Some (maybe most) see a career in computer construction, software development, web development, etc as rewarding and satisfying, and most importantly it does give people their daily bread. However there is this lingering "I am elite" and other terms of self admiration that give the industry a black X. I am not one to tar people with the same brush but I do feel that the last statement has some relevance here. I have been working in the building and engineering industry for 15 years and I have never once heard anyone say "I am an elite electrician, plumber, gyprocker, painter, draughtsman, inspector", etc etc etc. As I said, what I highlighted certainly doesn't apply to all computer related workers but the stereotype is a pretty strong one none-the-less. Where does this relate to IRC? Good question. It's the good old copycat syndrome and bored kiddies who are either wagging school or have left school and cant be bothered finding work are sitting on their khybers playing with computers and telling the world that they are l337. If that isn't bad enough we get them trying to prove it and what better way of doing that than causing disruptions to IRC services. This is pretty waring because the attempts are usually short-lived and do little more than to demonstrate that, as I said before, there are fools using computers and access to computers is too easy. When chatrooms are disrupted the chatters get quite upset about it and I cannot say I blame them. They are just there minding their own business and have their time spoilt by idiots with nothing better to do than to prove that age-old annoyances are easy to achieve. Consequently, there is little value in using an IRC service.

That concludes my response. Now... I was down your way the other day on a visit to Adelaide and other parts of SA and found that after eating several hamburgers from various places that none of them had any onion. Any particular reason why? crazy

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66094 03/01/04 05:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
C
CloCkWeRX Offline OP
Fjord artisan
OP Offline
Fjord artisan
C
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
The suggested 'services' were just examples. I *Strongly* feel that if IRC were more closely tied to other protocols (particularly HTTP) we'd see some kind of renewed interest.

People nowdays seems to like the idea of an integrated brower + email client (mozilla or opera or many many others), and if IRC clients/servers started to branch out a little I FEEL that we'd see a bit of renewed interest.

As for "isn't dying", the survey only made me sit abck and take stock of things. 4-5 years ago, before IM's really existed at all, I remember setting all of my friends on to mirc and teaching them the ins and outs of it.
For a while everyone loved it, and could use it. Then, about 6 months ago I started going "do you go on IRC" to people I knew...
The responses were more or less "what's IRC?"
Of course it's been dying for the last 5 years, just doing it slowly.

Watchdog + Myself chat(ted) on the Telstra bigpond server. They made a few poor choices (and they were nazi's about all sorts of stupid things), had a tightly controlled server and so on so forth.
One day they cut off mirc users from the larger youth channels, and the ratings dropped. They've never returned really. Where I used to be able to talk to upwards of 80 different strangers every minute, now I'm stuck with 7 boring people who type "I'm bored" every few minutes.


No onion hey? Maybe its a conspiracy... Say, did you walk down Rundle Mall? 'cause if you did, then you probably walked within 50m of my house.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66095 03/01/04 07:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Nope, I can't say I did go there.

As for what else you said, maybe there is some credence to your view the +j on #Teens. I wasn't for or against, I just went with the flow and in any case, it's ancient history and I'd almost forgotten it ever existed. Still, what commercial organisations see as new ideas is usually something that the general populus disagrees with. I doubt this in itself is responsible for any exodus of users as there was a channel made specifically for mIRC users and +j was only ever experimented with in two rooms, one of which held it's ground.

Disgressing for a second, don't forget that NineMSN went from IRC to Webchat and kept most of it's userbase.

Back to the subject at hand, remember that the only well-known network that has made a significant growth spurt in the last two years is Quakenet and they largely did it on the back on the fact that Dalnet got hammered into the ground. The other three of the Big 4: Efnet, IRCnet and Undernet have not grown or declined in that time and hover around the 100,000 user mark as they did a long time ago.

In my view I have to say that I am surprised that Bigpond still run IRC. If you had any idea of what they spend on it then you probably would too. I'd tell you only that I am not allowed to though I can say that it's certainly more than a schoolkid's playlunch money.

At the end of the day you can't assume that the policies of any one network is at fault for a decline in the overall popularity of IRC. All networks, from where I stand, have a failry uniform set of rules and expectations. Rules like advertising, abuse and war games are usually mentioned first. I don't speak for ANY network when I state that I understand why those rules are in place. If I was a network owner I would expect much the same sort of thing.

The other thing is that it is not generally accepted in the eyes of many that big is best. Quakenet for instance has the most disgraceful and lacking Services, if you could call them that and they are the largest network by almost 2:1 as far as the number of users is concerned. Efnet, overly conservative and extremely disorganised, has no Services at all and beats it's chest over some stupid function that allows people to regain ops in their rooms, subject to the person making the attempt meets certain guidlines. If they'd just find some Services compatible with their IRCd and kick it in the guts then they wouldn't require all this stuffing around and there wouldn't be so many channel takeovers there.

What has to be appreciated by all is the cost of providing IRC to us. ISPs devote a fortune to it every year and it goes largely unappreciated. It is a free service and chews up bandwidth and at the end of the day, IRC is probably the most abused service on the Internet. A day doesn't go by without most networks being hammered with DDoS attacks. Combine that with endless griping about rules and you soon get the idea that there is not much incentive for ISPs to continue providing IRC or funding the chance for others to provide it on their behalf.

One thing I am yet to see is any network owner complain about a decline of users.

One safe bet though is ignoring Starbucks Mafia who seems to think that Internet = IRC when he quotes all those meaningless figures which have about the same influence and standing as a political opinion poll on "Who is the better Prime Minister?" I would say that most Internet users don't even know what the hell IRC is.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66096 03/01/04 06:12 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Quote:
I would say that most Internet users don't even know what the hell IRC is.

Apparently, according to Neilsen/NetRatings, mIRC is one of the most well known internet brand names. Pretty impressive, I'd say.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66097 03/01/04 10:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
The same site states that the total number of Internet users will reach somewhere around the 700 million mark this year.

Quote from a page referring to IRC, specifically an overall decline in the use of IRC:

While chat room attendance has slowed, other forms of online communication are used more frequently.

If that is true then I think it is safe to assume that what I said is correct. IRC usage simply does not equate to the use of IRC, or even the use of messengers, strangly enough.

I'm not trying to be a doomsayer, as I don't want IRC to decline but it has to be recognised that the dominant software/content providers like Micro$oft and AO-Hell are clearly giving IRC a beating. Sun hasn't helped either with their case against Micro$oft which has seen the end of Java being supplied with Windows. This now means that webchat users who don't use Micro$oft's ActiveX chatrooms now have to either be aware of the fact that Java can be obtained from Sun (few even know or care about Sun) or they need to obtain programmes like mIRC and work through another learning curve.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66098 03/01/04 11:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
S
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
In an earlier post you were saying IRC usage was declining because any idiot could use a computer and get online, but now you're complaining that people need to figure out how to use a simple program or have to know of the existence/whereabouts of Sun's JVM. Surely 'problem' #2 resolves 'problem' #1? People too lazy to do one of two simple things won't be missed. Indeed if anything this gives IRC something of a last line of defence from being completely and utterly riddled with filesharers - they're too stupid or lazy to work out how to use IRC properly. Which suits me just fine.

Quote:
IRC usage simply does not equate to the use of IRC, or even the use of messengers, strangly enough.

I must've missed that English lesson back at school, where exactly is the difference between 'IRC usage' and 'use of IRC'?


IRC can't really ever die. The protocol has been documented and people will always use it. There will always be a desire to use it because there will always be a desire by people to communicate via text. No matter how much some people like the idea of video chat, voice chat, etc. there will always be others who prefer to simply use text - myself included. As with any kind of group communication like IRC's channel concept there will almost always be a need to give some people control over those chats and so IRC will be a logical choice for anyone looking to create a text-chat server. Whether large IRC networks live or die is irrelevant, there will always be IRC servers available to those willing to look for them.

Of course whether you agree with me there or not doesn't really matter, I've not seen any evidence to suport the idea that the large IRC networks are losing users. If anything there seems to be many more now then at any time before.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: The End Is Nigh! #66099 05/01/04 02:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Well you obviously don't know English all that well or you would hav understood the context of the sentence. The first mention of "IRC" in your quoted sentence was meant to be "Internet", my apologies to your highness for such a disastrous error.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66100 05/01/04 06:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
C
CloCkWeRX Offline OP
Fjord artisan
OP Offline
Fjord artisan
C
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
Telstra stuff first: I agree - i can imagine how much it'd cost them, and I understand the reasoning behind cutting of people to force them to view advertising - this just unfortunately decimated the userbase from my perspective and, well, i'm sick of talking to shalldog. smile

IRC can die, just the same way as the BETA video format - it's documented, and somewhere someone is probably playing around with it as a novelty, but for all intents and purposes, its dead.

english language smile
Go find out what 'fulsome praise' actually means smile you'll need an unabridged dictionary.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66101 05/01/04 11:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16
ytytyt Offline
Pikka bird
Offline
Pikka bird
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16
I think the net in general has moved from computing to entertainment, w/ it's easy access and mere fields.
When the average new user gets a computer,
they don't move as rapidly outside their ISP disks.
Hence also the decline in iRC.


"ytytyt = a lamers' version of asdf"
Re: The End Is Nigh! #66102 05/01/04 07:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
S
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
It's amazing how some people can get so riled over a simple comment. Clearly I didn't realise you meant 'internet' or I wouldn't have brought it up, would I? Looking at it now you've said that it does seem relatively obvious, but it's amazing the things that don't occur to you at the time. In any case there's no need to get worked up because I inadvertantly pointed out a typing error with what I thought was a legitimate question.

With regards to me mentioning the death of IRC that was a reply to the general thread rather than any specific comment you made.

CloCkWeRX:
IRC and Betamax are hardly the same. For someone to bring back Betamax would require paying tens -probably hundreds- of thousands of pounds to manufacture new VCR's to play the format, not to mention convincing television/film companies that it's worth their while to release their content on Betamax tapes. However, to bring back IRC if it ever disappeared it would only require access to the protocol specs and later documentation of common additions/changes to the protocol or even just access to source code of other IRC daemons/clients - all of which is available on the net for free.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: The End Is Nigh! #66103 05/01/04 10:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
i'm sick of talking to shalldog

HAHAHAHAHA, Good call. Careful though or you'll have him coming here...

Here's a secret to avoid being cut off, use the Victorian server. :tongue:

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66104 05/01/04 10:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
It's amazing how some people can get so riled over a simple comment.

Well if it came from a literary genius I would have been more gracious about it.

As for Betamax VCRs, yes it would cost a hell of alot to reintroduce it. But think back to why Beta died...

Betamax was technically superior, to and was introduced before, VHS but in the time-honoured Japanese way of marketing things, JVC nailed Sony by flooding the market with VHS machines and ran at a loss for years to make sure VHS overtook Beta. JVC also managed to pick up some more licencees than Sony did, which added weight to their push for dominance.

The same (more or less) is happening here. IRC has been around for around 15 years or so and messengers are comparitivly newer. Online content providers like MSN are spending money on software development and the huge expense of running servers for the millions of messenger users to log into. How they justify such an extravaganza from a business point of view is another matter.

Quite clearly though, messenger providers are spending alot of money on hammering IRC for all it's worth and for the time being and for what ever reason, they are succeeding.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66105 05/01/04 11:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
S
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
S
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,962
Since when did instant messengers become 'competition' for IRC? As far as I can see they fulfill two different (albeit similar) roles; IM's create a quick way to talk to friends and family and other acquaintances and typically results in 'light' conversation, whereas IRC caters more for group discussion and communities, while providing for one-to-one communication also - and although the conversation on IRC differs because of the vast amount of varying channels within many different networks it is certainly well suited to 'heavier' discussion which would not work well across an IM.

Surely Microsoft's recent closure of it's chatrooms, which were by far the closest thing they had to IRC, shows that any attempt there may have been at displacing IRC has been considered a failure (by them at least) and they've decided to cut their losses by dropping the service. I'd say that the only way in which Microsoft, AOL, etc. are hurting IRC usage is not in terms of 'turning' potential regular IRC users onto IMs but by painting IRC as a dangerous nest of paedophiles and wackjobs run by irresponsible people instead of being clean fuzzy places run by *respectable* companies such as themselves which probably leads parents to prevent their younger children from using IRC. Whether I'd consider the loss of younger children from IRC a bad thing is debatable, but just the same it could be responsible for the so-called plateau in user-gain that the original survey Clockwerx posted spoke of.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: The End Is Nigh! #66106 06/01/04 09:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,985
Since when did instant messengers become 'competition' for IRC?

Since the day the first messenger programme was released was probably the day competition between the two protocols began. Just incase you didn't realise, at least one messenger service that I know of (ICQ) and then possibly the other three allow you to create chatrooms where you can allow those you want in and everyone else remains out. And if it doesn't these days it certainly used to because I had it on my machine until the tales went around about how insecure it was. Messenger services are also only offered by what could be regarded as some of the world's major online communities.

Still think there is no competition between IRC and messengers?

Well the thing is, word has already been mentioned in several places, not just the sites that have been quoted in this thread about how some in the younger generation get on IRC to behave like ratbags and generally spoil IRC time for others. You make mention of selectivity on messengers and this is one of its most important features. IE: If you don't want to communicate with a particular person then you can stop it happening. If you are on an unhosted IRC channel and it just happens to be where your mates chat though also where a few morons chat then while you can silence them, you still can't get their names of the screen. I know this aspect is trivial but visual reminders of morons does get to some people.

Still not convinced?

Well you raised the subject of Micro$oft's referral to paedophiles on IRC. Microsoft's biggest problem is that their service, from day one was so poorly staffed that they didn't have a ghost of a chance to get on top of the problem. I have k:lined and reported a few rock spiders on the network I use. The issue no-where near as bad as Micro$honk says and that is a fact, though it does exist. The difference is that while Micro$oft left their networks run to rack and ruin, we, and certainly other networks do not. Result: The well staffed networks survive and Micro$oft didn't and they had two attempts to get it right and failed both times. Micro$oft used the paedophile yarn to get more peeps off IRC and onto messengers, particularly their own and whoever cannot see that is blind. The proof is in the fact that they all but demanded other networks to follow their 'lead' and close.

Well I say that Micro$oft is wrong and they are putting the fear of God into people about IRC only for some kind of commercial gain. For whatever reason it seems to be working regardless of at what speed.

It is still faltering to messengers though.

Re: The End Is Nigh! #66107 08/01/04 03:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
C
CloCkWeRX Offline OP
Fjord artisan
OP Offline
Fjord artisan
C
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 309
riled? hardly - i think this sort of thing happens too mcuh becasue we are all adapted to guessing the intent behind the words of people we chat to.

There's something about a forum rant which makes me think 'he's angry' when i look at a lot of posts (specially the betamax ones) - does this have something to do with the problem?

Most people who are new to IRC are stupid, and crass, and can't read the emotion-behind-the-words very well at all. Subsequently, they annoy me personally - ie If I talk to someone and sit on their lap and proclaim I am a 1ft high centipede like creature (Mesklinite), then I get abuse or swearing or confusion.
The veterans chuckle as they can tell its an odd kind of thing and an amusement to us all.
Is this segregation that happens (take any teen room - the regulars will quite gladly do their own thing and the noobs will come and upset the balance) part of the problem with IRC?
Kids so used to speaking in SMS with such bad language skills no one wants to talk to them, and they fall back on their IM network of peers who suffer the exact same problems...
Since they already know em, chances are, their problems are shared:
"me brd"
"me brd 2"
"c u at skewl?"


Thoughts?