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#53401 - 11/10/03 04:42 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 2809
Quote:
The Bug Report forum lists down many many bugs, you can't expect Khaled to read them all. He did fix some of the bugs in the Compiled thread though, give Khaled time.

Let us not forget that in the process of fixing those bugs he introduced approximately 5 new bugs.

Quote:
I am sure, you will get used to the new toolbar icons in time. I have gotten used to it.

I doubt it, if I ever do upgrade from 6.03 (which is doubtful) it will only be after I complete the dll I'm writing that will remove all the little 6.1 "fixes." I've already gotten the menus back to the way I want them, next step is to change the toolbar.

Quote:
Grayed text is Gray text because grayed isn't even proper spelling.

Well "grayed" is a word, if something is "grayed out" it means it has been made gray. Therefore "grayed text" is text that has been made gray. I.e. it is different than just "gray text." Gray text is the color you get ctrl+k+14, that's gray text, "grayed text" is text that has been made gray due to being disabled. In any case, this is where backwards compatibility comes in. When $paraN was removed, it wasn't like "*poof* $paraN gone $N appeared." $paraN first became deprecated in versions.txt and people were told to use $N instead. Then, several versions later, $paraN was gone. Why couldn't the same happen here? "grayed text" still works, but it is deprecated, then, say in 6.2 it is completely removed.

Quote:
You said that you are too busy to write a client, have you ever thought of Khaled? He has a life too. He probably goes out like anyone does. Working on mIRC is just his hobby, at the same time making money.

Well according to Khaled, it is NOT just a hobby. He specifically states in his FAQ, "mIRC is the way I make a living." Just as I don't feel "sympathy" for Bill Gates, nor towards the guy who packs my bags at the grocery store for not having free time, I don't feel bad for Khaled. He's a businessman, and he's in the business world, if you can't keep up, then you aren't successful, it's as simple as that as far as I'm concerned.

Btw, if I felt I were able to make the money I assume he makes from mIRC (basing this on the numerous pictures he has from all his travels all over the world) I'd find the time to make an IRC client.

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#53402 - 11/10/03 05:19 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
Raccoon Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 18/02/03
Posts: 2586
  • <DekuHaze> Rather than find another client, how about writing your own? I'd be happy to beta test it if you released it on Linux as well as Windoze.

    <codemastr> Because I don't have much free time or else I would.

    <Raccoon> If you wouldn't spend 12 hours a day bitching on these message boards and maintaining your #1 posting status... your IRC client could already be done and out of beta and you'd be teaching all of us a lesson. crazy
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Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!

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#53403 - 11/10/03 05:26 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 2809
Quote:
<Raccoon> If you wouldn't spend 12 hours a day bitching on these message boards and maintaining your #1 posting status... your IRC client could already be done and out of beta and you'd be teaching all of us a lesson.


Well dispite what people think, that I'm sitting at my PC 24/7 just monitoring these message boards, that's not true. When I post during the day, I'm usually at school. That means either I have maybe 5 mins in between classes, or in the case of boring classes, I wind up on here and chatting during the class. Overall, during the week, I'm probably online maybe at most 3-4 hours a day, and maybe 1-2 hours of that is doing homework. Then, when I do get some free time, I have other projects. I work on UnrealIRCd whenever I get the chance, then I have my new project SolarStats that's been eating up a decent amount of my time. And more recently, I've been trying to submit some patches to the java IRC client called PJIRC (mainly to try and enhance my Java skills). Then even more recently I've been contributing to a project called cURL and a related project of expanding the MIT ares library. Then, in my spare time I try to come up with suggestions/bugs/fixes for a regexp library called TRE. When you take all that, add in the fact that I (try to) have a social life, it doesn't leave me with much free time at all.

Believe me, I'd love to write an IRC client, I think it would be a fantastic learning experience, it's just well... that's not gonna put the food on the table, and therefore that means it has to be low on my list of priorities.

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#53404 - 11/10/03 05:51 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
Raccoon Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 18/02/03
Posts: 2586
It put food on Khaled's table.

And yes, contrary to your oh-so busy life, you spend 12 hours of it on these forums daily.
If you would like I'll plot a graph of your posting activity showing just how evenly spread you are across all forums and all hours of the day and night. Then we'll amplify that graph by 200% since you claim the moderators delete half of your posts.

You average 15-25 posts a day, and have 37 today alone.

That translates to at LEAST a 100-500 lines of code per day.

- Raccoon
_________________________
Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!

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#53405 - 11/10/03 06:25 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
trenzterra Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 196
OK, fine, if it is not just a hobby. But he does have a life.

Anyway, I've never seen gray text before, when is it used?

It's inevitable to introduce bugs while fixing other bugs, give Khaled time.
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AustNet #trenzterra and #w
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#53406 - 11/10/03 06:33 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
Raccoon Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 18/02/03
Posts: 2586
Furthermore... (but not to distract from my last post)

You keep bitching that Khaled should put out *immediate* bug fixes addressing security issues... and when he does this, you complain that he didn't address EVERY bug no matter how minor.

Make up your mind.

Did you want Khaled to put out a fast fix for the USERHOST overflow?
Or did you want Khaled to work on the other bugs for another N months before putting out a release?

- Raccoon
_________________________
Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!

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#53407 - 11/10/03 07:18 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
Collective Offline
Planetary brain

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 3138
Loc: London, UK
He is certainly not spread evenly over all hours of the day and night.

I made a graph out of his "show all posts" page (changed the number in the URL from 15 to 2880). The script only came up with 1189 posts..where on earth the rest are I don't know.



First bar is 0600, last 0500. Times are GMT-6 (in theory).

Personally I wouldn't call that "evenly spread".

Edit: While it only got 1189 posts for him, it got the right amount for others I tried it on.

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#53408 - 11/10/03 08:14 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
Raccoon Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 18/02/03
Posts: 2586
So he starts posting at 9am and stops posting at 2am... sure everyone has to sleep sometime. smirk It's still a much wider spread than he claims.

And no, I'm not arguing that 50% of his posts had been deleted (59% actually). I know they were, he knows they were, and everyone knows they were. This isn't because moderators target threads that he starts, but because he targets threads that moderators will inevidably remove... usually weeks later. But that's a different topic all together.

My point is if mr. mastr is so stretched thin with his busy life, how/ why does he still post here?

- Raccoon

PS. Could you do one of those for me? laugh
_________________________
Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!

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#53409 - 11/10/03 10:10 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
Poppy Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 843
Loc: UK
Well I'd just like to say thanks to Khaled and Krejt for getting the new bugfix version out at all. With all the negative crap following the last release I'm surprised they didn't lose the will altogether. As far as I'm concerned, this latest bugfix release shows me that they do indeed read the forums and take notice of what's being said. So I for one would like to show a bit of appreciation for all the work that's gone into it. Sure, it's disappointing that when a new release comes out what *you* want fixed/added isn't done, but hell - you can't please all of the people all of the time, and to be honest it's the same people whining about this latest bugfix that whined about v6.1 (i.e 2 people). If you're pushed for time, why don't you join forces and make your own client? Kumbayah...

P.S. This reply wasn't aimed at you, Raccoon, I just *gasp* hit the reply button. laugh


Edited by Poppy (11/10/03 10:12 AM)
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#53410 - 11/10/03 10:16 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
sparta Offline
Planetary brain

Registered: 22/02/03
Posts: 3432
Loc: Sweden/Borlänge
in 6.1 yeah
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#53411 - 11/10/03 02:50 PM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
saxon Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 28/04/03
Posts: 210
Quote:
It put food on Khaled's table.


Well, when Khaled started programming his IRC client, There wasn't this thing called 'mIRC' dominating the windows IRC world...

It's very hard for anyone to make any money out of an IRC client these days...

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#53412 - 11/10/03 04:47 PM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 2809
Quote:
You keep bitching that Khaled should put out *immediate* bug fixes addressing security issues... and when he does this, you complain that he didn't address EVERY bug no matter how minor.


First off "I keep bitching that" I've been on these forums for about 2 years now and ONE TIME I've said that Khaled should post security fixes faster. As you're so proud of pointing out, I have about 3000 posts, and ONE that says he should post security releases. Wow! 0.0003% of my posts are about this issue, yup it definately seems like that is the single most common thing I talk about here.

Then, (dictionary.com:immediate) "Occurring at once; instant: gave me an immediate response. "
Do you see any mention of "bug report, delete claims of bug, wait 2 weeks, then release fix"? That's not how I read that definition. I read it as, "someone posts bug report, Khaled posts reply within an hour saying 'yes it exists, I'll have the fix by the end of the day'"

Quote:
Make up your mind.

Get your facts straight!

Quote:
Did you want Khaled to put out a fast fix for the USERHOST overflow?

When MS finds a security hole in Windows do they say "Ok guess that means we have to release Win2004 today." NO, they say "time to release a patch." Why couldn't he have done like 99% of software manufacturers and released a little patch that would have fixed that one problem? I don't see how fixing a single bug implies a new version must be released. And Khaled must not either since he's released a patch for mIRC before to fix a single bug (versions.txt):
13/09/95 - released mIRC v3.64 patch

1.Fixes the *1-3 type bug.

Again, get your damn facts straight before you start yelling at me.

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#53413 - 12/10/03 01:57 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
trenzterra Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 196
I agree, patches could be good.
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trenzterra
AustNet #trenzterra and #w
Head Scripter @ http://trenzterra.uni.cc

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#53414 - 12/10/03 05:21 AM Re: 6.11 worse than 6.1?
CloCkWeRX Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 18/02/03
Posts: 309
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
*sits down*

codemaster, you know your cute when your mad?

visual styles: I'm not altogether sure, but when Khaled stopped using Borland compilable C++ and swtiched to his current compiler, wouldn't that have possibly added alot of XP related GUI code, which was 'improved' by microsoft? In otherwords the gui wouldn't look exactly the same? Hell i'm jsut taking a stab in the dark, having very little win32GUI programming knowledge.

Patches: I'd like to see a patch style system, but perhaps that would need to be a X number of bugfixes per patch - windows update hassles me for 50 new downloads every day it seems, giving me the impression that my current product(s) are broken as all hell... oh wait... windows... right.. nevermind...

codemaster: I think that your like me, having too much free time to spend on forums - 'i'll just check my email' which took me two hours one day frown

As for the missing of bugs in testing I think its understandable if I remember an faq entry correctly - about elements of mirc (ie scripting) being developed organically.
While I'm sure there's some degree of preplanning there's a limit to what a small team can do and keep track of - I myself have written many a program intending to do things entirely a certain way and woken up the next day, written the next element, and found I've just got two conflicting coding... dialects i suppose...

The rest of the posts: SMUH, I got broed after the first page. Nice graph work. The missing posts, probably all deleted ones :P
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