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*** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49966
18/09/03 07:34 AM
18/09/03 07:34 AM
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mIRC 6.01 and below:
*** Now talking in #blah
*** Topic is 'blah'
*** Blah was kicked by Blah (Blah)
* Me thinks not

mIRC 6.02 and above to 6.1:
* Now talking in #blah
* Topic is 'blah'
* Blah was kicked by Blah (Blah)
* Me thinks not

What is up with that? Why is there still no fix? And there is no way I can fix this back to pre-6.02 besides massive scripting.

Without the *** prefix on actual modes it is impossible to differentiate between an impersonated message from a /me and an actual one in log files. This distinction is causing me serious problems and issues when it comes to verifying log files.

Normal use can be differentiated with color schemes but it is not possible to perform such a distinction with log files. So is this ever going to be fixed? I am very disappointed that 6.1 has not fixed this glaring error or provided a solution to switch between * and *** prefix modes. And this has been going in since 6.02. Months have passed now and I'm still forced to use 6.01 because this severe issue is not fixed.

If an option was provided to fix the massive borders-around-chatbox irritation in mirc 6.01, why is there not with this *** prefix which I find to be way more serious.

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49967
18/09/03 08:48 AM
18/09/03 08:48 AM
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Posts: 2,984
Hill End, NSW, Australia
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What is up with that? Why is there still no fix?

It ain't fixed because it ain't broke. The alteration was made intentionally and I would say permanently unless Khaled decides, finally, to introduce X Chat style event editing.


Induced IRC
irc.induced.net
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49968
18/09/03 10:52 AM
18/09/03 10:52 AM
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I would say it's broken because of the inability to differentiate between a 'real event' and one faked with a /me. It worked fine all along until being 'broken' in versions 6.02+. And fixing all this back to *** through scripting is no joke; every single event with * has to be changed back to *** with the script except for the /me.

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49969
18/09/03 12:38 PM
18/09/03 12:38 PM
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MonoSex Offline
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Why not just script a different /me output?

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49970
18/09/03 02:59 PM
18/09/03 02:59 PM
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yep I have tried the following:

[00:00] * Me says test (Action)

[00:00] *** Me says test

[00:00] ** Me says test

[00:00] [A] Me says test

But.. I just couldn't accept them and went back to 6.01. Now with 6.1 out and still no fix it looks like I have to go script every single event back to the *** prefix. Not a nice option but I don't really have a choice if I want to keep up with the mIRC versions.

Unless.. mIRC 6.11 implements a choice where you can choose between *** and * as the event prefix, just like it was pre-6.02. That would save alot of work. And I also try to avoid scripting up events unless necessary as the script processing takes up some CPU time. I have noticed this to be quite obvious when alot of text is being parsed.

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49971
18/09/03 03:24 PM
18/09/03 03:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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Hill End, NSW, Australia
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If you are determined to say that it's broken then you don't understand what the word means. *** was INTENTIONALLY changed to *. This is not a bug and it's not broken, regardless of whether you happen to like * or ***. It's all a matter of personal taste and as Monosex said it's easy to script over and the scripting for it is small, not big.


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irc.induced.net
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49972
18/09/03 03:27 PM
18/09/03 03:27 PM
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on ^*:ACTION:*:#:{
echo $chan $+(,$color(action),***) $+($nick,:) $1-
haltdef
}
:tongue:


new username: tidy_trax
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49973
18/09/03 04:14 PM
18/09/03 04:14 PM
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Regardless whether it was intentional or not, I'm still going to have to fix -every- single event back to the normal pre-6.02 ***. It is not a simple task.

That would requires scripting in the following events and more:
on Ban, Deop, Devoice, Invite, Join, Kick, Mode, Nick, Notice, Op, Part, Quit, ServerMode, ServerOp, Topic, UnBan, UserMode, Voice

I have to fix every single one of those events in order to get them all to display the *** prefix. This is the only way I can restore the prefix and I do not find it entertaining coding every single one of them.

on Action should look like this:
* Me says blah

and everything else like this:
*** Event

That's all the work that would be requried to restore the prefix. Perfection never comes cheap but it's not acceptable when the *** prefix was working correctly all along, then abruptly changed in 6.02+ for absolutely no reason relating to functionality. Why change something that was not broken, and working perfectly in the first place?

The inability to tell an actual event (e.g. * Blah sets mode: +m) from a fake one generated by a /me (e.g: /me sets mode: +m)showing on a log file is what I call a problem.

When you read a log file [6.02+]:
* Blah sets mode: +m
* Blah sets mode: +m

6.01 (very accurate distinction between real and fake event):
*** Blah sets mode: +m
* Blah sets mode: +m

How is it possible to differentiate between the actual event and the fake? I was able to do this before 6.02; I am now unable to do so. Therefore this is an issue, and I'm calling it broken.

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49974
18/09/03 04:22 PM
18/09/03 04:22 PM
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Wow, you really should take a pill for that.
Do you really have such a big problem with people doing fake bans that it's got your panties in a twist like this?
There are changes made in every version that doesn't please everyone .. I'm sure there have been changes in the past that you liked but pissed someone else off, and if they had made a post like this, you would have wondered what all the fuss was about. Just script around it. Do you not like scripting? If not then I suggest that you go and get one of the kazillion scripts out there that has a couple or a few features that you need and the rest is bloated with a bunch of crap you don't need.

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49975
18/09/03 04:42 PM
18/09/03 04:42 PM
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Quote:
That would requires scripting in the following events and more:
on Ban, Deop, Devoice, Invite, Join, Kick, Mode, Nick, Notice, Op, Part, Quit, ServerMode, ServerOp, Topic, UnBan, UserMode, Voice

on *:RAWMODE will cover voice,op,servermode,serverop,usermode,ban,unban,help,deop,dehelp,owner,deowner and devoice.


new username: tidy_trax
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49976
18/09/03 06:06 PM
18/09/03 06:06 PM
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Thanks. I will make it a point to get the prefix fixed to pre-6.02 in 6.1 as efficiently as possible tomorrow.

I do like 6.1's network-independent perform list which lets me free up unnecessary scripting to auto-perform for 2 networks.

I don't except alot in software. Just perfection.

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49977
19/09/03 04:35 AM
19/09/03 04:35 AM
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Posts: 2,984
Hill End, NSW, Australia
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I don't understand why people think that they will get falsified events in logs. In just over five years of IRC I have never once come across someone typing a fake mode or kick event and I think that I have seen most of the lame things that can possibly happen on IRC.


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irc.induced.net
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49978
19/09/03 11:39 PM
19/09/03 11:39 PM
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Quote:
It ain't fixed because it ain't broke

So the original way of using *** was broken? Because Khaled decided to "fix" that. Even though users have asked numerous times to have it changed, it still isn't. I really still see no reason whatsoever why there can't be a "prefix string" setting.

Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49979
20/09/03 08:44 PM
20/09/03 08:44 PM
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Brazil
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cold Offline
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Well, your IRC experience is yours only. There are thousands of people in a lot of networks. So, we can't assume common things like event faking, which I've seen a lot before, BTW.


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Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49980
20/09/03 10:09 PM
20/09/03 10:09 PM
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Florida,USA
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_D3m0n_ Offline
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agreed everyones experiance is thier own ... also ive never encountered a reason to go back in the logs and check any mode changes set by ppl. if your not able to trust the ppl with ops in the room then they shouldnt be ops.


D3m0nnet.com
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49981
20/09/03 10:50 PM
20/09/03 10:50 PM
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Brazil
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Actually, the problem shows itself when you're *not* concerned about it.. lets suppose I'm some user who's just checking his logs, then I suddenly find a bizarre mode change.. depending on the context, of course, I get confused.
Another example are "log <-> html" addons and the like, which can be fooled.

About trust in operators, that depends on the channel environment. For example, there are a lot of channels which work giving op to anyone who joins. Whether anyone thinks it's a bad channel administration or not, this is the owner's matter. I'm glad mIRC doesn't dictate any channel administration point of view.


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Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49982
21/09/03 12:57 AM
21/09/03 12:57 AM
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Florida,USA
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_D3m0n_ Offline
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well im using mircstats for channel log interpretation and im not having any tricky modes being passed that would confuse it?


D3m0nnet.com
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49983
21/09/03 02:14 AM
21/09/03 02:14 AM
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Brazil
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cold Offline
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mIRCstats must do a thousand of checks to validate things. And it still could have flaws.

Anyway, regardless of whatever situation anyone brings, I don't see any advantages for this prefix change and I doubt anyone does.


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Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49984
21/09/03 02:52 AM
21/09/03 02:52 AM
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well ive got it pulling stats from a logfile that is currently 11mb and it takes less than 5 seconds to compile its stats create its webpages and then upload them to my site. i really dont see the problem. maybe if your using a free program which doesnt allow for checks like mircstats youd have problems .. but the 15 bucks to register it to fully use all its features in my opinion was well work it ..... and with that program as well it was a onetime registration fee with free upgrades. it also has the ability to configure it to newer versions of mirc or even to your scripting output if u have changed it in your mirc. basically if u dont like the default method your able to change it in your scripting and then change how mircstats looks at it to evaluate it. So really what your complaining about is a minimal thing in my opinion and its easily overcome.


D3m0nnet.com
Re: *** Prefix text mode screwed up since 6.02 #49985
21/09/03 04:06 AM
21/09/03 04:06 AM
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Quote:
well ive got it pulling stats from a logfile that is currently 11mb and it takes less than 5 seconds to compile its stats create its webpages and then upload them to my site. i really dont see the problem. maybe if your using a free program which doesnt allow for checks like mircstats youd have problems .. but the 15 bucks to register it to fully use all its features in my opinion was well work it ..... and with that program as well it was a onetime registration fee with free upgrades. it also has the ability to configure it to newer versions of mirc or even to your scripting output if u have changed it in your mirc.

You didn't get it. I said mIRCstats isn't easily fooled because it does a lot of checking. I didn't criticize it in any way, didn't even mention its speed or anything. The subject is mIRC's prefix change. I won't script a lot of checking, nor use a third-party program and pay for it.. just to read a log file. Not when a better solution like changing the event prefix to something decently unique can exist.


Quote:
basically if u dont like the default method your able to change it in your scripting and then change how mircstats looks at it to evaluate it. So really what your complaining about is a minimal thing in my opinion and its easily overcome.

Yeah, it's clear to everyone that the prefix issue is a minimal thing. But what we're suggesting is quite a minimal thing as well, though it makes much more sense.

Prefixes exist for a reason. There is the event one, there is the action one etc. Having the same token for both is inconsistent and defeats their purpose. You could ask if I'm a colourblind who doesn't realize there are different default colours for both. Well I'm not, but a log file is.

While the issue seems "easily overcome" to some people, to me and other people it's not.
I don't want to use a script that will display actions eating multiple spaces. I don't feel I'm supposed to need to script any ugly workaround for this behaviour either.

Plus, the "script it" solution applies to the ones who know mircscripting and want to use it. There are people who can't be bothered with it and mIRC is dedicated to these people as well as to the ones who script.

Since Khaled has changed the prefix, he could change it back or make it customizable, respecting users like me as well as users who don't script.


Concluding, the best thing for everyone is to have the ability to modify the prefix. Nothing else. And that's our suggestion. No one is going to die if it's not going to be accepted, but there is really no argument that could invalidate its benefits (at least until Khaled appears and shows it).


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