mIRC Home    About    Download    Register    News    Help

Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33400 01/07/03 05:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
E
EmLoDnAoR Offline OP
Ameglian cow
OP Offline
Ameglian cow
E
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
Thinking around, needing ideas...
confused
I've been thinking around for over half an year now, on how to create some AI. However, every time i do i get confused, and i can't really figure out where to start.
So, i need ideas, a lot of them actually.
I've chosen to name it "The Human Brain Project" *uuuuuh*
First of all, the idea started when i thougth, "hey, why not make mIRC record all my conversations, then make a bot that answers in the same way i'm doing" but that's mainly not to intelligent, is it? Firs of all you will have to ask the exact same question to the bot that someone asked me, then again, what if they asked what the weather was like(?).
When you start thinking about this you may understand my confusionness, (If that's a word). Anyhow, i've desided not to realice the imposibillity of it. First of all it have to learn all the grammar, but i want it do be multilangual, so it some time in the future allso to use it as an translator, not only word by word, my with right grammar and stuff.
So i figured, why not try for ten years or so, before giving totally up.

That's about all i have to say at the moment, i need a lot of ideas, so pleace....

Would it not be GREAT to tell mIRC, "hey, i'm late on a eseay i'm supose to write, can you just do it for me?

To the ppl who want to reply with messages as, "this is impossible" plz don't reply at all :P

(Please ignore ANY english misspelled words, even in this line, if any)

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33401 02/07/03 10:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
E
EmLoDnAoR Offline OP
Ameglian cow
OP Offline
Ameglian cow
E
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
over 25 views and no replys, i'm disepointed

(sorry misspelled word(s))

give me what's on your mind, anything, bad ideas to, plz!

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33402 02/07/03 01:33 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 215
lammkott Offline
Fjord artisan
Offline
Fjord artisan
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 215
Two comments...

1) How do you plan on making artificial intelligence when you confuse yourself just thinking about it.

and

2) A Darkbot is the closest thing you'll get to IRC A.I.


- Jason
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33403 02/07/03 02:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
E
EmLoDnAoR Offline OP
Ameglian cow
OP Offline
Ameglian cow
E
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
1. don know... but i'm gona try...
2. what's a darkbot anyway?

maybe AI is the wrong word, the script will be abel to talk and have normal logical conversations... and watch other ppl talk, then get smarter.,,... if you give it enought grammar and dictionary input, it would be able to do an essay...
so i want all types of feedback!

The topic is alsoo beeing discust an mircscripts.org, more responce there...

Here...

(http://mircscripts.org/forums.php?cid=3&id=69706#69706)

i plan to put up an webpage with this topic only...

i'll post here if i do...

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33404 02/07/03 02:08 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,265
P
pheonix Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
P
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,265
there's 1 already like this, but its called mindloop, it doesnt make sense however.

<tidy_trax> hello
<mindloop> hello to [censored] too


new username: tidy_trax
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33405 02/07/03 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 108
H
Hindsight Offline
Vogon poet
Offline
Vogon poet
H
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 108
Actually theres a couple that return based on its name and differnt ques within its written convos. Its tons of fun, but in no way AI. smile Im gonna try my luck later on, making reform where needed. Heh gl2me laugh.

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33406 02/07/03 02:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
C
codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
AI is something that has interested me, so I have done research on it over the years, and based on the fact that you didn't mention any of the "key terms," I really doubt you have the knowledge necessary to do this. I didn't hear you talking about Backus Naur Grammar, Fuzzy logic, Logical heuristics, Parallel algorithm execution, etc. Those are all things you will need to be VERY familiar with if you want to even attempt AI/NLP.

Basically let me put it this way, I don't believe AI/NLP is overall impossible, but I believe it will be impossible for you. There are thousands of the worlds greatest computer scientists, engineers, biologists, and psychologists working hard on this problem, and they have been working on it for about the last 40 years. Based on your post it would seem you are not familiar with any of their work. If the greatest minds in computer science couldn't come up with it, how are you expecting to? Meaning, you seem to be planning on doing everything from scratch (e.g. when you mentioned learning grammars you never mentioned BNF). This means, even if you did figure out the key to AI it would take you >40 years seeing as how thats how long it took the collective knowledge of all the AI scientists to get this far.

Furthermore, the idea of doing it in mIRC is just laughable. Since when does mIRC allow threading? The human brain is known to have redundant pathways that allow it to do MANY things at once. mIRC doesn't even allow you to emulate such a thing. Everything would be linearly processed rather than in a parallel manner. So expect it to mean, if you said "type my essay for me" even if your AI logic was perfect, and it could do it, it would say "here is your essay" about 5 months from now. You need parallel processing. Then of course there is the fact that mIRCscript is slow. You might be executing 10 trillion operations to solve a single logistical problem, mIRC doesn't have the speed to handle such a thing, actually the x86 processor can't even handle such a thing! Neural network computers, the closest thing to real AI we have, consist of thousands of processors all linked together. Does your PC have 1000+ processors in it? I know mine doesn't, in fact I think x86 is limited to something like 16 (though I could be mistaken).

To sum it up, I think it is a waste of time for you to reinvent the wheel, spend the next 5-10 years studying the work of others, learn a real language, and then try AI/NLP. I wouldn't waste my time trying it now if I were you since I'm 100% sure you will fail.

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33407 02/07/03 02:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15
U
Unit649 Offline
Pikka bird
Offline
Pikka bird
U
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15
The only thing I thought of when I saw the initial post is:

It must be nice to be able to dedicate 10 years to a project like this. He must have gotten a grant or has nothing better to do.

I doubt that, but must be nice. Lord knows I have too much "real life" to deal with to dedicate myself to such a project.

If you did get such a grant, I'd like to know how, lord knows I'd love to be able to waste my time on something thats probably impossible for 10 years-and get paid for it!


U
irc.foreverchat.net Founder
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33408 02/07/03 04:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
E
EmLoDnAoR Offline OP
Ameglian cow
OP Offline
Ameglian cow
E
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
many good point's here dude, but i think it's fun thinking about, and i said, i dont want to realice the imposibillity of it, at least not jet....

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33409 02/07/03 06:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,624
Raccoon Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,624
codemaster, I'm afraid your post is flawed in many ways.

Firstly, I highly doubt that EmLoDnAoR is attempting to write a script that he could have intellectual conversation with. There are thousands of AI bots out there, and while they may not run off neural networks nor be the BEST AI that's out there, they still exist.

Without these Sub-AI projects helping new minds wrap around new ideas which builds new pathways to help them gain an interest in the field later on in life... Artificial Intelligence wouldn't have made it as far as it has today. Just because Legos and Lincoln Logs and Constructs and of course the Erector Set, doesn't come anything close to the real deal... doesn't mean we should dismiss the idea that they're educational, if not simply FUN.

Also to tell EmLoDnAoR that if he wanted to start on AI, he wouldn't make any success or break new ground for a minimum of 40 years... is like telling Einstein not to bother with physics because people with better grades in math have spent a lifetime, so it would cost him his lifetime to simply match them.

Let me regress into 4y/o mode. [deleted by moderator as you KNEW i would]

EmLoDnAoR, please, waste your time on this. I'd like to hear of your success in 40 years, or maybe 20 or 10.

- Raccoon

Last edited by ParaBrat; 03/07/03 10:52 AM.

Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33410 02/07/03 07:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,984
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,984
Lets all hope though that artificial intelligence is never used to control anything critical like dams and power stations. To me any form of intelligence is flawed because it is not perfect and can never be perfect. In reality intelligence is just a randomly made decision with a one-off reason for making the decision and it's not always the right reason.

At the other end of the scale you have a computer programme which has preset functions and can do nothing else. Decisions on how the functions work and when they are performed are usually decided (in the industrial environment at least) by teams of engineers and other specialists that spend months looking at contingencies.

At least with the latter way of doing things and providing there's no breakdowns you can always expect what is going to happen.


Induced IRC
irc.induced.net
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33411 02/07/03 07:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
C
codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
Quote:

Firstly, I highly doubt that EmLoDnAoR is attempting to write a script that he could have intellectual conversation with. There are thousands of AI bots out there, and while they may not run off neural networks nor be the BEST AI that's out there, they still exist.

Then I suggest you read it again, specifically the part where he talks about telling an mIRC script to write an essay for him.

Quote:

Also to tell EmLoDnAoR that if he wanted to start on AI, he wouldn't make any success or break new ground for a minimum of 40 years... is like telling Einstein not to bother with physics because people with better grades in math have spent a lifetime, so it would cost him his lifetime to simply match them.

Einstein wrote NO mathematical formulas with any of his theories. In fact it is a well known fact that he even took e= mc^2 from another paper which quoted e=mv^2 (v = velocity). Oh and by the way, your logic is flawed anyway. Do you even read what I said? Einstein was VERY familiar with the work of Newton, he didn't just say "I know nothing about gravity, lets start from scratch!" He saw Newton's work and expanded on it. My argument is valid. If Einstein said "Physics? Whats that?" and then decided to work on the general theory of relativity, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere. He studied the work of others (as I suggested) and learned from their mistakes, namely the inaccuracies of Newton's Universal Laws of Gravitation which were known to have flaws.

Quote:
Let me regress into 4y/o mode. [insult deleted by moderator. yes it was an insult. yes i deleted it there and now have to delete it here or there wasnt much point in deleting it there].

Yup and that just adds to your credibility on this topic, "I can't come up with anything that makes sense to contradict what you said, so it's time for insults!" Guess I'll just ignore you as well. I guess your post in the general discussion forum of "_" should have given me insight about the kind of person you are.

Lastly, if the original poster took no offense to anything I said, and in fact agreed with at least some of what I said, why exactly did you need to stand up for him and try (unsuccessfully) to dispute everything I said, then insult me? I think if the original poster wanted to do that, he was more than capable of it, I doubt he needs you to be his protector.

I know you most likely won't respond to this, because any time I've ever proven anything you said wrong, or asked you to clarify you simply ignored my post entirely. For example when I asked you why a for loop is inherently slower than a while loop, or when you talked about how constants are rerely global and I asked you to prove it. To sum that up, you make up information to try and disprove others, then when you are asked to defend your statements you simply "forget" to ever reply about the post ever again. I for one no longer believe a single word you say.

Last edited by ParaBrat; 03/07/03 10:58 AM.
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33412 02/07/03 08:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,624
Raccoon Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,624
Thinking around, needing ideas...
Here EmLoDnAoR clearly indicates his willingness to learn.

I've been thinking around for over half an year now, on how to create some AI. However, every time i do i get confused, and i can't really figure out where to start.
So, i need ideas, a lot of them actually.

Again, a willingness to keep learning even when he hits bumps in the road.

I've chosen to name it "The Human Brain Project" *uuuuuh*
First of all, the idea started when i thougth, "hey, why not make mIRC record all my conversations, then make a bot that answers in the same way i'm doing" but that's mainly not to intelligent, is it? Firs of all you will have to ask the exact same question to the bot that someone asked me, then again, what if they asked what the weather was like(?).

This is a prefect example of entry level AI. Responses which mimic a human's.

You make it sound like EmLoDnAoR is doomed from the start because he doesn't know as much about AI as you. The fact of the matter is EmLoDnAoR is younger than you, probably still in high school, and still has potential to excel in this subject. Whereas you have already chosen your path, so you will never succeed in AI research as EmLoDnAoR might. (I think this even scares you)

When you start thinking about this you may understand my confusionness, (If that's a word). Anyhow, i've desided not to realice the imposibillity of it. First of all it have to learn all the grammar, but i want it do be multilangual, so it some time in the future allso to use it as an translator, not only word by word, my with right grammar and stuff.
It may not contain big words like "Backus Naur Grammar, Fuzzy logic, Logical heuristics, Parallel algorithm execution, etc.", but they're all there. A clear indication that he's facing the right direction. If only he had someone with your wisdom to guide him, rather than insult him, he might actually know where to START.

So i figured, why not try for ten years or so, before giving totally up.
Even more persistence to learn! This guy is definitely no slacker.

That's about all i have to say at the moment, i need a lot of ideas, so pleace....
Would it not be GREAT to tell mIRC, "hey, i'm late on a eseay i'm suppose to write, can you just do it for me?

Yes, I read it again... "specifically this part."

To answer your question, it sounds to me that EmLoDnAoR has set himself a goal to achieve in 10 years, not today, not on this forum. We all need goals, especially ambitious ones... and this one will keep him on the right track for years to come.

To the ppl who want to reply with messages as, "this is impossible" plz don't reply at all :P
codemastr, he couldn't have meant you more without naming you specifically.

And btw, I never said that "Einstein wrote mathematical formulas with any of his theories." I suggest you re-read MY post instead. I merely said that he failed in math, the foundation to physics. Just as you accused EmLoDnAoR of not knowing anything about the fundamentals of AI, so he should just give up. I dont mean to say Einstein didn't UNDERSTAND math, he just didn't like the way it was taught to him. Yet, he started somewhere, and DID eventually learn it.

* Raccoon skims through your last 3 chunks of blather looking for actual questions.

I'll defend whom I choose from the big bad codemastr.

apple core.


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33413 02/07/03 09:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
C
codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
Quote:

Thinking around, needing ideas...
Here EmLoDnAoR clearly indicates his willingness to learn.

I gave him ideas, he should read up on Backus Naur Grammar, fuzzy logic, etc. etc.

Quote:
To the ppl who want to reply with messages as, "this is impossible" plz don't reply at all :P
codemastr, he couldn't have meant you more without naming you specifically.


When did I say "AI is impossible" I don't recall doing that. I would never say such a thing seeing as how AI is the career I intend to go into. So, if I thought AI was impossible, why would I choose to devote my career to it? I said it wasn't impossible (I used those exact words) all I said was if he wants to try and do AI from scratch instead of building on the work of others, then it will be impossible FOR HIM. And I also pointed out flaws in mIRC that make it impossible IN MIRC. And again, if he was referring to me with that comment, why would he respond saying I "made many good points"?

Quote:
You make it sound like EmLoDnAoR is doomed from the start because he doesn't know as much about AI as you. The fact of the matter is EmLoDnAoR is younger than you, probably still in high school, and still has potential to excel in this subject. Whereas you have already chosen your path, so you will never succeed in AI research as EmLoDnAoR might. (I think this even scares you)

Ok give me a minute to stop laughing. First off, I only graduated from high school a year ago, so how would being in high school make him so much younger than me? At most, he is 4 years younger than me. Secondly, how do you know I won't suceed in AI research? I guess you've met me and talked to me about it, read papers I've written about it, consulted my professors about it, etc., right? I'd bet you've done none of those things, so quit making up garbage already!Thirdly, why would I be afraid if he made an advancement in AI research? I would be euphorious. It would mean someone else has already done some work for me. Scientists don't get mad when someone else makes a discovery, they get excited. Because now they have more tools to work with. Read up on the celebrations that mathematicians had when someone finally proved Fermat's Last Theorem. No one was scared that someone else did it, they couldn't have been happier. Again this goes back to my "do you have any idea what you are talking about?" argument. If someone, anyone, made a signifigant advancement in AI research I would be nothing but happy, both for them, for the field, and for the world as a whole.

Seeing as how you clearly don't read entire posts, you just skim them looking for things to argue, I'm not even going to bother replying to you anymore. Again, I doubt whether a single word you state is fact, you could tell me "watch out you're going to be hit by a car!" and I'd stand still and die before I believed what you said.

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33414 02/07/03 09:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,624
Raccoon Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,624
Seeing as how you clearly don't read entire posts, you just skim them looking for things to argue, I'm not even going to bother replying to you anymore. Again, I doubt whether a single word you state is fact, you could tell me "watch out you're going to be hit by a car!" and I'd stand still and die before I believed what you said.

That's interesting, as it's exactly what you just did.

I'm not going to bother quoting entire posts word for word now, if you're just going to accuse me of skimming.


Well. At least I won lunch.
Good philosophy, see good in bad, I like!
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33415 02/07/03 10:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
E
EmLoDnAoR Offline OP
Ameglian cow
OP Offline
Ameglian cow
E
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
First of all, thanks a lot Raccoon, i needed that suport... but then agean, i'm still confused, but it have'nt been more than 3 days or somthing sice i posted, so i hope to get more comments and ideas from you all...

i will post an online forum soon, for this topic only

http://humanbrain.cjb.net #33416 02/07/03 10:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25
E
EmLoDnAoR Offline OP
Ameglian cow
OP Offline
Ameglian cow
E
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25

Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33417 03/07/03 11:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,127
P
ParaBrat Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
P
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,127
General reply:
Altho we limit the urls posted here, within the context of this thread, atm i am inclined to leave the one EmLoDnAoR posted.

In spite of the...um.. disagreements, i think in diff ways both Raccoon and codemastr gave the original poster a lot to think about and direction. good for both of you, thats nice to see.

codemastr: the discussion about your age made me chuckle. (no offense intended). It actually was a compliment to your knowledge and the manner in which you reply. When you dont physically see someone, its not surprising we tend to make assumptions based on what we read, the manner in which its written, and its content. (case in point: consider the number of ppl who incorrectly assumed i am male)

EmLoDnAoR: goals and dreams are good,and so is your curiousity. the manner in which you responded here shows you arent easily discouraged and value input. keep it up!

Raccoon: 1. nice to see someone going out of their way to give encouragement. 2. *thwap* for the name calling. 3. yes i noticed. very tricky, but at least i stopped cringing. for the moment. *thwap* along with thank you.


ParaBrat @#mIRCAide DALnet
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33418 03/07/03 03:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 127
F
feud Offline
Vogon poet
Offline
Vogon poet
F
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 127
Quote:
Thirdly, why would I be afraid if he made an advancement in AI research? I would be euphorious.


just to spite you and your invariable arrogance, "euphorious" isn't even a word. the word you're looking for "euphoric".


------
deep down, i'm really superficial.
Re: Artificial Intelligence, Thinking... #33419 03/07/03 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
C
codemastr Offline
Hoopy frood
Offline
Hoopy frood
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,809
<sarcasm>
I am so terribly sorry that my spelling error offended you so greatly that you felt the need to take the time to write a special post just to correct me. In the future I will try to live up to your expectations with respect to my spelling habits. I'm terribly sorry I let you down so horribly. I will do my best never to spell wrong again.
</sarcasm>

Why would telling me I used a word ending incorrectly upset me? It does no harm to me, in fact it helps me, because now I'll never make that mistake again. So if your way of "spiting" me was to actually inform me that I was using a word correctly, then well done!

Page 1 of 2 1 2