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#2877 - 21/12/02 09:27 PM Why is Khaled so secretive?
Captain_insano Offline
Pikka bird

Registered: 18/12/02
Posts: 10
why is he?
I know he prob gets a million questions everyday
but why else

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#2878 - 21/12/02 10:08 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 2962
Loc: Norwich, UK
So secretive about what?
He's got a section on this website which tells you a fair bit about him.

I've never thought of him as being particularly secretive. Maybe he doesn't answer all emails the second he gets them, I'd say that's more a matter of finding the time rather than secrecy.
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#2879 - 21/12/02 11:27 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Karen Offline
Vogon poet

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 177
Loc: SE Pennsylvania, USA
smile He is sort of a celebrity, but truly you are only using software he created and works on. Frankly, he shares a lot more about his life though his web page (starbucks gives url) than most folks I know on line and off !! smile

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#2880 - 22/12/02 07:03 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Necroman Offline
Babel fish

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 89
He doesn't announce estimated release dates, doesn't speak of features he's working at, doesn't appear on IRC to answer people's questions.

No "celebrity" behaves like that. Even people from Microsoft condescend and talk to us mortals at forums, showing that they care about people who make their living.

I've heard a guess that explains everything: Khaled doesn't speak English. Tjerk translates the help file and the web page for him. grin
_________________________
Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet

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#2881 - 22/12/02 09:19 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Poppy Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 843
Loc: UK
I don't suppose Khaled is any more or less secretive than anyone else who's a 'celebrity' in their field. Like starbucks mafia and Karen say, there's his own website if you want more personal info...and the pro's and cons of giving details before a new release of mIRC is due out is discussed elsewhere in the forums. Can you imagine how tedious it would be for him if he did chat on IRC (under his own name!) to answer the same questions over and over? As for him not speaking English, although it's not his native language, he lives in London so I think he'd have picked it up! grin


Edited by Poppy (22/12/02 09:24 AM)
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Never compare yourself to others - they're more screwed up than you think.

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#2882 - 22/12/02 09:26 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Cobra Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 208
Loc: Ohio, USA
gezz leave the man alone lol

i only run a simple #mIRC help channel .. and i get tired of ppl buging me .. if u ask me K puts up with alot :P

can u even fathom the number of emails he gets.. now i get alof of emails .. but its not even a fraction of what he gets flooded with in and out of every singal day (i can only asume)

as far as release dates etc .. this again is only a guess .. but i know when if i were makeing a program for the public (most of what i code i dont release) i wouldnt give a release date.. maybe to my close friends an estimated release date.. and the reason i wouldnt do it is because i wouldnt know when that date was.. u can guess.. but what if you guess early .. mIRC is HUGE .. if he sez .. ok in the ball park of THIS DATE .. but something comes up in his family .. or there is a bug he that is just realy a pain to get ride of .. or a last minit feature he wants to get into the new version .. then i'd guess he needs plenty of time to test everything to make sure its praticly bug free.. so he tests somethign for what .. 3 weeks after last change before release with no bugs.. gives it 1 more week and finds a bug that might take him anouther month to fix .. and then there is the time in testing for bugs again to make sure he gets as many as he can?

of course i can only guess at all this .. thats how i'd be anyway .. i'm sure K has alot beter system then mine .. but still

your askin an aweful lot .. these boards alow you as the general public to express your opnion and report bugs, along with give feature requests

and i do know for a fact that he does read alot of these posts .. at least in the bug reports/feature requests sections.

this board in itself shows how much he cares..

eh .. i could go on .. but i think u get the point.. i hope so anyway :P

Cobra^

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#2883 - 22/12/02 09:57 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Necroman Offline
Babel fish

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 89
You can't deny the fact that lots of people would like to communicate with the author just to synchronize their scripting with his future plans, or simply to make sure he's still alive.

It would take him about 5 minutes a week to show himself on IRC, or is it too much?

What would be wrong, for example, with informing users about adding transparency to the next version, so that people won't waste their time implementing it with DLLs ?

But what amuses me the most is the "political correctness" of our moderators. Whenever a person comes up with polite and well-founded critics (or suggestion), he gets "Khaled is OMG, have a bit of respect, get on your knees and welcome to the wonderful world of mIRC! smile
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Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet

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#2884 - 22/12/02 10:19 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Cobra Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 208
Loc: Ohio, USA
1. your more than welcome to be a ctitic and voice your opnion

2. i dont bow before anyone .. i state my opnion as it is, regardless .. i have just as much right to voice mine as you do :P

3. i do have alot of respect for Khaled .. look at what he has done with mIRC .. its not all bad to acnkowledge good works of others u know.

4. 5 mins!! .. yeah right .. u know how many users would be in that location .. how many questions he'd have to run though .. .. trying to be fair and give everyone a chance..

you have the opertunity to communicate with him though this board.. .. if u wish to sugest that he make an irc apearence then feel free to do so, but u didnt put it as a sugestion .. u put it as a cut at the fact that he hasnt (as far as u know)

Cobra^

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#2885 - 22/12/02 10:29 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Poppy Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 843
Loc: UK
I don't know about you, but when I've finished work for the day, I just want to relax. I don't want to spend my free time analyzing and discussing it to the Nth degree, and answering the same questions over and over again ad nauseum. As Cobra pointed out - that's what this board is for. I personally feel that Khaled gives as much information as is necessary. Good grief...you expect him to eat, sleep and breathe mIRC? He's said himself, he had no idea how massive it was going to be when he first coded it. Again, as Cobra said - give the guy a break! :tongue:
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Never compare yourself to others - they're more screwed up than you think.

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#2886 - 22/12/02 10:39 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Poppy Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 843
Loc: UK
Quote:
No "celebrity" behaves like that. Even people from Microsoft condescend and talk to us mortals at forums, showing that they care about people who make their living.

mIRC is not necessary to run a machine. Unfortunately, microsoft products generally are, one way or another. I think you've taken that out of context, just a tad!
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Never compare yourself to others - they're more screwed up than you think.

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#2887 - 22/12/02 11:32 AM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Necroman Offline
Babel fish

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 89
Eh, Cobra, the real problem is that YOU are sitting here telling us what Khaled would feel and say if he could...

People often wonder why God doesn't talk to them. The usual replies are:

1. He has said everything in his Holy Book (webpage).
2. He has sent his son (Tjerk) to preach the truth (FAQ) to us.
3. He speaks through his prophets (moderators).

Just a funny resemblance.
_________________________
Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet

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#2888 - 22/12/02 12:43 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 2984
Loc: Hill End, NSW, Australia
I'm probably more secretive than Khaled.
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Induced IRC
irc.induced.net

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#2889 - 22/12/02 02:54 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
OzzY Offline
Ameglian cow

Registered: 08/12/02
Posts: 20
Loc: Istanbul, Turkey
/me is waiting Khaled's reply to this post.
Will he ? IMO, he will not. He is secretive because he is busy or something else but nothing change his secretive.
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Ozan Güven aka OzzY @ UnderNet
Who is a lamer? lamers.org.uk

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#2890 - 22/12/02 03:11 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Karen Offline
Vogon poet

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 177
Loc: SE Pennsylvania, USA
Necroman, you assume WAY too much, but frankly, that's ok, because you come off to others a pompus individual.

Khaled does in fact come to IRC, I know, I've chatted with him there. He in fact does reply to emails, far more than MOST other company's do.

Maybe you would be soothed if he provided you with a daily schedule of his life, including food and bathroom breaks :tongue:

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#2891 - 22/12/02 03:18 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
The_Game Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 1237
Loc: Michigan, USA
When will the new version come out?

simple answer: When it comes out!

sorry couldnt resist that one smile

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#2892 - 22/12/02 03:18 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Watchdog Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 2984
Loc: Hill End, NSW, Australia
Maybe you would be soothed if he provided you with a daily schedule of his life, including food and bathroom breaks

This would make for a great new forum here. I'd be glad to share my schedule with all :-)
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Induced IRC
irc.induced.net

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#2893 - 22/12/02 05:38 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
keeker Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 15/12/02
Posts: 204
Loc: Iowa, USA
Quote:
He doesn't announce estimated release dates, doesn't speak of features he's working at, doesn't appear on IRC to answer people's questions.



If you connected to whatever network it is you use, and you see someone named "khaled" "BigK" "Arnie" or something to that effect, in some help room, would YOU believe its Khaled? i wouldnt, i would assume khaled comes on with a totally different nick just so he WONT get inundated with some of the silly ass problems people have with his excellent program.

Quote:
No "celebrity" behaves like that. Even people from Microsoft condescend and talk to us mortals at forums, showing that they care about people who make their living.

There is NO compasison between Mikro$sloft and khaled, khaled works hard to produce a great program where as Mikro$sloft "MVPs" or whatever the heck they call themselves, only come out to inflate thier big fat egos, as is evidenced by most of thier siglines, "SO and SO, MVP-webpage" or however it is they do it now.
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keek: Scots - intr.v. keeked, keek·ing, keeks
To peek; peep.

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#2894 - 22/12/02 07:06 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Necroman Offline
Babel fish

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 89
Just left the forum for a few hours, and look how much feedback is here! :P

keeker, so you think Khaled cannot get himself a valid Undernet (or whatever) userid, and publish it for everyone's certainty? And before blaming Micro$oft (while using their software) recall what OS drives mIRC.

Karen, I can't believe you're calling me names. It isn't politically correct, is it. Anyway, you shouldn't get mad at me just because you saw yourself in the mirror of my post.

Enough flames. Getting back to the subject, I'll try to summarize what I've said earlier.

1. Khaled is not a public person, as the original poster mentioned. Personally, I wouldn't call him secretive (it's better to avoid strong adjectives, like "pompous individual"), but mIRC promotion would make any management teacher commit suicide.

2. I don't believe that Khaled has no time. Even presidents arrange meetings with their nations. Even William Gates and Linus Thorvalds, whose number of users is incomparable with that of Khaled, give interviews and share their opinions on the future of computers.

3. If Khaled REALLY has no time, is everything OK with his development model?

Continuing my analogy with religion, most of us are left to pray, wait for mana, and worship the icons smile The question about the next version stays similar to the one about the Last Judgement. In both cases the answer is "you'll know when it comes".
_________________________
Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet

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#2895 - 22/12/02 08:22 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Karen Offline
Vogon poet

Registered: 07/12/02
Posts: 177
Loc: SE Pennsylvania, USA
Karen, I can't believe you're calling me names. It isn't politically correct, is it. Anyway, you shouldn't get mad at me just because you saw yourself in the mirror of my post.
I am far from politically correct. You 'assume' way too much. As for 'calling' you a pompus individual, if the shoe fits, feel free to wear it.

If you like mIRC, use it. When new releases are deemed ready for release, they will be released. If you choose to update at that time, so be it. When you need help with mIRC, visit these forums or the #mIRC channel of your choice. If you expect something beyond these things, Im afraid you'll be disappointed.

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#2896 - 22/12/02 08:23 PM Re: Why is Khaled so secretive?
Necroman Offline
Babel fish

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 89
I am.

Have you ever tried to analyze why mIRC has become as successful as it is? Was it technically superior to its competitors?

Not at all. It created a unique community around itself, quite unexpectedly. A symbiosis of a chat client and a scripting host, in conjunction with IRC magic - seasoned users involving new ones, like in a chain reaction.

A community is a very vulnerable phenomenon, it needs care and attention. It needs to see a pillar of fire ahead.

If people keep asking about new features or new versions, it doesn't mean they're stupid. It only means they expect programmers to keep in touch with them. They've got used to such behaviour, it's normal.

I'm disappointed because I'd like mIRC to evolve faster, and I believe that communication with users is one of the few ways to achieve that.


Edited by Necroman (22/12/02 09:18 PM)
_________________________
Sincerely,
Necroman, #mIRC @ Undernet

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