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Standalone Script Engine #210059 03/03/09 06:04 AM
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GBleezy Offline OP
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Anyone know if there's a standalone commandline mirc script parsing engine available anywhere?

Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: GBleezy] #210062 03/03/09 09:43 AM
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MTec007 Offline
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i don't believe that there is one.

Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: GBleezy] #210450 16/03/09 09:12 PM
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Osah Offline
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Khaled should make the scripting language standalone... there is one started by visionz -- but discountinued...

Khaled; mirc community is dying; believe it or not, it is... everyday we are loosing people interest in writing mirc scripts...

Bring a Standalone interpeter...

thx


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Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Osah] #210454 16/03/09 09:57 PM
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sparta Offline
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uhu ? first time here? every day it joins new scripters that want advice on how they should start learn how to make there own scripts smile


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Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Osah] #210465 17/03/09 09:12 AM
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Horstl Offline
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If "scripting community is dying" - and I'd question this assertion as well - how could a "standalone" interpreter make a difference?
The vast majority of mIRC scripts are made to react to events on IRC networks and/or to manipulate/extend the GUI features of the client.
So does the scripting language MSL: The major part of it deals with either:
- IRC-related commands, identifiers and events (DCC stuff emerges from chat encounters)
- client-related commands, identifiers and events (for the most part: GUI-related).

To put it different; what's left of MSL in a standalone interpreter (who is neither connected to an IRC network nor running a GUI)?
Imho verry little. Compared to other languages, MSL isn't very powerfull, isn't very coherent, and has countless quirks / limitations (just two examples: the "double spaces issue", the "single-thread bottleneck").
And that's nothing to blame Khaled for; MSL never was meant to be a fully-fledged programming language for "standalone" tasks. It's a toolkit of the client for the client - take the client away and you have a petty set of options remaining.

If compared to other programming languages, MSL isn't just incredibly simple but incredibly easy. That's why I love it. However, if you want to do programming "beyond mIRC" imho you should go for one of the many well-established, fully-fledged languages who hasn't been made with a single application in mind.

...my two cents, maybe I don't see the whole picture yet smile

Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Horstl] #210763 25/03/09 12:57 AM
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Osah Offline
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See mIRC supports Dialogs -- DCX ... Sockets... Picwins... People make mp3 players, games, internet apps... nothing irc related...

When i was a newbie programmer - i was hired by a company to create them a tool to read a custom database from the Ford Motor Company -- i figured they need it quick i use a scripting lang...

I ended loading mirc into their Server computer and it runs a mirc based addon (over 3,000 lines of code) -- and i received $3200 for it written within 4 days.. which is good.

I never do anything in the past 10 yrs with mirc scripting irc-related... When i do an Addon -- it will work wether you are connected to IRC or not.



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Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Osah] #210764 25/03/09 01:51 AM
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Just what the heck do you think the IRC part of mIRC is?
If you think that it's anything other than Internet Relay Chat, then you are mistaken.

If you wrote a database for Ford using mIRC, then my hat's off to you, as I wouldn't have even considered using mIRC for a database program, since there are programs (stand alone executables) that are designed for database usage.

Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Osah] #210766 25/03/09 02:32 AM
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Horstl Offline
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Yet mIRC is an IRC client - that's it's scope, and always will be.
While maybe half or so of mIRCs regular users run some kind of script, only a fragment of them do write scripts. And I'm sure of these scripters only a fragment is interrested in things "outside" of mIRC (in the sense of "while mIRC hasn't to be running as chat client"). Thus imho only a fragment of a fragment of mIRC users would benefit of a standalone interpreter...
While this doesn't render your request invalid, it renders the issue ... very unlikely. You may like to push mIRC to it's limits and beyond the borders of all chat-related tasks - however: why should Khaled support those in the first place? He's not sitting around bored and asking himself what fancy new thing to add next. There's always been a lot of unchecked boxes on his todo list (e.g. the general UTF compatibility thingie atm, and I fear it will keep him busy for some time to come - but w/o any question a incomparably important issue it is, and at the heart of IRC - as the world has never been ASCII, and it's ASCIInes diminishes every day).

That aside, should a hypothetical standalone interpreter carry over all the (current) limitations o mIRC/MSL, just to maintain compatibility? Wouldn't it (rightfully) provoke a ton of new feature requests, disperse / distract the developmental focus off the main app (and it's hundreds of thousands of chatting users)?
Every task has it's tool, and the devs of a tool ought to focus on it's dedicated function. mIRC may be close to a swiss army knife in many cases, but you'll never fell a tree with it (...not without avoidable pain at least smile ).

All the best, but please don't have high hopes - to me, it's very unlikely to happen.

Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Horstl] #210769 25/03/09 08:52 AM
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Wims Offline
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I know that something like this will not happen but when you said :
Quote:
Thus imho only a fragment of a fragment of mIRC users would benefit of a standalone interpreter...
I disagree.
Like you, it's just supposition because we don't know exactly how many people would use it, but I think that this number is more than "a fragment of a fragment".
If it was added, would you be not the first to use it ?


Looking for a good help channel about mIRC? Check #mircscripting @ irc.swiftirc.net
Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Wims] #210777 25/03/09 03:35 PM
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Horstl Offline
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Personally I didn't write or use (or liked to write) any script that would benefit from this feature so far. I'm well aware that this is only my particular POV, and I'd never consider myself representative of all scripters out there.
But then, personal experience showed that most of those who write scripts use less of MSLs existing features than you do or I do... and that's why I hold only a minority² of scripters would actually use it. This and the more important fact that we scripters don't represent the average mIRC user made up my previous assertions - the more people benefit from a new feature, the better the feature; and I can think of a dozen other requests which would serve more users, but didn't make it so far.
Afaik Khaled is adding features to serve users of mIRC the chat client (and MSL is his toolkit for us to extend the functionality of the chat client), not to allow a bunch of scripters perform fancy tasks that aren't related to this chat client at all. The fact than you can do it doesn't mean it's the purpose of MSL. smile You may write a music player for mIRC; it's main advantage may be that you don't need another app running alongside mIRC to hear your music. It's well valid inside mIRC. However if you want to write a standalone player - for me it's obvious to use existing standalone programming languages, -interpreters / -compilers, not to request one for the very limited MSL.

Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Horstl] #210781 25/03/09 04:48 PM
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Wims Offline
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I was not saying that "the fact than you can do it doesn't mean it's the purpose of msl"
I've already read some threads about this feature and perfectly understood why it would probably not be added, but I think it would be a great idea, that will just let people that do not use mirc (the chat client) to use the scripting part, and let those who are already using the chat client to use the feature as well, how this could not be benefit ?

Quote:
Afaik Khaled is adding features to serve users of mIRC the chat client (and MSL is his toolkit for us to extend the functionality of the chat client), not to allow a bunch of scripters perform fancy tasks that aren't related to this chat client at all.
Why then do we have features that are not related to the chat client ?


Looking for a good help channel about mIRC? Check #mircscripting @ irc.swiftirc.net
Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Wims] #210784 25/03/09 07:56 PM
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MTec007 Offline
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why bicker? you guys have been around for a while, you have seen this requested before and it hasn't been added yet. just leave the topic alone. Khaled has probably already made his mind up about this so he probably doesn't need a debate on the issue.

Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: MTec007] #210785 25/03/09 08:27 PM
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sparta Offline
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Reply to NO ONE!

Why would anyone take time to install a editor? if they don't have time to install mirc, then they don't have time install a stand alone editor. So why not just face the music? mirc is the editor, no other program smile


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Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: MTec007] #210786 25/03/09 09:50 PM
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Wims Offline
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So we should not debate because something won't be added ?
And I'm not really debating, just replying because I disagree with what he said.I think it's normal to "bicker" when several people are giving opinions


Looking for a good help channel about mIRC? Check #mircscripting @ irc.swiftirc.net
Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Wims] #210789 25/03/09 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Wims
So we should not debate because something won't be added ?


In this specific case, yes. You should be intelligent enough to tell the difference between features that have not yet been added and features that are fundamentally unfit for mIRC and will never be considered. Khaled's goal is to write an IRC client- if you take "IRC client" out of the picture, we are not talking about mIRC anymore and therefore there's no reason to be discussing it here; it's just noise.

Khaled should just reply and settle this pointless discussion once and for all.


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Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: MTec007] #210791 25/03/09 11:26 PM
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@ MTec007 [ & argv0 ]
I agree with Wims... We're not trying to change Khaled's mind in this or that direction - we're simply sharing our points of view. And the fact that we both agree that it's unlikely to be implemented doesn't render our exchange of thoughts / different opinions about the use of the request futile. In fact I always assumed these boards were made for this kind of exchange...

@ Wims
Yup, there are many features that aren't related to chatting itself. Dll/Dde/Com/Run/Sockets... - they all may be used as some kind of interface to the binary world "beyond" the client. But they all do add to the versatility of the chat client - and I wondered about where to draw the line that defines the purpose of mIRC and MSL. A standalone interpreter would allow to use MSL outside of the client - of course an interresting thing for dedicated mIRC scripters to play with (though, as stated above, I question it's comparable practical use).
But (how) could this add to mIRC in general?

Last edited by Horstl; 25/03/09 11:30 PM.
Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Horstl] #210794 25/03/09 11:49 PM
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Requesting something does not automatically make it a valid request. There are lines defined by conventional wisdom of what requests should be made and what shouldn't. Generally speaking, the history of requests defines that convention. Looking at the history of requests on this subject (using Search), it's been ignored or outright denied each time, which makes this seem more or less futile.

If someone were to come here and ask for mIRC to make them coffee, it would not be accepted as a valid request, it would just be noise. Similarly, continually discussing a feature that has failed to be implemented for years without adding any new insight to the discussion is simply that: noise. I would suggest that there are far more productive conversations to be had on these forums, there's no reason to detract attention from them. If you have something new to say on this topic, fine-- but if you're just going to say "I want a standalone script engine it would be cool"-- save it; we've had the "scope" discussion hundreds of times, none of this is new.


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Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: argv0] #210806 26/03/09 11:34 AM
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Wims Offline
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Quote:
In this specific case, yes. You should be intelligent enough to tell the difference between features that have not yet been added and features that are fundamentally unfit for mIRC and will never be considered.
And you should be intelligent enough to let people talk about mirc feature if they want to do so, what's the problem with this, I think you're not the one that can say if we should continue this conversation or not.
Quote:
Khaled's goal is to write an IRC client- if you take "IRC client" out of the picture, we are not talking about mIRC anymore and therefore there's no reason to be discussing it here; it's just noise.
It's simple, I'm talking about the feature, and the feature talk about mIRC, sorry if it's just noise for you.

Note also that I never ask for this feature, and that a reply of Khaled will not prevent people to express their ideas on a feature that has been requested, even if ignored.
But indeed, a reply of him would be interesting.


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Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: GBleezy] #215338 12/09/09 10:18 AM
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I, too, used MSL for offline stuff more then once, one time in particular, for work.
It's easy, simple, small, quick...just a snippet and you have what you need.
I would benefit a hell of a lot from a standalone.

Also, if you don't like what you see, don't read it.
No one's forcing you.

ziv.

Last edited by ziv; 12/09/09 10:20 AM.
Re: Standalone Script Engine [Re: Osah] #215351 12/09/09 08:40 PM
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tontito Offline
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LOL

You are my Hero! smile

I have done some stuff like that but never got that much.

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