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Any alternative script editor? #191067 01/12/07 05:14 PM
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bwuser Offline OP
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Is there any other script editor then the build in one?

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191070 01/12/07 05:19 PM
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nomer2007 Offline
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yes there is
try www.google.com

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191071 01/12/07 05:43 PM
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The script editor has everything you need and nothing you don't. smile

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: nomer2007] #191072 01/12/07 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: nomer2007
yes there is
try www.google.com

For example?

Don`t say some standard editor which has no mirc script support, this would not be really helpful.

Originally Posted By: RoCk

The script editor has everything you need and nothing you don't. smile

Did you you some ide in past? smile

(Syntax highlight, debugging, code completer)

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191073 01/12/07 07:09 PM
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Syntax highlighting and code completers are lazy; read the help file and type the entire code yourself.

Debugging already exists; just add /echo lines within your code.

-genius_at_work

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: genius_at_work] #191083 02/12/07 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: genius_at_work
Syntax highlighting and code completers are lazy; read the help file and type the entire code yourself.


They save time, which is valuable when you're working on something that could be considered a medium or large sized project.

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: hixxy] #191096 02/12/07 11:01 AM
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I don't know that they are really all that time saving... I can type really quickly and if I have to slow down typing a command just to see if the code completer completes it with the correct command, it will actually take longer. Colored syntax isn't bad, but isn't all that important. Unless you miss things a lot (parentheses, braces, etc), you really don't need it. I wouldn't mind having those in the built in editor, but I also wouldn't use those as a reason to switch editors either. Besides, I prefer to have instant access to test whatever I script without having to reload the script all of the time. That in itself saves a lot of time by using the built-in editor.


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Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: Riamus2] #191105 02/12/07 04:22 PM
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If you know every name and syntax of every command off by heart then you might not have a use for it, but for beginner to intermediate scripters they can be very useful features.

For example, a newbie might think that sockets have to be "ended" or "exited" rather than "closed", thus using /sockend or /sockexit rather than /sockclose

That's just one example, there's plenty more though..

/hadd -> /happend
/hfree -> /hdelete|/hdestroy
...

Most "intelligent" code completers will also tell you what parameters go with the command/identifier too, thus making it much easier to know exactly how to use the command and save you having to open the help file to check.

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: hixxy] #191120 03/12/07 01:12 AM
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And at the same time, the user never actually learns how to do the scripting and relies solely on the editor to do the work for his or her. I think anyone who wants to script *should* be looking in the help file on a regular basis... at least until he or she knows enough that it isn't necessary.

There are many things out there that do the same sort of thing... let someone do something without knowing how to do it. And when that person doesn't have the "tool" available, he or she isn't able to do anything. Just as a quick example, schools teach how to do math without a calculator before they let kids start using one. A calculator is faster and easier. But when you don't have one, if you can't do the math by hand, you're stuck. It's all the same idea. Learning how to do it is better than having it done for you. Eventually, that will just bite you.


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Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: Riamus2] #191136 03/12/07 03:49 PM
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I second this opinion.
There is room for some improvements in useability, for example syntax highlighting or an improved search feature (wildcards, regex) etc.
These issues have beeen suggested before, and these issues can be found (to some degree) in third party editors - but then, these editors are not "specialised" in our tiny, exotic language called MSL - thus I'd like to see them in-build. smile
But, instead of a "auto syntax completer", I think a general revisal of the helfile would help all of us - and this revisal (fixing small errors/ambiguous passages, adding some undocumentated commands, adding more examples [!] etc) would be a large-scale project none the less.

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: Riamus2] #191140 03/12/07 04:52 PM
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It's not our place to say whether people should spend time learning how to script. Perhaps they just want to create one script for one specific purpose. Don't forget that mIRC is first and foremost a chat client, it's not supposed to be a general purpose programming environment. From this perspective code completion would benefit your average "non-hardcore" user, and would also benefit more experienced people by saving them extra keystrokes.

I don't think the fact that it might or might not discourage people from looking in the help file is a very good reason not to include this feature.

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: hixxy] #191141 03/12/07 04:59 PM
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If it is added then it will be forced on everyone that doesn't want it just so some don't have to bother to "spend time learning how to script". The syntax highlighting would be fine but if I were forced to deal with code completion it would drive me suicidal, possibly postal. Horstl pretty much has the same ideas of editor improvement as I; syntax highlighting, support for wildcard and regex search. Re-writing the help file to make it more understandable to the average "non-hardcore" user would be great.

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: nomer2007] #191142 03/12/07 05:13 PM
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The question wasn`t if this features are good or not. Sure them are, most professional programmers / software studios are using ide`s with similar features because of an obvious reason - if you like them, them are useful.

Also collection feedback about the build in editor is a good idea, but I think this is the wrong topic name to get attention on that.

I think this question is solved. There is no alternative script editor and no external compiler/interpreter. The last open question for me is, why a new language just for a irc client...

Originally Posted By: nomer2007
yes there is
try www.google.com

Thanks again for the most pointless answer. Tell people to search, whatever the question is. This is not the point of a forum. At least there is nothing to find to answer that question on google.

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191143 03/12/07 05:18 PM
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Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191152 03/12/07 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: bwuser

The last open question for me is, why a new language just for a irc client...



I think it probably just started small to do a few IRC related things, and as Khaled says in Khaled's FAQ...

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: hixxy] #191153 03/12/07 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: hixxy
I don't think the fact that it might or might not discourage people from looking in the help file is a very good reason not to include this feature.


I never said it shouldn't be included in mIRC. I wouldn't mind having it included. I only said that, 1) I don't think it really improves speed that much unless you don't know commands, and 2) using "completers" of any sort tends to keep people from taking the time to learn how to do things.

I think adding such things to mIRC's script editor to add more functionality to it is a good idea and I never meant that it isn't. I was only referring to the idea that using alternate scripting programs because of those reasons isn't necessarily as good as people make it out to be for the reasons I mentioned here and also, as I mentioned previously, you have to take the time to reload your script anytime you want to test it if you use some other editor, which can slow you down more than any features on the editor *might* speed you up... unless you never test until you are done, of course.

I also want to second the idea that improving the help file is also a good idea. And examples are probably the most important thing that the help file is lacking. There are examples for only some of the commands, and not enough examples even for most of those to really show how things work. That said, writing help files is a long and boring process and most people don't like doing so. I know, I've been slowly writing one for Invision and it is so tedious that I still haven't completed it.


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Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: Riamus2] #191156 03/12/07 10:47 PM
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Try writing system documentation.. wink


Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191180 04/12/07 02:22 PM
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nomer2007 Offline
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Quote:
Is there any other script editor then the build in one?


You asked that right? isn't the mEditor that i posted earlier a mirc editor too? grin

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191182 04/12/07 06:42 PM
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Sure code completers are found in other editors, but these editors are highly professional programs which allow you to create designs and applications that could possibly earn you a 6 figure income. mIRC is more of a hobby, IMO. Not to take anything away from the work Khaled has done.

Considering mIRC just got an facelift and was fitted with a "new" script editor, you should post your requests in the feature requests section.

Re: Any alternative script editor? [Re: bwuser] #191183 04/12/07 07:11 PM
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Personally, I dont like the idea of having a completer etc on the normal scripts editor. Sure, it takes time to learn how to do things. But then, after you've learnt it, even if not all of it, you get the satisfaction that you have just made something yourself.

Granted, I'm not the best of scripters, but I know enough to keep myself going, and most of that is stuff I've learnt from the help file. You just have to build up your knowledge and not just jump in the deep end and fall at the first hurdle.

I know this isnt entirely relevant, but I feel that created codes/scripts with a completer, (imo) is kinda cheating. Sure if somebody only wants to make a one-off script for their mIRC, then it would be helpful, but, i dont think it is entirely needed. If they want to do something simple, the help file should have all the info they need in it. If they want something complicated, they should go on a dedicated site for mIRC scripts, and look/request what they want.

Thats my thoughts anyway smile

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