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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: RoCk] #169645 26/01/07 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: RoCk
Quote:
Ideally mIRC should store data in the same way on all
versions of Windows... ...So yes, the change would affect all
users even those who do not use Vista.


What of those still using WinME/98/95 where there is no
'Documents and Settings\User\Application Data' directory?


you got a really good point here, though I would ignore the '95 :-P
there are still plenty of people who run WIN98 SE...


If it ain't broken, don't fix it!
Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: starbucks_mafia] #169650 26/01/07 03:27 PM
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Personally, doing the -r \path\mirc thing is not really a big deal, but it is a nuissance just the same.

One problem I see is how to install additional mIRCs. If the user can't choose where the data files are stored, then each new install of mIRC will overwrite the existing files in \application data\mirc. I still think an Advanced Options button is an ideal solution. Ordinary users can install to \program files\mirc & \application data\mirc without choosing a single path (default paths provided by the installer).

Maybe get rid of the automatic serial number idea, and leave it to the advanced user to choose the program and data folders manually. It seems quite simple to me (even to implement). When I upgrade/install each mIRC on my PC (I have 3 on this PC), I simply change the install dir to \mirc1 or \mirc2 or \mirc3. It would be easy to put that dir on the end of 2 paths instead of 1. And once the program is installed, instead of a whole data folder management dialog, there would be a textbox and a browse button to let you change the data folder location.

-genius_at_work

Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: FaiNT] #169651 26/01/07 03:36 PM
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Sounds like you want U3 compliance. I know it's been suggested before but I don't know if Khaled plans on implementing it. U3 compliance is better for your situation than mIRC in it's current form because right now mIRC still uses the registry, which means each time your Windows HDD crashes you're losing your registration info.

To be honest I haven't looked into U3 much and whether it'd require a separate version of mIRC or whatever, and this isn't really the thread to discuss it, but it seems like that would be an all-round better solution for the flash drive issue.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: starbucks_mafia] #169654 26/01/07 03:54 PM
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i have a .reg for the registration info thats no big deal, but i need ALL the data in the mirc's main folder, and that can still happen aslong as 6.22 and up will still read from mirc's main folder, and use mirc.ini to pick the folder that the setings run in, even have it change the working dir to that, then have the rest of mirc.ini there, so that way all i'd have to do is copy and paste the mirc.exe from c:\temp install folder to d:\mirc


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: RoCk] #169666 26/01/07 07:07 PM
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WinME/98/95 have an "Application Data" folder as well, however it is located in the Windows folder. There's a standard way for an application to find the "Application Data" folder in Windows, so from an application's point of view it works the same way in all Windows versions.

Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: Khaled] #169670 26/01/07 08:57 PM
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so, would this allow for a future possibility of identities (the change you've said you're going to make)? Im not asking for a "concrete yes", Im simply asking if by changing mirc, would it allow for the option to be more possible.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: Khaled] #169673 26/01/07 09:08 PM
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Will there be an identifier ($appdata ?) to point to point to the correct directory?
Although I guess we could just use $+($nofile($mircini),mysettings.ini)

Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: RoCk] #169674 26/01/07 09:09 PM
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gees, this one bug report has spawned quite a few suggestions laugh


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: RoCk] #169675 26/01/07 09:26 PM
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$mircdir already exists for this purpose.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: starbucks_mafia] #169676 26/01/07 09:39 PM
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makes me wonder if they meant the application data folder and not $mircdir. Even if they didnt mean that, I wonder if that would be something K does. *shrugs* Makes no difference to me, I never use any of those identifiers except for rarely


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: landonsandor] #169677 26/01/07 09:43 PM
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I mean $mircdir points to the location that mIRC stores it's settings, not necessarily the installation location (if you use the -r switch). As for the installation folder you've always got $mircexe.

In theory any script that makes correct use of $scriptdir, $mircdir, and $mircexe should still work correctly without modification.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: starbucks_mafia] #169678 26/01/07 09:53 PM
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learn something new everyday smile


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: starbucks_mafia] #169697 26/01/07 10:45 PM
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I prefer everything in ONE location ... the same location as the program it's part of. That is the ONE location I mean. Especially when half the programs out there only uninstall from the install folder and the windows folder... not from the user folder(s) and then I have to remember to go look through all of them and find the one(s) that are supposed to be uninstalled. Yes, that's an issue with the programs, but it's annoying and I doubt I'll see them change how they handle uninstalls. Also, unless something has changed, Application Data is a hidden folder that is, by default, hidden from view. That means that any novice user won't even know it is there or how to get to it. And for the ones that install into your My Documents folder, that's annoying because you end up with hundreds of folders where you should only have your documents. It makes finding a folder that YOU made for specific documents a pain if you have many things installed.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: Riamus2] #169723 27/01/07 05:12 AM
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(Might as well chime in here)

Moving the location of the data for mIRC to the Application Data folder will also make it impossible to use on flash disks. I too prefer the data to be left with the program. It also makes it much, much easier to have multiple copies, and easier to back everything up for mIRC when it's all contained in one folder. No need to search for where everything was stored then. To me, it seems cheap that Windows doesn't let a program write to the folder it's located in unless you are have elevated user privileges.

Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: Riamus2] #169724 27/01/07 05:18 AM
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Not to mention the same point over and over, but the method I suggested above would work for what you (and I) want too. By simply selecting the same folder for program and data files. This would duplicate the current behavior of mIRC.

If nothing else, I hope there is a command to specify the data location. Again, advanced users would have the option of choosing any folder they want.

-genius_at_work

Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: CyberBotX] #169734 27/01/07 03:25 PM
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Quote:
To me, it seems cheap that Windows doesn't let a program write to the folder it's located in unless you are have elevated user privileges.

- It's not cheap it's basic security. Someone with a limited user access account shouldn't be able to affect system-wide changes - that's just common sense. This change won't prevent you from using mIRC on a flash drive, you'll just have to add the -r switch to your mIRC shortcut. No big deal.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: Riamus2] #169736 27/01/07 03:32 PM
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And I prefer it the other way. Preferences aren't the issue here, good programming practices are.

I don't believe for a second that half the programs out there don't uninstall correctly, I'm not aware of any that don't. Besides that though, other programs' failures are not mIRC's nor the user folder's problem. I could name a dozen or more programs that don't remove everything from the Program Files folder, does that mean you'll now change your mind and decide that nothing should install there either?

I can't believe how many people are complaining about mIRC trying to follow proper practice with saving settings. I can't believe how it seems nobody else has been affected by the issue with LUAs. I guess this is why botnets and spam-zombies are dragging down the internet - nobody takes 5 seconds to follow appropriate security measures.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: starbucks_mafia] #169747 27/01/07 05:56 PM
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Quote:
I guess this is why botnets and spam-zombies are dragging down the internet - nobody takes 5 seconds to follow appropriate security measures.


Amen. The majority of my time is spent cleaning machines
for people that just keep going to the same porn sites and
downloading the same cute little freeware helper apps that
install 5 other apps when you install it. Windows security
(or lack of) and user ignorance is what allow things like
these to thrive. I'm glad to see these changes.

Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: starbucks_mafia] #169765 27/01/07 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: starbucks_mafia
- It's not cheap it's basic security. Someone with a limited user access account shouldn't be able to affect system-wide changes - that's just common sense.


Hm... a program that was installed by the admin and that writes to its own folder (no other locations) is not having "system-wide" effects. Whether you can write to the mIRC folder or to the user data folder, you're still changing/writing the exact same file(s).

I can see making it so that programs cannot write to OTHER folders besides user folders or the install folder. That prevents those "system-wide" changes and prevents a program from affecting other programs and so on. I see no need to prevent changes to a programs own files. If anything, prevent changes only to specific files (like EXE files) rather than INI files and TXT files and so on.


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Re: mIRC 6.21 Requires Elevated User Privileges [Re: Riamus2] #169768 27/01/07 07:50 PM
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As far as I'm aware, it is recommended practise for applications to -not- delete the individual user settings from the User "Application Data" folder when the application is uninstalled. One reason may be that since multiple users could have used mIRC, they would all have an "Application Data\mIRC" in their user folder. In order for the uninstaller to be consistent, it would have to scan all user folders and delete the "mIRC" settings folder for all users, which may not be possible.

I'm trying to think of a way to minimize the impact of this change. One possible method is to add a "portable" option to mirc.ini, which would toggle mIRC storing data in the mIRC install folder or in the "Application Data\mIRC" folder.

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