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nag-ware #168877 16/01/07 03:05 AM
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mark4 Offline OP
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I have been using mirc for a great number of years but until recently I have been using Linux almost 99% of my time. I have only recently reinstalled Mirc and while i appreciate it being good software and WORTH paying for i absolutely FLAT REFUSE to pay for nagware.

I am a registered user of the following

A386/D386 assembler by Eric J. Isaacson
The Interactive Disassembler (very expensive)
O&O Defrag
AVG Anti Virus (and you can get this for free!)


I am not a leech nor a thief, when I see good software I pay for it. Mirc is no longer good software and IMHO it should be blacklisted until the nag screen is permanantly removed. No doubt most of you will disagree with me but I strongly believe in paying for the hard work done by software developers but I am equally strongly opposed to...

1: Nag-Ware
2: Cripple-Ware
3: Whore-Ware (software that pigybacks spy/adware)

Sorry Khaled but you have lost one potential customer here.


Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168879 16/01/07 03:27 AM
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Lol. A box that only appears once when you start it up for all of about 5 seconds is hardly a problem if someone is too cheap to pay for such a good program. smile

Besides, if you're connected all of the time, you might see that box once every week or two... if that.


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Re: nag-ware [Re: Riamus2] #168880 16/01/07 03:33 AM
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I agree, Riamus, and if there was a vote taken, I think we'd probably find that the vast majority of mIRC users would agree with you, not to mention the fact that that box disappears completely once the program is properly registered.

The only time that box shows up on a consistant basis, that I've been able to determine, is if the time period has exceeded the 30 days that Khaled has stated...and even then, it only shows up when you start mIRC.

Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168881 16/01/07 04:18 AM
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OK, you agree with paying for good software but you wont pay for software because it expects you to pay for it? Right. That's your opinion and, contrary as it may be, it's yours to have.

What I don't get is why mIRC should be "blacklisted" (blacklisted by whom?) because you don't agree with its methods of asking you to pay for the software. If you don't want to pay for it, you don't have to; if you don't like the nagging, you don't have to use mIRC. mIRC's attitude towards paying is extremely lenient. Most shareware will stop working after 30 days, and of course most software has to be paid for up front. I think it's pretty damn ridiculous to come here and spout bullshit about your childish notions of "I'm not paying for this because it asked me to". How nice it must be to sit up on your pedestal and make your self-righteous speeches against software developers who dared to expect you to pay for what they've provided.

I'm done now, I've got to go write an angry letter to my electricity provider. I used £50 of electricity last month and now they've gone and sent me a letter saying they expect me to pay for it! Those sons of bitches...


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Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168883 16/01/07 04:23 AM
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landonsandor Offline
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two words for you mark:


your loss. If you want to black ball it, feel free to stop coming here too. Im not trying to force you out, but why would you remain on a message board about a program you have blackballed? Well, except to spout on and on about a screen that out of spite you wont remove. Once again I say, your loss


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Re: nag-ware [Re: landonsandor] #168887 16/01/07 06:14 AM
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mark4 Offline OP
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the nag screen appears every time you load it and will not let you continue until it has timed out. the only thing that would be more annoying would be if it blinked "Buy Me!, Buy Me!".

As for why im here, its not to cause trouble or insult/annoy YOU!

Simply put, its in the hope that the nag screen be removed.

Shareware is an honor system and i consider a nag screen to be a dishonerable way of encouraging me to spend my money. Its a deliberate annoyance that will only go away if I hand over the money. "If you dont give me money now im going to annoy the heck out of you".

There are those people who will NEVER pay for good software. The nag screen wont give them any problems at all because they have no honor and will simply hack/crack/patch the executable.

Then there are those who truely believe in rewarding good works and the nag screen NOT being there wont stop them from doing what they know to be right either. Therefore i say the nag screen is counter productive and should be removed.

When it is removed I will pay.

regards

Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168890 16/01/07 09:28 AM
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I agree with everyone else, but I dont understand the need for telling the world it should be blacklisted. I admit I use nix too and mirc is still by far the best irc chat prog out there, the nix stuff is really not in the same league. Long live mirc (and wine for us nixers).

Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168891 16/01/07 10:59 AM
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STING Offline
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Getting the prelogned nag screen already means you are using mIRC after the try-out period of 30 days. This should be enough time for you to decide to not longer use it or buy it. And well if you need more time to try it out, a nag screen is not that unreasonable.

Shareware is not a honor system.
It's simply a method for people to try out software first, before they decide if they want to keep on using it.


Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168896 16/01/07 01:43 PM
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hixxy Offline
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Due to the sheer number of posts on here asking why mIRC suddenly became shareware when the so called "nag screen" was added, I'd say that a lot of people didn't even realise it was shareware before. Now if you ask me it's a good thing that people are now aware they should pay for mIRC, which someone has put their time and effort into building.

If I remember rightly, the screen only disables the "continue" button for a few seconds after your 30 day trial has run out (or when it nearly has). Up until then it's more like a splash screen of sorts with credits written on it, hardly a nag.

I don't see the problem myself..

Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168900 16/01/07 03:30 PM
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If a freely available piece of software doesn't ask you to pay ('nag-ware'), or disable features/stop working ('cripleware'), or include piggyback software ('whoreware'), then it can hardly be considered shareware. It would be more like 'donateware'. If there is no incentive to pay, then why would anyone do it? "Moral people", you say? Well guess what.. there aren't that many of those around.

Take this scenario for example: A car dealership has a promotional deal going. You can come into the showroom, choose any vehicle you like, and drive it away without paying a dime, no strings attached. So you go in, choose a brand new Porsche Carrera, climb into the car, fire up the engine and drive off. Would you get out your wallet and pay for the car? I kind of doubt it. What if everytime you started the car, a recording blasted out of the speakers suggesting that you pay for the car if you feel like it? What if the steering wheel fell off after exactly 15 days? What if a salesman from the store always sat in the passenger seat trying to sell you additional cars? Would you be more inclined to pay for the car, or would you take it back to the dealership? That is how shareware works. If none of those annoyances were present, the car would be free (though you would be welcome to donate to the factory workers who built the car).

You said that you bought AVG Pro. Sure you can get it for free, but I know for a fact that AVG free is 'cripleware'. Several features are disabled/removed from the free version, and are only available if you purchase the professional version.

-genius_at_work

Re: nag-ware [Re: starbucks_mafia] #168903 16/01/07 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: starbucks_mafia

I'm done now, I've got to go write an angry letter to my electricity provider. I used £50 of electricity last month and now they've gone and sent me a letter saying they expect me to pay for it! Those sons of bitches...


Haha, well said.

I hold my hands out. I've been using mIRC for a good 4 years now and have not yet paid for it simply because i dont have the money for it and when i do mIRC doesnt pop in to mind.
I have seen Khaleds face pop up countless of times over the last few years and i always thought its a small inconvenience to pay for a free great service.

On that notice i have never cracked mIRC either pure out of respect to the author.


$maybe
Re: nag-ware [Re: Mpdreamz] #168908 16/01/07 06:10 PM
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mark4 Offline OP
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ok, one at a time smile

Riamus2: Honest people don't continue to use it and ignore the nag screen as you are suggesting. They either pay up or uninstall. I uninstalled.

starbucks_mafia: Your tone is somewhat abusive and it has nothing to do with not paying because it expects me to. I pay for a lot more software than previously stated. My issue is not with the application but with its marketing methods (see below).

landonsandor: It isn't spite, its principal.

ultraviolent: Yes mirc is the best but X-Chat is a close second. I can even download the sources to the windows version, remove the bit that nags/breaks the application after 30 days and then recompile and redistribute it as freeware under the terms of the GPL. It being shareware is also perfectly legal though i think the original authors deserve all the credits : )

STING: It is an honor system, there is nothing about shareware other than a persons conscience that prevents them from stealing the software. Conscience implies honor. I uninstalled.

hixxy: How many of the people who have been "woken up" have paid for the software (percentage wise?).

genius_at_work: Your arguement is (forgive the flame) utterly moronic. I can guarantee that If car salesmen started using NAG methods they would very quicly become unemployed. A car manufacturer will very often offer cars for free. Place name in bucket if you are picked this brand new limited edition fully maxed out supercar is yours.

If said car came with a "buy me now, buy me now" over the radio every time you started the car or had a salesman in the passenger seat trying to sell you another car you would probably return the car (or have the crack/patch applied : )

Car salesmen allow you to test drive a car to decide if you like it or not. This is similar to the shareware system except you cant steal the car as easily : )

Also, AVG is not crippleware, those features are not present in the free edition not crippled in it. A good example of crippleware would be an editor that only allowed you to type in one page of text and would not allow you to save it or print it. This effectivly makes the software totally useless to the user. The missing features in AVG free do not inhibit you from detecting OR removing viruses from your system.

Now, Had you pointed out that IDA Pro is crippleware you would be correct yet as previously stated I am a registered user thereof. I would not be except I needed it for work and if im going to use it im going to pay for it not steal it.

Mpdreamz: If you cant pay for it you should uninstall it. You should have uninstalled it after 30 days!

--

mIRC may be the best IRC client avaiable for ANY operating system and is not very expensive but until the nag screen is removed i will pay for it. That will probably not happen any time between now and the time the sun expires so not only is it my loss but the authors.

regards..
Mark



Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168911 16/01/07 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Shareware is an honor system and i consider a nag screen to be a dishonerable way of encouraging me to spend my money.


I disagree, while it may be considered nagware to you, I think it is the author's right to do as (s)he pleases with their software and if a nag screen is there as a gentle reminder, it doesnt hurt anything


Quote:
Its a deliberate annoyance that will only go away if I hand over the money. "If you dont give me money now im going to annoy the heck out of you".


I dont know if I agree with this.

Quote:
There are those people who will NEVER pay for good software. The nag screen wont give them any problems at all because they have no honor and will simply hack/crack/patch the executable.


No arguements there

Quote:
When it is removed I will pay.


See, but the way I see it is like this:

"Once you satisfy my need, I'll pay."

But the thing is, it already satisfied your need - you've already proven it. You're then paying for a screen to be removed and NOT the program itself. It's ok if you don't agree with me, you don't have to smile That's what makes the world great


Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it
Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168912 16/01/07 07:10 PM
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Mpdreamz Offline
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Originally Posted By: mark4

Mpdreamz: If you cant pay for it you should uninstall it. You should have uninstalled it after 30 days!


Why should i uninstall it ?
Quote:

Registration - mIRC is a shareware program. This system of distributing programs, as shareware, shows the true spirit of the Internet. You can download mIRC for free and give it a try. If during or after the 30 days evalution period you decide to continue to use mIRC, you're asked to pay a small registration fee of $20. This will allow Khaled, mIRC's author, to go on developing and supporting mIRC with the same spirit and enthousiasm as he has shown in the past 6 years.

The bolded bit is up for discussion. mIRC still allows me to use it so why shouldnt I ? If Khaled truely didnt want me to use it mIRC would cease to work after 30 days. I think Khaled is aware that alot of people take longer to decide and frankly mIRC would lose alot of users if it ceased to work after 30 days.

That said i do have the desire to pay for it and will do so as soon as i see fit.


$maybe
Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168913 16/01/07 07:29 PM
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hixxy Offline
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Originally Posted By: mark4
hixxy: How many of the people who have been "woken up" have paid for the software (percentage wise?).


Not a huge amount I'd expect, but 3 or more would probably pay for his weekly shopping. 10 or more the bills.. 50 or more all expenses + treats. To quote Tesco.. every little helps.

Not to mention he regularly donates to charity.

Re: nag-ware [Re: hixxy] #168914 16/01/07 07:33 PM
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Mpdreamz Offline
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from http://www.mircscripts.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=115
Quote:

The charity appeal is over!

2,301 people registered mIRC between November 6th and December 6th and raised a total of $46,020 (USD) - thanks to those who registered Smile

Regards,


I dont think Khaleds doing to bad for himself and good for him i say.


$maybe
Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168915 16/01/07 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: mark4

Riamus2: Honest people don't continue to use it and ignore the nag screen as you are suggesting. They either pay up or uninstall. I uninstalled.


What're you basing that on? I still get the nag screen and it doesn't bother me, and so do a lot of my friends.


What do you do at the end of the world? Are you busy? Will you save us?
Re: nag-ware [Re: Jigsy] #168916 16/01/07 07:56 PM
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hixxy Offline
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He's saying honest people don't continue to use it, which is true.

Re: nag-ware [Re: hixxy] #168925 16/01/07 10:19 PM
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Ah. Their loss I suppose.


What do you do at the end of the world? Are you busy? Will you save us?
Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168933 17/01/07 12:12 AM
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mark4 Offline OP
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I rest my case about dishonorable people not paying even with the nag screen present.

An alternative to the nag screen would be to disable the custom title bar and place a "Unpaid Shareware Version" in the title. This would then be present 100% of the time and would not be a NAG!

It wouldn't force you to wait to get through the door but would still be a reminder to HONEST people that they should pay!

I do not begrudge the author his due and if he becomes a millionaire due to his efforts then heck ya... more power to him!

A billboard is not a nag, it informs people about a product. People who might otherwise never have known you could buy "super snake oil wonder skin treatment" at their local drug store. I believe the locked title bar would get through to more people than the nag screen.

Anyway, Ive said my two bits worth smile

Regards
Mark

Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168934 17/01/07 12:16 AM
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At least he didn't make it like Snak, where you have 15m of unregistered chatting time before the application closes.


What do you do at the end of the world? Are you busy? Will you save us?
Re: nag-ware [Re: Jigsy] #168944 17/01/07 01:57 AM
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I've never heard of Snak before this, but if I found a program that closed after 15 minutes without being registered, that program would probably be uninstalled within an additional 15 seconds.

Re: nag-ware [Re: RusselB] #168956 17/01/07 08:24 AM
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It's for Mac.


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Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168961 17/01/07 01:44 PM
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I completely agree with you about the nag screen, Mark4. However, I wouldn't feel like I should be "honest" when it comes to continue using mIRC or not. To each his own, I guess.


* cold edits his posts 24/7
Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #168967 17/01/07 02:36 PM
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If you uninstalled, then don't complain. Simple as that. smile

Btw, a titlebar being disabled would make it crippleware as you could not easily see your modes or the channel topics or anything else that may be present in your titlebar without going out of your way to find them in other places.

mIRC never says you are not allowed to use it if you never register it. As such, you don't have to be dishonest to keep using it.


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Re: nag-ware [Re: Riamus2] #169000 18/01/07 12:47 AM
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Not to do with mIRC, but in relation to the nag-ware topic, I think that the free software available from dqfree.com (looking specifically at their 100% Free Euchre and 100% Free Five Hundred games) have a far more naggy (if that's a word) pop-up. It shows up after about every 4 or 5 hands in a game.

Personally, I don't mind the free versions, but I don't like them enough to upgrade to the paid versions. In addition to the nag screen, there are a number of options that are selectable, but not usable in the free version, and if you try to use them, you get another "nag" screen stating that the item you tried to use is only available in the Pro versions.

Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #169374 22/01/07 10:48 AM
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At my age it would be considered fair to claim that you've just about seen it all but seriously I cannot believe my eyes at the moment. Mark, you sound like every parent's nightmare of a child and I feel sorry for everyone that falls victim to your petulant and hypocritic perorations.

1. Whilst it has been said several times, I will repeat it as I agree with it, and more importantly, the principles behind it: mIRC operates forever, registered or not.

2. mIRC's so-called nag screen is not disruptive and does not even stop the application starting automatically.

3. mIRC has ALWAYS had a nag screen, the only difference being that it is now a dialogue instead of a web page and that it does appear during the free period as well as after the date of expiry.

4. Once again it's been said but worthy of another mention because you seem to fail to see the point relating to the principles of shareware: Computer programmes are issued as shareware because the author wants users to have the option of try before buy. No-where have I ever seen a shareware licence indicate that a user is entitled to a free-for-all before coughing up $20.00 (read: playlunch money) for a licence.

5. Your honesty in buying a licence would mean that the nag screen disappears forever, even if you reload your machine and even if you buy a new machine and load the latest version of Windows and mIRC on it. mIRC probably offers the most generous licence conditions in that respect.

The bottom line here is that your $20.00 would be buying the software you refer to as 'worth paying for' rather than the little dialogue you have been rabbiting on about.


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Re: nag-ware [Re: mark4] #185150 05/09/07 08:30 PM
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software should be free. the only reason i still use mIRC after those 30 days (i think i'm on day 992 or something like that) is because the compatibility. if it wasn't that i'd use Vortec IRC (Which i think has a decent interface). But that's just my opinion.

Re: nag-ware [Re: Yamato] #185152 05/09/07 08:48 PM
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Quote:
software should be free.

- I'm curious to know why you think that. Do you think all products and services should be free? If not, why do you think software is any different from every other product in the world? It seems a lot of people who don't develop software think it should be free, while they'd never dream of providing services in their chosen profession without charge.


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Re: nag-ware [Re: Yamato] #185159 05/09/07 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Yamato
the only reason i still use mIRC after those 30 days (i think i'm on day 992 or something like that) is because the compatibility.

It's times like these that I wish there was a way to actually enforce the revoking of people rights to use software; the fact that you're so blatantly proud of being that selfish is just disgusting. Khaled put in 10 years of his blood, sweat and tears into this product and only asks for a negligible fee, and you're throwing it right into his face. I'm assuming you actually do, but why is it okay for you to pay a chef to cook you food at a restaurant, but it's apparently not okay for you to pay for any software? Logic like that is childish and immature.


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