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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14823 14/03/03 03:44 AM
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vcv Offline
Babel fish
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No, you can not.

Do not spread lies.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14824 14/03/03 06:49 AM
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Hoopy frood
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Yes you can. I know of several people, for example, that have been infected by a trojan in JPG files. Work that out.

And if you want to call me a liar come to Sydney and say it my face. :tongue:


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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14825 14/03/03 07:03 AM
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There are 2 possibilites I can think of:

1. I read a page on this once, can't remember the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of...

"Trojans normally come in files that are run, not read, but if there is a SERIOUS problem (very unlikely) with the program that is reading a file then it might allow malicious code to be executed."

^No idea if that is true, but sounds plausible (even if incredibly unlikely).

2. I would expect that if you know several people who have been infected by JPGs, then the majority would have opened "coolpicture.jpg.exe" with "Hide extensions for known file types" on in Windows (that is the default). If that was the case then in Explorer the file would have shown as just "coolpicture.jpg" and looked completely harmless.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14826 14/03/03 07:28 AM
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I would expect that if you know several people who have been infected by JPGs, then the majority would have opened "coolpicture.jpg.exe"

Yep, that happens alot, not in this particular case though.

My main point expressed to vcv is that because he hasn't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I remember him saying once (on the old forum) that he doesn't bother with AV software. That's okay, it's his machine, though it's a signal to me that he pays little attention all-round to virus issues. If this is the case then he's hardly an authority on it. And calling someone a liar based on one's personal view is 'Just not cricket'.


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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14827 14/03/03 02:44 PM
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Yes..possible.. through Internet Explorer. Not all file types are exploitable though.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14828 14/03/03 04:34 PM
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Quote:
I know of several people, for example, that have been infected by a trojan in JPG files.


JPG's themselves are exploitable. But as far as I know there has never been any record of a virus 'in the wild' which can do this. Currently the only known virus with that capability is Perrun, which was created by AV developers as a 'proof of concept'. More likely the people you're referring to were infected elsewhere and the virus laid dormant for some time.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14829 14/03/03 05:00 PM
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JPG's themselves are exploitable. But as far as I know there has never been any record of a virus 'in the wild' which can do this.

There is and not limited to JPG. The thing is though it is not common and the simple reason for that is that there are far easier and more productive (for want of a better term) ways of nailing people. To many it is much more fun to visualise the damage one can do and the easiest way to achieve that is to distribute trojans that work from mIRC or distribute a dedicated DDoS bot, many of which are bigger than mIRC, 2MB +, and extremely powerful war machines at that.

As an example and without naming the programme, I know of a DDoS bot that can pick and choose from 1000's of nicks, user ID's and 'full names', which are also at randomly variable lengths. The same thing can also hunt down any available proxies it can find anywhere in the world and use such proxies to join IRC networks. And this animal doesn't need to sit in a channel either, there is only one copy needed. Why waste time trying to offload bad pics when you can do it this way and watch it working?


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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14830 14/03/03 07:18 PM
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There is a big flaw in your reasoning: a great many of those seeking things to download dont use common sense and arent very puter literate, and many havent much of a clue the ways they can be subject to virii/trojans/backdoors/exploits or what those things are capable of. They may not even be aware of what "common sense" involves in this case.
For that matter, i wonder how many users, including those those opening their puters to filesharing, have taken steps to protect everything else they have, like documents with tax info, credit card/financial info, social security numbers etc from prying eyes.

It isnt up to me to judge what's legal/illegal or to split hairs by saying that since i can tape a tv show and look at it later (in spite of any fine print that says im not allowed to reproduce it) that its therefore ok to share it with a few hundred strangers online. The bottom line for me is that there is just too much inherent danger in rampant downloading. mIRC was written as a chat client and wasnt intended to be hit and run file sharing central so im not here to help someone find files (most of which are deemed illegal to share by their creators) that put them at risk of exploitation.


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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14831 14/03/03 09:30 PM
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There is no flaw. I said anyone who is computer literate (our definitions may differ here.. what I intended probably is more-so "geeks" than anything.. my mistake for not being more clear) should be able to tell the difference.

There is a danger, yes... but if you know what you are doing, the danger is very very minimal, if any.

And to be honest.. I have downloaded a few tv episodes myself from shows I missed.. and I know how and where to get what I want off IRC. I have NEVER.. EVER.. run across a large known channel that servers illegal content and had an official bot that had an infected file. Furthermore, none of my friends have either. Downloading off IRC via larger known channels for stuff like movies is safer than downloading off KaZaA, IMHO. Altough it is still not recommended if you are unfamiliar with it.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14832 14/03/03 10:49 PM
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"... if you know what you are doing..."

My point was that a very high % of ppl asking where to d/l don't know what they are doing in this regard. Perhaps i am assuming too much, but when they say:
I'm new, my friend said...
I dont understand mIRC/IRC, but how do i find...
whats a trigger...
my friend said its a safe place to ...
oh, i didnt know i could get a virus...
not to mention the vast number of infected users who need help, then i tend to think they arent up with the dangers, how to secure their puters, or what to look for/beware of.

So you are one of the lucky/more careful ones who hasnt gotten infected so far. Regardless of how knowledgable/lucky you are, and others who ask may be, that certainly doesnt warrant this forum helping anyone who asks how to find illegal things to download, for the obvious reasons. And i agree that places like kaaza etc are far from safe as well.


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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14833 15/03/03 12:06 AM
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Oh.. I would never help anyone find that stuff on here, and hope no one else would either.

My point is simply that it's not as dangerous was some people insist.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14834 15/03/03 12:20 AM
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Don't you think that's giving the wrong message though? Surely it's better to educate people before they start thinking they can download anything and everything. Personally, I'd rather be called paranoid than get caught out like that.


Never compare yourself to others - they're more screwed up than you think.
Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14835 15/03/03 12:44 AM
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What vcv actually meant by this...

There is a danger, yes... but if you know what you are doing, the danger is very very minimal, if any.

...means (by my interpretation) that if you are complacent then there's nothing to worry about. Obviously he's put himself in a class above everyone else here tonight, or tried to anyway.


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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14836 15/03/03 02:00 AM
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Don't know where you got that from.. but whatever.

If me being able to differentiate between valid files and virii makes arrogant and complacent.. then so be it.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14837 15/03/03 07:16 AM
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Here's my expanded opinion.
It's okay to download videos provided the following.
Videos being t.v. episodes and movies.

1) It's done on a broadcast channel, meaning the lower stations. Anyone can basically get these channels.
2) The commercials aren't removed, out of respect for their right to advertise for compensation of showing it for 'free' basically.

Or if it's NOT ever shown on television anymore in your area, on any of the possible channels you can order, AND it's NOT out on video in stores availible to you, then I think this situation is okay provided commercials are left in. This situation is if someone decided to record it on an upper cable channel, and decides to put it out for all to download if the show is off the air and not in stores.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14838 15/03/03 09:58 AM
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Maybe, maybe not. We all know that most people are downloading illegal stuff i.e. brand new movies. These are the people that would be horrified if you tried to actually have a conversation with them on irc. Assuming they were anywhere near their puters while online.


Never compare yourself to others - they're more screwed up than you think.
Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14839 15/03/03 02:24 PM
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These are the people that would be horrified if you tried to actually have a conversation with them on irc.

Very true. Alot of people forget about the 'set and forget' nature of fserves. The biggest fruad of all however is when a network boasts about getting past 100,000 users they have the cheek to pass them off as bona-fide chatters. It's a shame in many ways.


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Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14840 16/03/03 02:21 AM
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But downloading illegal things like that is the same as going to a store, and stealing the actual movie for example.

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14841 16/03/03 06:28 AM
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Downloading things illegally is pretty much the same thing as copying a cd or a tape be it audio or video and giving it to a friend. I think that no matter if we tell people that its illegal and may be hazardous to your computers, its still going to continue. I think that everyone has given good and bad examples of downloading and the aspects of it. I think that this thread is gonna continue with everyone expressing their views on it and everyone is back to square one.

What I'm getting at is everyone here has at least downloaded something at least once...legal or not and that if someone is gonna do it, at least be cautious about it and not download everything they see and that mIRC may or may not be a good idea to use for downloading. Everyone here has their own views on it i guess...I think that may be it for me on this thread because I am one of those people that download things for me as well as things that aren't in stores.

I've heard people say that they tape things off of tv, with or without the commercials, people download those episodes and put them to disc, with or without commercials....hell I got just about every thundercats episode saved to disc because they don't air on tv anymore and that I have yet to find a dvd or vhs. It was just one of my favorite cartoons when I was younger. I think it just depends on the situation...

Re: can anyone tell me where can I find #14842 16/03/03 10:42 AM
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I remember about fifteen years ago the TV networks here (In AU) wanted to trial a telly that would lock onto the currently watched channel and volume setting when ads are played. The idea worked because it relied on a special signal broadcast during breaks. Shame that Joe Average threatened to refrain from buying new sets if the idea was implemented.

After that the video and broadcasting industry went back to fighting over which video format was better, Beta or VHS. Beta produced the better picture but was twice the price of VHS. VHS won the battle but is now losing the war to DVD. Beta, in a professional level digital format lives on as a broadcasting standard only. The show goes on...

As for MP3's and also the ability to rip CD's the Australian Commonwealth Government has for a long time been leaned on by record companies to add a supertax to blank tapes and CD's which would fund the assumed losses inherited by them due to the loss of revenue from album sales. The Government has rejected the idea several times sothere is a good chance this tax will never happen.

It's a tough call. On the labels of all music and movie media it says something like "No copying of this without express permission of the publisher" yet copyright laws permit one to make a backup copy for personal use. The same applies to software. I am unsure of the same provisions apply to being able to tape television programmes though. Then again, unless you are raided by the coppers, no-one is ever going to find out.


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