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War #135365 10/11/05 08:31 PM
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raZOR Offline OP
Hoopy frood
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i remember that like 2-3 years in past there were many
war scripts out there with some cute tools for flooding
that were good only if target used 56k modem or ISDN.

but do those tools present a threat to todays users ?

since dsl services have expanded quite much.
i myself have quite bad dsl speed (384/64) but
its ok i guess... but more advanced countries
like sweden, denmark, finland, norway etc...

have 40 - 100 Mbit connections for normal user

and those less advanced have from 256k - 1.5 Mbit conn's.

so does actually exist such big packet to send and flood such connections, or it is quite safe today... somehow... ?


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Re: War #135366 10/11/05 08:40 PM
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Rounin Offline
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Actually, they do exist. What people do is create or use worms to infect large quantities of computers - several hundred, for instance - and remote-control those via IRC. If all those computers connect to an IRC server at once, or start pinging someone, they risk not being able to use the Internet for a while. This is called DDoS - Distributed Denial of Service.

Re: War #135367 10/11/05 08:42 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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40-100mbit for normal users? That doesn't sound correct, though I've never looked into speeds abroad. In the US, standard broadband speeds go up to around 8mbit. You can go higher but it's not available for residential unless there are cable/dsl that go higher that I've not seen yet.

The highest T "line" speed is with the T4, which maxes at about 268mbit/s. Below that, T3 maxes at about 45mbit/s. There are OC "lines" above the T4 speeds, but they are definitely not residential options.

Cable/DSL don't use the speeds that T "lines" use, but they are still under 10mbit as far as I've seen. Definitely not 40-100mbit. In fact, I believe I saw an article about DSL in the UK or somewhere that talked about how 8mbit is about as fast as is possible through DSL until technology changes.

Anyhow, perhaps you can give information on what speeds are available? I'd be interested in seeing.

But, as far as DOS'ing someone, it's much more difficult, but with enough attacks (DDOS), it is still possible. War scripts are junk anyhow.


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Re: War #135368 10/11/05 09:01 PM
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raZOR Offline OP
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reply to both:

i know for DoS or DDoS
but if network has good protection, like QuakeNet,
i think that max users allowed are 4 by same ip
thus its harder to flood very much...
especially if someone has good download connection 512k-1.5 Mbit

as for inet speeds, i know that there are no DSL speed that gives above 8 Mbit, but i know seeing people (rich kids) talk about high speeds for home use, and i even heard from
friend 1 year ago that in Nehterlands goverment voted
that they should bring OC lines to every house like you have phone line now... so its quite growing up with inet in north there...

we in worse countries on balcan get ripped off for some shitty conections...

i mean i know that some dude with 2/2 Mbit can surelly wipe me out, but does "war" between hight connections can be
acomplished?

i mean you cant ping someone with packet of 10 MB every 1 ms :P

its different that as stated above by Rounin, that many bots start trash 1 user... thats then more like invasion, but 1 on 1 is.. pointless ?


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Re: War #135369 10/11/05 09:32 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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No, one person isn't going to DoS you. But, most attacks anymore are through DDoS. And that can still be done by one person using a botnet. It's really only ever going to be a problem if you make someone who knows how to do it mad at you. The chance of someone randomly targeting you is so minimal as to appear as if it won't ever happen. Usually people target companies or servers rather than individuals.

OC lines in every home in the Netherlands????? I want to move there!! laugh

OC-3 == 155mbit
OC-9 == 467mbit
OC-12 == 622mbit
OC-24 == 1.24gbit
OC-36 == 1.87gbit
.
.
.
OC-255 == 13.27gbit

I skipped some just since it wasn't really necessary to put the information. Anyhow, I'm sure they are looking at the OC-3 connection... but even that would be an awesome connection to have. I'd love to get the OC-255 in my house, though. Of course, if I did, I think I'd have to have about 500TB+ of hard drive space to make it worthwhile. laugh

Btw, the speeds I listed are from: http://www.csgnetwork.com/bandwidth.html

Take a look if you like. I love the 0bps speed description!!! laugh


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Re: War #135370 10/11/05 09:52 PM
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raZOR Offline OP
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bringing oc to home doesnt surprise me much, since geant streches in few ways thru eu, so for rich countries isnt that big deal to get high speed inet...

there was also some testing in england i think using
internet thru electric current instead phone lines
but... its still in testing


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Re: War #135371 10/11/05 11:06 PM
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Doqnach Offline
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there was the idea a few times... and in the city of nuenen they are running tests for it but at this time it's way to expensive to do this yet...

there are college networks where you can get very nice speeds though... but that's only if you study at that university or rent one of their buildings.

still, this is far from happening in the NL ;-]
but I would very much welcome it :-P

DSL speeds here go as high as 20Mbit now, with ADSL2+.
though that speed isn't guaranteed or anything... it's theoretic max


If it ain't broken, don't fix it!
Re: War #135372 11/11/05 12:34 AM
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i really cant see or understand what is so expencive and complex in such things ???

all that country needs to do is to put a little effort and place underground oc's like they did with phones and make some
bigger nodes that lead to main nodes which connects to geant. and woila you got mega speed inet !

as far as i know internet is not owned by no1 and only thing that people need to pay is linkline to geant network which theoretically should be free...

*sigh*


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Re: War #135373 11/11/05 03:15 AM
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any ideas on how expensive it is to dig up half the country?
do you know how many kilometers of cable are in the ground already?

any ideas on how much the stuff costs?

I can't name figures but I know it's ALOT!

so I don't find it strange they don't hook up everyone with fibreoptics


the only (almost) 'free' bandwidth usage is between ISP's in Internet eXchanges (like AMS IX for the NL).
many ISP's have their central nodes there and this way they can link up to other ISP's there without having to use external networks which saves alot of cash.
usually they agree on using eachothers networks without shoving money but only agreeing upon it for both sides

there is no such thing as free bandwidth :-P
there's always someone who needs to pay for the hardware + maintanence


If it ain't broken, don't fix it!
Re: War #135374 11/11/05 12:07 PM
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Quote:

any ideas on how expensive it is to dig up half the country?
do you know how many kilometers of cable are in the ground already?


i think that people already paid all that with taxes
so it is not something that you NEED to pay,
it is something that you ALREADY payed

greed is bad


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Re: War #135375 11/11/05 04:13 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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Taxes cover a LOT of other things. If the government wants to do something extra (such as digging up half the country), they need to bring in more money to do so. That means increased taxes. Or, they need to only do a small amount each year. Excavation is expensive. You also have to purchase all the new cable that will handle the bandwidth.

In reality, who really needs hundreds of mbit per second? Unless you're downloading something you shouldn't be, a 10mbit connection (or for that matter, a 3mbit connection) is perfectly fine. With a 10mbit connection, you can download 75MB per minute. How many legitimate downloads are more than that? Game demos might be largerm, but even if the demo was 300MB, it would only take 4 minutes to download. Is that really all that much time? laugh


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Re: War #135376 11/11/05 06:03 PM
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personally 1 mbit connections is fine by me
coz i lived too long on crappy 50k modem

but if you look at THOSE countries, their standard isnt 56k,ISDN and low speed DSL anymore, but ultra speed cables and who knows what...


its all about standard :tongue:
look at korea and china and japan
my friend was in korea i think, this year and
he enjoyed in mega speed... he said that he had such speed
that 400 MB took him 1 minute to download...


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Re: War #135377 11/11/05 06:06 PM
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So around 53mbit... probably 45mbit and he's off by 5-10 seconds or so. smile

Again, is that extra speed really necessary for legitimate downloading?


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Re: War #135378 11/11/05 06:30 PM
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raZOR Offline OP
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Quote:

Again, is that extra speed really necessary for legitimate downloading?


same question aplies for computers.
is todays "normal" speed:

cpu 2.5-3 GHz
mem 512 RAM
hdd: 120+ GB

really necessary for office job type people and normal
user at home ?

no it is not necessary because standard home user, and geek
at office desk, needs max

cpu: 1.8-2Ghz
mem: 256 RAM
hdd: 40 GB MAX !

but if i CAN get it, and if it is standard (depends on country), then why not ?

Last edited by raZOR; 11/11/05 06:32 PM.

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Re: War #135379 11/11/05 07:10 PM
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That is a little different. There are legitimate uses for a faster computer and larger hard drive. With fast downloads, there is little you need to download that is that large and is LEGAL to download. With a fast computer, it is perfectly legal to buy and play a LOT of games. I have over 400GB of hard drive space and I use it. I never uninstall games because I may eventually want to play it again without taking time to reinstall it. I have so many game CDs, it's rediculous. laugh Also, many games need faster computers. So, there is a legitimate use for a faster computer.

Now, as far as what a non-gamer needs (also a non-graphics designer and non-CAD person), you are correct that they do not need such a fast computer. A typical person in that category could get by perfectly well on a:

CPU: 1GHz
RAM: 256MB
Hard Drive: 20GB
Sound: Onboard
Video: Onboard

And, if XP isn't desired, the RAM can drop to 128MB. For someone in that category I listed, this is PLENTY. They really could get by with half that, but I'm offering a solution that offers quicker boot times and loading times for not really that much more. Of course, upgrading the hard drive to 40GB wouldn't be much more either.

But, that system wouldn't work well at all for modern gaming. Onboard anything in modern gaming is a bad option. Anything under 512MB 333MHz memory isn't good either (1GB 400MHz is better... just giving minimums). Also, a CPU should be 2GHz minimum for modern gaming (personally, I stand by AMD). And, hard drive space depends on how many programs/games you want installed at any given time. I'd say a modern gamer should have a minimum 120GB hard drive, though 80GB will be fine for a more casual gamer.


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Re: War #135380 11/11/05 07:13 PM
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Mentality Offline
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The "maximum" requirements you suggested are the "minimum" requirements specified on half the games I own. Take Half Life 2's minimum requirements for example:

1.2Ghz
256MB RAM
4.5GB

Plus, RAM and harddrive capacity deal with the entire computer's ability to process different programs, different activities (possibly with different users), and so forth. Yes, HL2 might only take up 4.5GB, but when that is coupled with several other high-resource games, you soon get 20GB. Then (as with my computer) perhaps iTunes/WMP has 5GB of music, not to mention the space the OS takes up itself on the advertised HD space.

You are right, people like to have more than they need. However, there is a HUGE difference between having 120GB when you only need 60GB, and having a T3 connection when you only need 3Mbps.

I have a 3MBps connection, and it easily gets me through music/music video downloads, streaming video content (entire TV programs) and a little online gaming (on top of the amount of times I refresh this forum everyday!). Quite simply, it's a matter of supply and demand rather than competing with other countries. Yes, by today's standards a 1Mb connection could be seen as the lower end of the scale for broadband, but that doesn't mean OC connections should be considered for commercial users.

Not every country is the same. Please, feel free to investigate the budget and politics of the United Kingdom and tell me where we have a few billion pounds to spare to fell trees, disturb villages and increase traffic so Joe Bloggs can talk faster on MSN Messenger and make better use of Kazaa smirk

Regards,


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Re: War #135381 11/11/05 09:21 PM
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i dont think i will add anything more...
i gave my thoughts on last reply, and topic kinda
loses its meaning :tongue:

Last edited by raZOR; 11/11/05 09:22 PM.

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