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Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123277
27/06/05 08:27 PM
27/06/05 08:27 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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Point taken, and yet mIRC is still the most widely used and liked IRC client. If it was that far behind the times, people would not still be using it so much. There are other clients with these types of features (you can use Trillian for most of them if you wanted, for one example). Yet, people prefer mIRC. That is pretty good support for showing that mIRC is better than all these other clients that add in all this eye candy instead of useful features, don't you think?

As far as updates, very few companies are going to guarantee you many new versions each year.


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Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123278
27/06/05 09:20 PM
27/06/05 09:20 PM
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UK
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tomalak16 Offline
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If Trillian focused on solely developing its IRC support to compete at mIRC's level, it would be a VERY tempting alternative.

As it is, the lack of scripting and other such goodies contribute more to its reduced stake in the market than the state of its graphical interface ever will.

As for updates -- most modern development programmes run far faster than mIRC. You can *certainly* expect more than a couple of updates per year -- especially if the application has not changed considerably for several versions.


<Ingo> I can't uninstall it, there seems to be some kind of "Uninstall Shield"
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123279
27/06/05 11:16 PM
27/06/05 11:16 PM
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landonsandor Offline
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(disclaimer - not trying to be an assault to the original poster)

I hate to say this (general comment) but if you want something LONG overdue, let's look at requests for an option and two (while easily scriptable) that far surpasses Video/Voice in requests over the years are:

1) Let us (without scripting) easily change the nickname brackets
2) Let us use colors in timestamps

Both of those have been requested many more times than V/V has been so if anything is "long overdue" it would be those. I wont argue people want V/V, but long overdue? Naaa, I think not. Hell, even the emoticon/gramlin/smilies have been suggested more than V/V has and Id even buy that as "long overdue".

I WONT argue YOUR want for them as many people do it these days; I use them myself, but would I want them in mirc? I dont think so. It goes back to the discussion of the IM client vs the IRC client ages ago and I pointed out (off of somebody else's pointing out) that mirc is NOT an IM client nor is an IM client an IRC client. I dont remember where I found it, but it was on microsoft's own website. Why is this important? Because they have an IM program not an IRC program which has video/voice. The big thing is people want mirc to evolve and Im all about that, but NOT at the expense of mirc turning into the next "Crayola Chat Interface" that YIM, AIM, and MSN are - you know, the colorful pretty looking (minus that damned ad stuff) IM programs that have become more and more popular over the years.

Bottom line is, would people use the feature? Sure. Is it a valid suggestion? Absolutely. Should it be in mirc? Im sorry but I have to disagree with you tho I appreciate your differing opinion on the matter and ultimately will leave it up to "Big K" to decide what to do.


Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123280
28/06/05 04:49 AM
28/06/05 04:49 AM
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clutz1572 Offline
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you said it all pretty much in a nutshell landonsandor! can't argue with that....

Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123281
28/06/05 05:40 AM
28/06/05 05:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Sweden
Exterus Offline
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Video and audio support is not necessary. In fact, it would ruin mirc/irc. There are other kinds of chat systems where one can chat via webcam or mic, irc was never intended for such purposes. It's as simple as that.

If that makes irc/mirc archaic, then so be it. There's really no point in trying to update the irc protocol to include features it was not designed for, it would probably be a haphazard patchwork and would most likely suck. So if you want the "cool" new features, use MSN/AIM/whatever, and leave the boring old irc for us as it is. smile


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Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123282
28/06/05 08:19 AM
28/06/05 08:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,009
Green Hill Zone
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*general reply*

it is pointless to argue about this because at the end
it is still on khaled to decide not "us" :tongue:


IceCapped
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123283
28/06/05 12:51 PM
28/06/05 12:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
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Riamus2 Offline
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Yes, I wasn't saying Trillian was a good alternative to mIRC. As far as I'm concerned, there is no alternative to mIRC. I just mentioned it as being the first one I could think of with all those things available to it.


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Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123284
28/06/05 04:01 PM
28/06/05 04:01 PM
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tidy_trax Offline
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Why do you automatically associate audio and video with IM clients? IM clients are not the only pieces of software that implement audio and video chats you know...


New username: hixxy
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123285
28/06/05 05:01 PM
28/06/05 05:01 PM
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landonsandor Offline
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No they're not, they're just the most popular. It's the same thing with smilies... people see others asking for it and they say to themselves (we know this to be true from posts here), "I dont want mirc turning into MSN". Why do they say that? Because MSN (and the like) are "second generation" chat programs; they have a newer interface, features, protocal, etc and this new chatting option has the ability to use smilies (video and voice too). If you'll notice the trend in chatting, those that are NOT strictly IRC based clients tend to have all those other options people want. IF that's the case, then you have 2 choices: 1) IRC 2) IM and since IRC is not IM, they see it as a bad progression. Unfortunately, people see, video, voice and smilies as a thing MOSTLY associated with IM programs and dont want mirc to turn into another damned IM program.

Let's flip this the other way tho. Why DONT other people see a difference between IM and IRC? Because these days IMs are emulating IRC more and more by offering rooms to chat in. It makes it confusing where the line is drawn between IRC and IM. People see IM as the "2nd generation" IRC which it isnt but they feel that if it's the "natural progression", then they want mirc to have all the same features they're other "IRC" programs have


Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123286
28/06/05 05:21 PM
28/06/05 05:21 PM
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Leuven, Belgium
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Quote:
Let's flip this the other way tho. Why DONT other people see a difference between IM and IRC?

The answer is simple: this discussion is about mIRC having these new features like audio/video, not IRC. Knowing this, we'll change the question to: why don't people see a difference between an IM client like MSN Messenger and mIRC. The answer: they do, and adding video support isn't going to make mIRC look one bit more like MSN. Why? Because mIRC is designed in a totally different way than MSN is. The look, feel, usage etc. are totally different.

People are focusing on the wrong thing here: you people seem to be very worried about what mIRC will look like... what makes you think mIRC will look more like an IM client becuase it has video support?
If video support were incorporated in an mIRC kind of way, that is not flashy, robust, and generally the same way mIRC looks, would you be so against it?

Don't you think you look unique compared to your friends? And they all are unique, because of their full set of traits, characteristics, looks, behaviours? Yes, they all have a nose, legs, arms, a brain (well some do), yet you don't treat them as being all the same person, or feel that they are the same people, right?

Why is it so horrible if mIRC would have support for some features which can also be found in IM clients? It'll still be mIRC, just like you are still you, even if you gain a couple of pounds, or lose a couple of pounds.

Unless there are drastic changes in mIRC's GUI and way of handling (you undergo plastic surgery and come out looking and feeling like a girl instead of the boy that you were), and the functionality has totally shifted from the client that it is today, then it will always be mIRC and only mIRC, audio/video support or not. Only if IRC would be completely cut out of the picture, then mIRC would have lost it's original purpose of providing users with a client to connect to IRC servers.

Btw why are we even talking in this forum? We should all connect our mIRC to IRC and continue the conversation there! laugh


Gone.
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123287
28/06/05 06:53 PM
28/06/05 06:53 PM
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Norwich, UK
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starbucks_mafia Offline
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As has been mentioned dozens of times in the thread already, the IRC protocol would not need to be changed one bit. The actual chats take place via DCC, not IRC. Whether mIRC supports it or not, video and audio chat is already taking place over DCC and has been for quite some time. For the users of those clients which do support it I don't think you'd find many/any who'd say it's "ruined" IRC - clearly it hasn't affected you that much, you don't seem to realise it's already available to many people.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123288
28/06/05 07:22 PM
28/06/05 07:22 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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So use one of those clients. ;p


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Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123289
28/06/05 08:49 PM
28/06/05 08:49 PM
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landonsandor Offline
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I dont think it's really an appearance issue that's the problem as it is the feel. If mirc were to change the TITLE (not functionality) of the Notify List to Buddy list, it would all of a sudden give mirc a certain weird IM feel to the program that Im sure would leave a weird taste in some people's mouths (yes I know you cant please all the people all the time). I think some people would feel betrayed. I might be wrong, and that's quite alright; I dont have to be right.


Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123290
28/06/05 08:57 PM
28/06/05 08:57 PM
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Riamus2 Offline
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Heh. I always hated the term "buddy list" ... friends list, okay... but not "buddy" list. It just sounds like some 13 year old title. It is rather interesting that most skins you find for various apps are also made by teens (usually younger teens), other than the "official" skins released by sites of course.


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Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123291
28/06/05 09:13 PM
28/06/05 09:13 PM
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UK
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tomalak16 Offline
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Quote:
Heh. I always hated the term "buddy list" ... friends list, okay... but not "buddy" list. It just sounds like some 13 year old title.


It's very Microsoft. Typical corporations trying to be hip whilst they leech all your hard-earned cash for crap. smile


<Ingo> I can't uninstall it, there seems to be some kind of "Uninstall Shield"
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123292
28/06/05 09:48 PM
28/06/05 09:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 681
Your dreams ;)
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mIRCManiac Offline
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Your dreams ;)
I've already said before that I wouldn't be against A/V chat
being added as plugins, why couldn't that be done? SSL
was added that way. That way, if we don't want A/V chat,
there would be no trace of it in the GUI as long as the plugin
isn't installed. As far as mIRC still being mIRC, yes you're right,
but adding some of this stuff will just move it that much
closer to the "Crayola Chat Interface" clients that be, MSN,
YIM, AIM, as landonsandor so well put it. They all took these
steps, adding these features, one of them would add the
smileys, the rest would follow, one would add A/V, the rest
would follow, that's how they all came to appear basically
exactly the same. Yes mIRC will still be an IRC client if this
stuff is added, but it just takes it one step closer to the others.
Eventually it will be just the next house added on the street
of cookie cutter houses and that will be a great shame IMO.

Last edited by mIRCManiac; 28/06/05 10:02 PM.

mIRCManiac
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123293
29/06/05 04:28 AM
29/06/05 04:28 AM
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landonsandor Offline
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I've already said before that I wouldn't be against A/V chat being added as plugins, why couldn't that be done? SSL was added that way. That way, if we don't want A/V chat, there would be no trace of it in the GUI as long as the plugin isn't installed.

Great idea that would prolly please most people cause 1) simple to install 2) if you dont install it, it's not in it


Those who fail history are doomed to repeat it
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123294
29/06/05 06:02 PM
29/06/05 06:02 PM
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starbucks_mafia Offline
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So mIRC shouldn't add features even if they're worthwhile simply because an IM has them aswell? "Let's stop mIRC from becoming better so it's not like IM clients" - what a backwards way of thinking.


Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123295
29/06/05 07:18 PM
29/06/05 07:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 681
Your dreams ;)
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mIRCManiac Offline
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Your dreams ;)
Being opposed to a suggested feature is backward thinking?
My reasons for being opposed are irrelevant. I've said in other
threads on this subject that adding these things would not
cause me to move on to another client, well, adding the A/V
wouldn't, adding the smileys and avatars and stuff might lol.


mIRCManiac
Re: Something LONG overdue!! #123296
29/06/05 11:16 PM
29/06/05 11:16 PM
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tomalak16 Offline
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Quote:
So mIRC shouldn't add features even if they're worthwhile simply because an IM has them aswell? "Let's stop mIRC from becoming better so it's not like IM clients" - what a backwards way of thinking.


I think what some people were saying was that adding such features would make mIRC worse, not better. :P

^ Interpretation rather than opinion.


<Ingo> I can't uninstall it, there seems to be some kind of "Uninstall Shield"
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