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#104376 - 02/12/04 05:20 PM New nicklist features
Nomadic_Prophet Offline
Ameglian cow

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 35
Instead of having people change their nicks to reflect their away status, why not have their nick on the nicklist become italicized when they are away? I think that will help especially when you go on IRC networks that have really short nicklenght limits and it will save you that task of switching you nick back and forth alll the time. I have seen this feature on another IRC client.

Also, would it be possible to allow for nicks in the address book to include other modification options such as BOLD? This could add another option for us to differentiate the nicks on the nicklist from each other besides color.

Thanks,

Nomadic_Prophet
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#104377 - 02/12/04 07:17 PM Re: New nicklist features
Danthemandoo Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 457
Loc: Behind you
its a nice idea but its practically impossible. mIRC would have to /who everyone in the channel regulary to find out their away status and on some networks that would get u disconnected.

Unless all mIRC clients, for example, going into away made a ctcp to the channel marking their away status but i don't think channel owners would appreciate having people ctcp'ing the channel every time they go away or come back.

[Edit] Added the words "for example"


Edited by Danthemandoo (02/12/04 08:19 PM)

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#104378 - 02/12/04 07:22 PM Re: New nicklist features
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 2962
Loc: Norwich, UK
Which other IRC client implemented that? There's no notification of when someone sets themelves away or back so the only way for a client to tell is to continuously 'ask' the server using /who requests. Besides being messy, it'd also be a very considerable -and most likely unwelcome- drain on any IRC server if 95% of the users suddenly stat sending /who requests for every channel they're on every few seconds.

The only way that such a thing would become feasible is if it were implemented on the server side via some kind of notification of changes in a user's status.
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#104379 - 02/12/04 11:21 PM Re: New nicklist features
DekuHaze Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 28/06/03
Posts: 384
Xchat has user status checking. It colours users who are away in a shade of grey, though I don't know how it goes about performing this check.

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#104380 - 02/12/04 11:46 PM Re: New nicklist features
Danthemandoo Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 457
Loc: Behind you
using a packet sniffer i found that xchat just does a /who $chan when it joins a channel, does a /whois on someone who changes nick, and /who's the channel every 60 seconds.

Which means that overall, it is a REALLY bad client from the servers point of view because it uses a LOT of bandwidth to achieve nothing.


Edited by Danthemandoo (02/12/04 11:52 PM)

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#104381 - 03/12/04 01:08 AM Re: New nicklist features
Nomadic_Prophet Offline
Ameglian cow

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 35
Quote:
Which other IRC client implemented that? There's no notification of when someone sets themelves away or back so the only way for a client to tell is to continuously 'ask' the server using /who requests. Besides being messy, it'd also be a very considerable -and most likely unwelcome- drain on any IRC server if 95% of the users suddenly stat sending /who requests for every channel they're on every few seconds.

The only way that such a thing would become feasible is if it were implemented on the server side via some kind of notification of changes in a user's status.


I think it was Chatzilla, but XChat has the away feature as well, if I am not mistaken. They have some pretty cool features that would be cool to have in mIRC like making links look like links, and when a person talks for more than one line the nick is not repeated on each line, just the first. Also a status bar that shows IP addresses when you point at a nick, etc., etc.

I am not sure how the away thing works, regarding your /who point, but it works and I doubt it would have been put into an IRC client if it would be an inconvenience, but I could be wrong.
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#104382 - 03/12/04 08:29 AM Re: New nicklist features
sparta Offline
Planetary brain

Registered: 22/02/03
Posts: 3432
Loc: Sweden/Borlänge
I dont know what network you are on, but the ones im on the users often only set them self away, no need to change nick for it.. and the most users have a away script of some type, that means that they often sends a notice to the person that he/she are just away, but i shouldent nag to much about this, my sheme coloring the away nick as the user want it to.. default away people is blue.. smile but as said befor it using /who #channel . and this cosing mirc to lag from time to time, and i would hate to see a clean mirc lag like that. so i dont think it will be included in mirc..
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#104383 - 03/12/04 11:36 AM Re: New nicklist features
landonsandor Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1527
Loc: state of confusion
actually it COULD be done somewhat. mirc can already color nicknames who are idle in the channel a separate color and as far as I know it doesnt whois them at all to find this out.
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#104384 - 03/12/04 01:05 PM Re: New nicklist features
Zonk Offline
Babel fish

Registered: 27/01/03
Posts: 53
$nick(#,<nick/N>).idle...
it doesnt check their idle time in general, just in the chan..

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#104385 - 03/12/04 03:38 PM Re: New nicklist features
Nomadic_Prophet Offline
Ameglian cow

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 35
Hmm, maybe it was idle and not away that I was seeing in the nicklist. I did not even think of that.

Anyhow, it is nonsense that this will be a burden in the IRC servers or affect the performance or the IRC client. Many people use the IRC client and it would have been a known issue if it affected server performance and on the client side. I have tried these clients and the have these features and I know that it does not affect their performance, So I don't know what people are basing that assumption on.

Thanks for the feedback.
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#104386 - 03/12/04 04:45 PM Re: New nicklist features
landonsandor Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 1527
Loc: state of confusion
Yes I know that. I was offering up an alternative solution in the meantime.
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#104387 - 03/12/04 08:16 PM Re: New nicklist features
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 2962
Loc: Norwich, UK
Quote:
Anyhow, it is nonsense that this will be a burden in the IRC servers or affect the performance or the IRC client.

- It's not nonsense, you're just not thinking this through. Chatzilla and XChat combined probably account for around 1-2% of users on any IRC network at a given time, the proportion of mIRC users would be around 90-95%. That's a massive difference in how each one's traffic usage affects an IRC server.
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#104388 - 04/12/04 12:27 AM Re: New nicklist features
Hrung Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 30/12/02
Posts: 208
From a few quick tests I conducted, the /who # reply for a channel of 10 users averages to be around 1 KB, give or take. that doesn't sound like much when you're only doing it once per minute, but say 60 people do it that often.. that averages out to 1KB/s extra load to the server. 6000 people doing it would come to an extra 100KB/s, but that's assuming that everyone is in only one channel, and that their channel is relatively small. It doesn't seem like much when only one person does it, but if you add up everyone doing it, you will probably end up increasing each server's load by an amount in the MB/s range. Additionally, each time a client requests that information, it takes CPU cycles for the server to determine the replies. It adds up quickly.

With mirc holding the vast majority of the irc client market, changes like this would affect everyone, so Khaled has to be more careful than the authors of most other clients. It sounds like a nice feature in theory, but in practice, it's an evil abomination that should not see the light of day.

Just one man's opinion
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#104389 - 04/12/04 03:19 AM Re: New nicklist features
Nomadic_Prophet Offline
Ameglian cow

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 35
Well, I guess some servers will be screwed then if a lot of people start using these other clients.
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#104390 - 04/12/04 07:58 AM Re: New nicklist features
DaveC Offline
Planetary brain

Registered: 26/09/03
Posts: 4230
Quote:
Well, I guess some servers will be screwed then if a lot of people start using these other clients.


Im sure the airlines would be rather screwed if everybody started shipping & traveling by boat...... but I know thats not gonna happen either is it.

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#104391 - 04/12/04 02:04 PM Re: New nicklist features
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 2962
Loc: Norwich, UK
If by some bizarre event one or both of those clients gained a massive portion of the IRC user clientele then many servers would probably be forced to put restrictions on /who, either by ignoring more than x requests per user per hour, or even putting a vey low tolerance on what was considered 'flooding' when using /who. They might even have to limit the number of people using those particular clients, perhaps block them entirely. Ultimately this would mean that those clients would either have to drop or severely limit support of this feature to being practically useless, or otherwise face their users being banned from the majority of IRC servers.
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#104392 - 04/12/04 03:39 PM Re: New nicklist features
Nomadic_Prophet Offline
Ameglian cow

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 35
Geez, I was being sarcastic. It was just an idea, I may not even be right about the feature being related to being away, but instead just idle.

This sort of feature would probably have to run on the server side. Maybe in the form of a list of all the nicks in the channel and along with each their away or idle status. Then the status of the nicks could be checked when you join the channel (if the mode is already set) or one signal set to the nicks in the channel once, when the mode is set/removed. I don't think this has to be a sort of thing where a client should have to be checking status every so many seconds.

Anyway, this would not be something that mIRC could do, but for the sake of the disussion, that was just what I pictured. I could be wrong though about how much even this method would affect the servers.

Thanks for the feedback all. At least I know now that it probably can't be done. At least with mIRC...

Thanks
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#104393 - 04/12/04 07:24 PM Re: New nicklist features
qwerty Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 2523
You're either confused or confusing :tongue:

Quote:
[...] or one signal set to the nicks in the channel once, when the mode is set/removed.
I agree, this is the way it should be: the servers will have to work this way, ie send a notification when a nick changes their away status. mIRC cannot do anything towards that direction until servers support it.


Quote:
I don't think this has to be a sort of thing where a client should have to be checking status every so many seconds.
This is exactly what x-chat (and other clients) currently do to 'implement' this feature.


Quote:
At least with mIRC...
No, "at least" isn't correct. You have to understand, if you haven't already, that:
1) this isn't a mIRC limitation
2) other clients that keep track of users' away status do a /who every X seconds. They don't use some sort of server-side notification feature, simply because it doesn't exist (yet).
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#104394 - 04/12/04 11:31 PM Re: New nicklist features
starbucks_mafia Offline
Hoopy frood

Registered: 09/12/02
Posts: 2962
Loc: Norwich, UK
Presumably when he says 'At least with mIRC...' he means that mIRC's popularity makes it stand out as perhaps the only client which cannot implement the /who method since no other client's userbase would be large enough to create an issue. Of course it is still possible with mIRC using a simple script.

As for away notification in general, even a server-side implementation could be problematic as a means of abuse. It would effectively give a single user the ability to send something to every user they share a channel with. That's the kind of thing flooders and DoS'ers dream of.
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#104395 - 05/12/04 04:52 AM Re: New nicklist features
IR_n00b Offline
Fjord artisan

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 200
Loc: where i am.
The easies way to do this is to make the server send a message to all the IRC clents when someone marks themselves as away

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